Who the f*ck is River Song?! (SPOILERS! Goddamn fucking spoilers)

[Wil]

Yeah, and how shitty was that carved star? Worst visual design ever. They've ruined the franchise.

[STM]

I think that the last episode was just a bit odd...what the fuck was claiming his debts about? And how to putting on a centurion suit make a cyberman tactical team scared/ not shoot you.

[enchilado]

Yeah, and how shitty was that carved star? Worst visual design ever. They've ruined the franchise.

As I'm fairly sure you know, but just in case you were being serious, that's not by far Doctor Who's worst visual design ever.

I enjoyed watching the episode, but looking back on it now there were number of things that didn't make sense. It made out that the Doctor claiming his debts was very epic, but he only claimed them from a couple of people. Why those people? Why was it called A Good Man Goes to War (and not only that but the phrase was repeated throughout the episode) when there wasn't even a damn war? Why were there two gay couples? Not that I'm against gay couples, of course, but having two of them in the first episode that ever had any is a bit weird.

How did Amy getting pregnant on the TARDIS make her baby a Time Lord? And why did Rory put on his fucking Roman outfit? River Song is Amy's fucking daughter? Jesus. That's disgusting. Gah. And so many other things.

The only thing that consoles me is the next episode being called Let's Kill Hitler!

[Bullet Magnet]

Well it made perfect sense to me.

[Wil]

The trouble is, it made perfect sense to me as soon as we learned Melody's name. It just made the last few minutes unbearably patronizing. Which is a shame, because River's slightly earlier talk to the Doctor should have carried so much more weight and gravitas.

[Crashpunk]

How did Amy getting pregnant on the TARDIS make her baby a Time Lord? And why did Rory put on his fucking Roman outfit? River Song is Amy's fucking daughter? Jesus. That's disgusting. Gah. And so many other things.

Doctor Who is turning into a Soap Opera.

Intergalactic Hollyoaks!

[enchilado]

Well it made perfect sense to me.

So why did Rory put on that outfit? A lot of people on the Gallifrey Base forums seem to think that A Good Man Goes to War is talking about Rory, and that's the 'good man' that River Song will kill.

[Bullet Magnet]

Obviously I can't know events that occur in my future. The viewer's timeline is as out of sync with Song's as the Doctor's.

I figured the Centurion outfit was for Rory's sake, and Amy's. Morale. That was how Rory was dressed when he was at his very best. Strangely, it also helps him to fit in with the doctor's army. When going to war surrounded by old allies from throughout past and future history any one would feel like a right melon dressed in 21st century casual wear. And it makes a twisted sort of sense for Rory to wear it, since it is part of his story.

It's alternate costume Rory, that can only be unlocked by completing the first season of Eleventh Doctor Who. It's his alter-ego, superhero costume. It is worn strictly for Serious Business. And bedroom role-play.

[Strike Witch]

Oh, so that's who River is.

Headless Monks were kind of pointless though.

[Bullet Magnet]

Now Silence in the Library is going to seem even weirder.

[Wil]

The only bit of the Library double parter I can see in a new light since all this River guff is the bit where the Doctor stops the Vashta from attacking but telling them who he is. That's the genuinely clever connection.

[Connell]

See I think Moffat stumbled a bit here. If I recall, at the end of Silence in the Library /Forest of the Dead the Doctor says to River something roughly along the lines of 'You whispered me my name. There's only one way you could know my name.' just before she dies. So surely the Doctor should have some idea who she is instead of being seemingly clueless about it for the next series and a half. And still, after it's revealed that River is Amy's daughter, how could that possibly be a reason for knowing the Doctor's name? Unless there's still some stuff to learn about River that will link back to this line. Or Moffat's cocked up and he'll try and forget it was ever written..

[enchilado]

Either 1) she read it off the side of his cot or 2) we don't know yet how she knows.

[Wil]

Well, unless definitely stated, two is true. But there's 3), real names must be used in a Gallifreyan wedding ceremony.

[Connell]

True, and to be fair the Doctor has always kind of figured out that him and River have a relationship at some point in his future, so I think that would tie in nicely. I've always imagined, as cheesy as it would be, that in the last episode of Doctor Who, the Doctor is god knows how old, and has a young granddaughter in his care, so decides to send her back to his younger self to care for her. I think with the way Moffat's heading with this we might just find out where Susan came from, and if she actually is his biological grandfather.

Questions, more questions and very few answers! Damn you Moffat, your cunning plots and clever twists always keep the viewer in anticipation of the next installment! Hats off to him though, he's returned the show to just how it should be.

[Phylum]

I don't give a fuck about running storylines. I want good episodes. More to the point, I want good villains.

[Nate]

The only bit of the Library double parter I can see in a new light since all this River guff is the bit where the Doctor stops the Vashta from attacking but telling them who he is. That's the genuinely clever connection.

I don't get the connection. Are you suggesting that the Vashta Narada came from the Gamma Forests?

I just think it was more of the Doctor's hubris that marked the end of his 10th incarnation and has occasionally popped up in the 11th.

[Strike Witch]

So did anybody else feel like the whole subplot with the guy and his husband and the headless monks was just kind of unimportant to the plot? They were just "there" and didn't add much at all.

[Phylum]

I've felt that about the whole season apart from the ganger episodes.

[Nate]

Are you suggesting that Doctor Who should only ever have ongoing plots and no Monster-Of-The-Weeks? This aint Lost, Phylum.

So did anybody else feel like the whole subplot with the guy and his husband and the headless monks was just kind of unimportant to the plot? They were just "there" and didn't add much at all.

Yeah, pretty much. I imagine the gay thing was the give some characterisation to the guy so that we'd feel bad when he died. As for the monks; probably they were just generic enemies, but maybe they have some deep-seated reason for hating The Doctor that will be explained in future episodes.


Rewatching bits of the episode, I love the lines:

"He's not a warrior."
"Then why is he called 'The Doctor'?"

They only make sense after you've seen River's speech at the end.

[enchilado]

I think it was to show that these people can't be all bad since they allow gay marriage.

EDIT (Nate posted):

I think you misunderstood Phylum's post.

As for those lines... the Doctor went to the Gamma Forests and they took his name as a word for 'warrior'. And then she asks why, if he's not a warrior, he's called the Doctor. That makes no sense.

[Nate]

I think you misunderstood Phylum's post.

How?

As for those lines... the Doctor went to the Gamma Forests and they took his name as a word for 'warrior'. And then she asks why, if he's not a warrior, he's called the Doctor. That makes no sense.

Makes perfect sense to me. She doesn't know that their word 'Doctor' (meaning 'warrior') came from him, just as Amy and Rory weren't aware (until River told them) that the word 'Doctor' on Earth came to mean 'healer' because of his visits. As far as Lorna is aware, he chose the name to reflect himself.

It's like if you met an alien who called himself The Soldier. You'd make some assumptions about what he's like too.

[Phylum]

I don't give a fuck about running storylines. I want good episodes. More to the point, I want good villains.

Read it again.

You misunderstood it by getting the exact opposite of what I said.

[enchilado]

I guess the time he met Lorna probably wasn't his first visit to the Gamma Forests. If it had have been, though, it wouldn't have made sense that the word entered their language so quickly and that Lorna didn't know it came from him.

As to misunderstanding Phylum's post, I assumed you were replying to this one:

I don't give a fuck about running storylines. I want good episodes. More to the point, I want good villains.

EDIT: Phylum posted. But yeah. Same thing.

[Nate]

No, I was replying to the one where he replied to SW, saying that he'd felt that the entire series (other than the ganger episodes) "were just "there" and didn't add much at all". And I questioned why he felt episodes needed to add anything.

As for the post that both you and Phylum quoted... I'd read that on a previous visit to OWF, so I'd forgotten it by the time I read the one immediately above my post.

[Bullet Magnet]

Rewatching bits of the episode, I love the lines:

"He's not a warrior."
"Then why is he called 'The Doctor'?"

They only make sense after you've seen River's speech at the end.

Really? It made sense straight away to me, but I missed the part about the English word having the same origin.

Bit of a paradox there (or rather, stable loop), considering that the Tardis translated "Doctor" into the equivalent in all those other Earth languages and in doing so invented them in the first place. It seems therefore that the Doctor was actually named by the Tardis.

[Wil]

I don't get the connection. Are you suggesting that the Vashta Narada came from the Gamma Forests?

It's happening all over. The Gamma Forests was just a convenient example of River's point.

[LDG519]

I guess the time he met Lorna probably wasn't his first visit to the Gamma Forests. If it had have been, though, it wouldn't have made sense that the word entered their language so quickly and that Lorna didn't know it came from him.

As to misunderstanding Phylum's post, I assumed you were replying to this one:



EDIT: Phylum posted. But yeah. Same thing.

who is Lorna

[enchilado]

Lorna Bucket (the BUCKET carries the water from the RIVER to the POND, see? Or something) is the soldier chick from the Gamma Forests who embroidered the prayer leaf for Melody.

[Wil]

It's pronounced BOUQUET.