Second hand games and the industry -

OANST · #31 04-03-2012, 07:22 AM

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You're mixing arguments there. In the game industry it's the publishers who claim to be struggling and who are complaining about reselling. In the book industry, the publishers are thriving in spite of - and probably because of - the rise of e-books and online retailing. That the retail stores are struggling is neither here nor there.

I realized that early in, and decided to make this a conversation about how the entire system is flawed. Even if I was the only one having that conversation.

Nepsotic · #32 04-03-2012, 07:27 AM

Online distribution has sky rocketed in the past few years; most companies are benefitting from it.

Daxter King · #33 04-03-2012, 08:46 AM

Online distribution also pretty much surfaced on the console side in the last few years, of course the sales of something sly rockets when it exists compared to previously not existing.

Nepsotic · #34 04-03-2012, 08:48 AM

What? It's been going for quite a while now.

Daxter King · #35 04-03-2012, 08:52 AM

Eh, six years really. I'd also like to know where you got skyrocketibg from. Latest that I heard is that DD is going down on the 360.

Mac Sirloin · #36 04-03-2012, 09:16 AM

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Eh, six years really. I'd also like to know where you got skyrocketibg from. Latest that I heard is that DD is going down on the 360.

Probably because people are sick of Microsoft yanking game out from under them because they don't own the rights anymore. I spent 100$+ on Xbox Originals games that were deleted from my HD because MS simply stopped offering that service. This is why I buy used games. Smart companies operate with the 'original copy of the game comes with one-use code' for online and other shenanigans. If you don't have that code, you can buy one. Easy peasy. Any game publisher that gets behind shit like SOPA (because some have) or whine about used games hurting their sales are not flexible enough or just stupid.

Domineering shit like DRM is even worse. Whereas a human being physically picking up a game and shelling out for it is a pretty binary operation, DRM is overbearing, complicated and prone to some pretty debillitating errors.

The whole thing is fucking stupid. Used games forever.

Nepsotic · #37 04-03-2012, 10:49 AM

Yeah, i've heard about that code. Its stupid, they can try all they want but people will always find ways of getting round stuff like that.

Daxter King · #38 04-03-2012, 12:08 PM

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Probably because people are sick of Microsoft yanking game out from under them because they don't own the rights anymore. I spent 100$+ on Xbox Originals games that were deleted from my HD because MS simply stopped offering that service. This is why I buy used games. Smart companies operate with the 'original copy of the game comes with one-use code' for online and other shenanigans. If you don't have that code, you can buy one. Easy peasy. Any game publisher that gets behind shit like SOPA (because some have) or whine about used games hurting their sales are not flexible enough or just stupid.

Domineering shit like DRM is even worse. Whereas a human being physically picking up a game and shelling out for it is a pretty binary operation, DRM is overbearing, complicated and prone to some pretty debillitating errors.

The whole thing is fucking stupid. Used games forever.

Unless Canada has some fucked up shit with their copyright laws, the example you used is a flat out lie. You can always redownload something if you have previously bought it, even things MS lost the rights to. Xbox originals is also still up and I used the Xbox as an example since it has the highest attach rate of the consoles, not because of online policy.

Havoc · #39 04-03-2012, 12:11 PM

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Yeah, i've heard about that code. Its stupid, they can try all they want but people will always find ways of getting round stuff like that.

Not really. Multiplayer is pretty much boarded up against pirates these days because you always need a login name that is tied to a legit serial code. There is no real way of bypassing that system, which is why publishers are trying to make it a standard for singleplayer as well.

Mac Sirloin · #40 04-03-2012, 12:25 PM

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Unless Canada has some fucked up shit with their copyright laws, the example you used is a flat out lie. You can always redownload something if you have previously bought it, even things MS lost the rights to. Xbox originals is also still up and I used the Xbox as an example since it has the highest attach rate of the consoles, not because of online policy.

Honest to goodness, it absolutely happened. I had Psychonatus, GTA: SA and...some game. All of them just disappeared overnight, while my 360 was plugged in. The core files were still there, that is, the 7GB of Xbox originals, but inacessble and no option to download them again. I tried about a dozen times over the course of a month, gave up and deleted the files. I am still pissed, vaguely.

Manco · #41 04-03-2012, 12:44 PM

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Honest to goodness, it absolutely happened. I had Psychonatus, GTA: SA and...some game. All of them just disappeared overnight, while my 360 was plugged in. The core files were still there, that is, the 7GB of Xbox originals, but inacessble and no option to download them again. I tried about a dozen times over the course of a month, gave up and deleted the files. I am still pissed, vaguely.

have you tried the Web store? http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Pr...5-d8024d4a07d2

MeechMunchie · #42 04-03-2012, 12:47 PM

That is absolutely bloody outrageous. Do you know other people it's happened to? If you can get enough of them together you'll have a bit more weight behind your complaint. And you should complain.

I remember last month PC Gamer ran an article on digital distribution licenses, and explained how no-one actually owned games they'd bought from digital distribution sites; Rather they had payed for access to the service's license, access which the service was able to revoke whenever they chose. The Steam EULA actually went as far as to explicitly say "this license does not infer any ownership by the customer" or similar.

Now, this may be something everyone has agreed to, knowingly or not, but there is such a thing as a unfair contract. It is fully within your rights to speak out against such abuse of a legal convention that was supposed to enforce truth and honour.

Daxter King · #43 04-03-2012, 01:01 PM

Mac's is the only instance I've ever heard of this happening, ever.

OANST · #44 04-03-2012, 01:20 PM

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Honest to goodness, it absolutely happened. I had Psychonatus, GTA: SA and...some game. All of them just disappeared overnight, while my 360 was plugged in. The core files were still there, that is, the 7GB of Xbox originals, but inacessble and no option to download them again. I tried about a dozen times over the course of a month, gave up and deleted the files. I am still pissed, vaguely.

You have to go to your download history. You can redownload them from there. I had to do the same thing with Psychonauts.

Mac Sirloin · #45 04-03-2012, 01:27 PM

Oh.

Well they should have left a note or something.

OANST · #46 04-03-2012, 01:30 PM

They give absolutely no instructions on how to do it.

MeechMunchie · #47 04-03-2012, 02:40 PM

Oh. That's rather less outrageous. It's not very helpful, but then that's a Microsoft trademark.

Well. ... This pen. This pen is pretty damn outrageous. Doesn't work. *Scribble scribble* See?

Michael · #48 04-05-2012, 09:09 AM

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£1. Since nobody asked. They bought the entire company, thats 2 shop branches, for 100 pennies. Unbelievable.

Would've replied but only just noticed the thread had been split and moved. I was going to say something low like that. The electrical store Comet was bought from administration for 20p recently.

It sounds crazy, but bear in mind that whoever bought it, even for that low price, is picking up their tonne of debt with the purchase. It is the buyers responsibility now to try and clear all of that debt, and on top of that, turn the tarnished public image of the store around and start making a profit again. Pretty monumental task! If they fail, they're millions down due to the money they'll need to find to pay back whoever's owed.

Nepsotic · #49 04-10-2012, 07:28 AM

hopefully now that they've been bought, they'll start stocking new EA games again. I Don't know the ins and outs of it, but apparently, game said "we want (Blah blah blah)" And it was a stupid ask, and EA were like "no way!" So then game was all "Fine then, we're not stocking your new games." I'm not that arsed to be honest, Mass Effect doesn't interest me.

AlexFili · #50 04-10-2012, 08:52 AM

I like holding games, but I like discounts. I would buy more games online if my internet connection was faster. As it is, it takes me several days to download Portal 2.

Crashpunk · #51 04-11-2012, 03:33 AM

I'm always going to love actually holding a game cart or disc over downloads. However It is easier to buy a game off steam and we'll have to get used to it. Retail games won't be around for much longer in my opinion.

Nepsotic · #52 04-14-2012, 07:17 AM

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I'm always going to love actually holding a game cart or disc over downloads. However It is easier to buy a game off steam and we'll have to get used to it. Retail games won't be around for much longer in my opinion.

as much as i don't like it, i agree. man, the next few years are gonna be hell for me as i don't have internet at home or xbox live

Daxter King · #53 04-14-2012, 01:25 PM

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I'm always going to love actually holding a game cart or disc over downloads. However It is easier to buy a game off steam and we'll have to get used to it. Retail games won't be around for much longer in my opinion.

Well it's a good thing your opinion is incorrect.

Havoc · #54 04-15-2012, 02:36 AM

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Well it's a good thing your opinion is incorrect.

How can an opinion be incorrect?

I've gotta say, I've outgrown the whole 'want to be able to hold box and disc' thing, unless it's a special edition. Those go on display in my living room above the X-box boxes. All my PC games are piled up somewhere in my PC room, but I can't honestly say I laid eyes on any of them in months, much less picked them up or opened them. Steam is a real life changer in that aspect. I bought pretty much any major PC game trough DD the last few years.

MeechMunchie · #55 04-15-2012, 04:58 AM

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How can an opinion be incorrect?

If it's poorly informed.

Not that Crashpunk's is.

Varrok · #56 04-15-2012, 05:04 AM

It's unlikely that boxes are gonna disappear soon. Digital distribution came some time ago and despite its popularity there are still box versions of almost every game

AlexFili · #57 04-15-2012, 06:34 AM

Until internet speeds improve in the smaller cities, digital downloads are not a viable replacement for discs.

Wings of Fire · #58 04-15-2012, 06:46 AM

You say that, but I have a download speed of 1mb/s in my smallish hometown of 50,000 people. That's more than enough to download a game overnight.

Manco · #59 04-15-2012, 07:20 AM

What about two games? Or three?

Buying a physical game is a trip to the store. Downloading a major title can take upwards of a day in some cases.

***Nate*** · #60 04-15-2012, 07:26 AM

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What about two games? Or three?

Buying a physical game is a trip to the store. Downloading a major title can take upwards of a day in some cases.

Trips to the areas where video games stores exist are a once a week event for me at best. Generally far more rarely than that. Leaving it to download overnight is not really an issue in comparison.

Are you really so impatient that you must be able to play a game the instant you decide to purchase it? I'm amazed you're able to hold on long enough to get home from the store without ODing from anticipation.