Gingers and prejudice.

[STM]

One of my good mates is actually a ginger, thing is he's huge so if anyone generally wanted to rip into him when it goes beyond banter, he'd probably batter their face in. So yeah, do that.

[Jordan]

Do you think this talk about ginger people calls for a thread about prejudices? I find it an interesting subject and the last thing Wil wants is his thread shit on by a subject that clearly makes him uncomfortable.

[Wil]

Well, that's a miss, cause I actually was the subject of others' jokes for a long while (like... hmm... about 5-6 years in school - ok, it's not a lifelong, but definitetly some) and I realised that I cared way too much about that. When I recall that period of my life I can't believe how much of an idiot I was

If your way of coping with being the subject of demeaning mockery is to stop caring about it, or play along with it, then cool. Good for you. Not everyone can do that. You don't get to pick and choose what you're offended by. You do get to choose whether to insult people or not, or whether to stand up for them or let shit slide.

Without knowing why you were being made fun of, you were not in the wrong to be upset by being mocked for no good reason. It's your antagonists who were being improper, and they're the only ones who should ideally chance their behaviour.

I think that intent is pretty important. If it's good natured ribbing, I don't really see the issue.

I don't disagree per se, but good natured ribbing can only happen when you're talking about individuals who you know are OK with it.

I'm talking about joking and you're mostly talking about bullying under the pretext of joking. The second thing is caused by people being idiots/A-holes, not by jokes themselves. We didn't bully anyone in this thread...

No, but anyone reading this thread (which is, of course, public) has the right to be offended by your joke. Even if you mean it comically and not literally, and even if it's reasonable to expect anyone to realize that, it does not make it good natured. The context here is pretty clear: non-red-headed people deriving humour from a blanket statement about red-headed people.

...and why don't you react that way when someone is called a faggot? It's basically the same.

The circumstances are different in that there a number of people on the Forums who are OK with that, and who I know are OK with that. If I saw it being directed inappropriately - to someone who wasn't OK with it, or in a genuinely disparaging way - I would take action. And if I haven't done so in the past, well, like I say, it's only very recently that I've decided to sensitize myself to this kind of thing.

I need to split this thread.

[Varrok]

You're saying that people might get offended by "my" ginger joke, and yet you're judging that calling sbd "a faggot" is ok, because some users you know accept that.
But, as you said, it's a public thread, so anyone can read this. Some guest users as well (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know which forums are viewable by guests). You can't simply know each one's opinion about it. And they might not want to create an account just to say they're offended but leave forums forever or sth. When you start thinking about every single person who's lacking a distance towards himself, you can't really make any joke. It simply leads to the loss of humour, I don't approve that

To be clear: If I saw any person who felt sad or offended because he didn't get my joke, I wouldn't laugh at him more, but try to correct the situation. But in that situation, there are really no offended ppl... well, except you... but you're not gingers afaik so it doesn't count... Why making a problem, when there's none?

I have nothing against splitting thread

[Nate]

*thread split*

[STM]

Okay look here goes, because all in all this is what it boils down to *prepare for rant*:

We live in a democratic western society were freedom of speech is common place. People have the right to say whatever they want without fear of consequence, no matter what it is they are saying. As people made clear in the Burschenschaft thread, you cannot discriminate between who gets to speak and who doesn't because then the lines become increasingly blurred. Furthermore, because of this people will no doubt be offended by some of things people say. The point is, who gives a flying fuck whether or not you are offended by what people say? Why should I care whether a person with red hair gets offended because I call them 'ginger'? Being offended doesn't affect you physically at all? When I Was a strong Catholic I used to be offended all the time by how people used God's name in vain and the sort. What did I do? I got on with my life. People should get on with their lives and stop taking jokes too seriously.

[enchilado]

i bet you ginger-haters have brown hair. fuckin poopheads

[JennyGenesis]

I had the misfortune of suffering through the whole ginger thing in school, but it originated from The Catherine Tate Show (which I thought was rubbish by the way) who did an entire sketch taking the piss out of ginger haired people.

Since I've left school though and gone out and made new friends, people actually find it an attractive part of me.

[MeechMunchie]

Since I've left school though and gone out and made new friends, people actually find it an attractive part of me.

Apparently it's big in Japan. Go there.

[STM]

Notably, Gingers can be hot too, so...it's not even like ginger jokes are very good for crying out loud.

[Wings of Fire]

I've been a victim of prejudice all my life. It's only funny if all parties involved are under a mutual understanding that they're not being serious.

Or if the comedian is really really good and takes the piss out of just about everything to the point that it ceases having any impact.

[Nate]

I had the misfortune of suffering through the whole ginger thing in school, but it originated from The Catherine Tate Show (which I thought was rubbish by the way) who did an entire sketch taking the piss out of ginger haired people.

Seriously not. That show didn't invent ginger humour; it was only reflecting the common perspectives on gingers. Prejudice against redheads has been going on for decades.

Okay look here goes, because all in all this is what it boils down to *prepare for rant*:

We live in a democratic western society were freedom of speech is common place. People have the right to say whatever they want without fear of consequence, no matter what it is they are saying. As people made clear in the Burschenschaft thread, you cannot discriminate between who gets to speak and who doesn't because then the lines become increasingly blurred. Furthermore, because of this people will no doubt be offended by some of things people say. The point is, who gives a flying fuck whether or not you are offended by what people say? Why should I care whether a person with red hair gets offended because I call them 'ginger'? Being offended doesn't affect you physically at all? When I Was a strong Catholic I used to be offended all the time by how people used God's name in vain and the sort. What did I do? I got on with my life. People should get on with their lives and stop taking jokes too seriously.

No-one has suggested that anti-ginger talk should be made illegal. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a good idea, or even an ethical thing to do.

[STM]

Are we really saying that 'haha your hair is ginger' is unethical?

[Dixanadu]

Ginger here.

I think I am somewhat of a half-breed. I don't have freckles, and my hair has somewhat darkened over the space of a decade. My aul boy was ginger, then by his late 20s, had gone into a dark brown/almost black colour.

I'm never offended or self-conscious when mocked for my hair, because...well, it's just hair. Anyone who gets offended is a cunt who should be removed from existence for not getting a joke. Ridg3 frequently pokes fun at it, while I make fun of his less-than perfect sight.

[Strike Witch]

Apparently it's big in Japan. Go there.

Any hair colour that isn't black is big in Japan.

In an "exotic animals" sense.

[Wings of Fire]

Are we really saying that 'haha your skin is black' is unethical?

Same basic premise?

[moxco]

No Wings, they're two totally different thing. There's a big difference between mocking someone for their melanin level and.. oh wait; never mind.

EDIT: To be fair there is a difference between ginger and black jokes. Black jokes are not taking the piss out of (with a few exceptions) the actual skin of a black person, but rather the problematic realities of black societies. On the other hand ginger jokes are based one nothingness; no one (who thinks they exist) really believes gingers are without souls.

That said I can still fully understand your dislike of ginger jokes, just as I could understand a blonde taking offence to blonde joke or a lawyer to a lawyer joke.

I've edited this so many times and am still not satisfied with how it's worded.

[Daxter King]

Or if the comedian is really really good and takes the piss out of just about everything to the point that it ceases having any impact.

Also, the premise of this thread is silly.

[Sekto Springs]

Anyone who gets offended is a cunt who should be removed from existence for not getting a joke.

It may be cruel, but this is kind of how I feel. I don't really have the empathetic capacity to be constantly aware of what may or may not hurt the feelings of those around me. That doesn't mean I toss words like "nigger" and "faggot" around carelessly. In the grand scheme of things, bigotry is everywhere, but certain bigotries simply do not have enough history to give them any weight. "Ginger" should be just as offensive to gingers as "honky" is to white people.

And just to clarify, I have not lived a life free of mockery/bullying. I had my ribs broken in high school by upperclassmen for reasons that make even less sense than hair color.


inb4dipstikkgetsallpreachyaboutequality

[Nate]

Are we really saying that 'haha your hair is ginger' is unethical?

Making other people uncomfortable for no good reason other than entertaining your own sick sense of humour is unethical, regardless of the means by which you do it.

[JennyGenesis]

Seriously not. That show didn't invent ginger humour; it was only reflecting the common perspectives on gingers. Prejudice against redheads has been going on for decades.

No, I meant that in school, people didn't start making fun of redheads until The Catherine Tate Show did a sketch on it.

[Crashpunk]

I did read the thread title right then. Why are we talking about gingers? Seriously..why?

[Jordan]

I think the jokes can only be funny to a certain extent. There's those that poke fun, but in good humour, and that's most likely the kind of fun that the person with red hair tends to accept and take with a pinch of salt. However, there are arseholes in the world who will bully and will literally harass people for having red hair. I read a news article recently saying this boy had to be removed from school for being bullied about his hair colour. That kind of thing is disgusting and shouldn't be tolerated. It's the people who take jokes way too far I hate more than those who can't take a joke.

[T-nex]

I don't really find controversial joke to be bad per se... I just hate when we have those idiots who take them seriously and then go on thinking that that's something to go by. Like people who take women-jokes seriously and use it as an excuse to be even more sexist. Or people who use these ginger-fads to bully them even more.

Like other people said, if all people know it's a joke, then it's harmless.
That's why I think fads like ginger-jokes are dangerous. Because if it becomes a world-wide thing, more people do it, and more people are affected.

But ginger-jokes have apparently been around for a very long time. I wonder why x_x

[Manco]

After browsing this thread and then thinking a little, I think I know what my stance on this is.

It’s really simple: I don’t make jokes regarding physical appearance (or other sensitive subjects) if I don’t know the audience well.

If the people you are telling a joke to are people that you know, and you know their sensibilities and their taste in humor, you probably know whether or not they would enjoy a joke about, say, ginger hair. You would know if they would be offended or take it seriously.

You wouldn’t tell an insensitive joke to the person sitting next to you on the bus. You might tell an insensitive joke to a close friend, if you and they both know that neither of you would actually take the joke seriously.

[STM]

I can't believe that there's a thread for the political and ethical stance on 'ginger jokes' but no one has even acknowledged issues like the US repeatedly invading Pakistani air space to kill civilians with drones or the government in Syria destroying their own people because they want democratic elections. Get some fucking perspective people and realise what matters and what doesn't.

[Wings of Fire]

Nobody is stopping you from making those threads.

[STM]

Okay, so shall I spam the forum with a Syria thread? a Pakistan thread? While I'm at it there are plenty, literally hundreds of world issues to choose from, my point being is that how does this work its way to the top of the pile?

[Manco]

Okay, so shall I spam the forum with a Syria thread? a Pakistan thread? While I'm at it there are plenty, literally hundreds of world issues to choose from, my point being is that how does this work its way to the top of the pile?

Because this is a discussion which started in another unrelated thread and turned out to attract a lot of attention?

This is a fucking internet forum, not a Nato meeting. We discuss things that interest us, not necessarily things that are important.

You want to discuss world issues exclusively? Fine, but fuck off to a world issues forum, don’t complain because some dudes on a video game website are talking about something you deem boring.

[T-nex]

Another thing is that important issues are discussed plenty on this forum. but it's not all we care about, and we don't wanna discuss heavy issues all the time. That gets stressful.


But people please, try and keep a civil tone. Don't let this turn into a flame war.