Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark

[Dixanadu]

Guys, please.

We can all agree I'm the closest thing to God there is.

[Havoc]

I'll take reproducible scientific results over the stories in just another random book written thousands of years ago, any day.

And since Alcar, Nate and Max took the liberty of dealing with STM and thus stealing my job, I'll just leave it at that.

[Rex Tirano]

Everyone seems to be ganging up on STM. Unfairly so, I think. Despite some of his arguments being a little... Ridiculous and childish.

STM, if you're still reading (which I doubt), how do you interpret different areas of the bible? Do you find yourself sticking very rigidly to things that have been written (no sex before marriage, no lying, no cheating, etc.) or do you use it as more of a guideline to your life?

I'm not really sure what I think about the Church's view on Genesis being a story, but the view of God and the bible does change depending on the times and the "fashion" of the bible. 100 years ago people concentrated more on the hellfire and brimstone, nowadays people concentrate on the loving, benevolent God. And as such, interpretations of the text change.

What does everyone think about the idea of an afterlife?

- Rexy

[STM]

I will comment on the idea of an afterlife because it is a different topic but I will not answer your questions here Rexy, if you are generally interested PM and I will tell you personally but no one else need know for risk of further argument.

I believe in Heaven, Hell and maybe Purgatory, I do not attempt to understand these realms but perhaps they are as stated in the Divine Comedy? I doubt it but I generally couldn't comment. I am intrigued as to how the Buddhists view the afterlife, I think it's very interesting.

[Wings of Fire]

Everyone seems to be ganging up on STM. Unfairly so, I think.

^^^

This. I think it's bad form for the mods and especially the owner to be so unneutral.

What does everyone think about the idea of an afterlife?

I want it to be true, but because there's no clear reasons for me to favour any one interpretation over another I'll carry on living my life how I sit fit. Plus, I believe in personal integrity and carrot and stick afterlife violates that.

[Dixanadu]

Maybe you just rot in the hole.

My dad was never the best at telling me the truths of the world.

[T-nex]

Honestly I don't see anyone ganging up on anyone... Some people call religion fairy tale and others say science is a lie.
Religion is what people make it. In the end, people just want to believe SOMEthing... So i don't actually see anything wrong wrong in making shit up about the bible. I could call myself a christian and make up an entirely new belief. That only means that I wouldn't be believing in what traditional christians believe... Meaning I'd be quite alone in my belief despite the label.
But honestly It's still just one person making shit up to substitute their existence.
I wish religion was more interesting and less restricting though. Like Voodoo :-D

Anyway personally I just stopped caring. An afterlife just seems too good to be true.
But I think if there is an afterlife it's nothing like any of us ever imagine. Also in an afterlife, which part of us would follow? If we have a soul it would no longer be confined by the body/brain and that means we'd perceive existence in a very different way. Honestly I find that thought scary. We would no longer feel the same way, think the same way.

... I don't like the thought of afterlife. On the other hand, nonexistence scares me too. What would that be like? What does it mean x_x Does it just mean that things go on as usual, but our perception of it is lost forever? My brain hurts

[STM]

But we don't know the truth that's the thing. A lot of people would like there to be a afterlife, me included, thankfully I believe in it and I know it exists but err, I suppose there's always worry and doubt.

[Manco]

thankfully I believe in it and I know it exists

Just FYI arrogant statements like these are why people are ganging up on you.

You don't know shit, you just admitted that in the same post. There's a difference between belief and knowledge.

[RoryF]

As much as an afterlife sounds cool, I don't think it's going to happen/exist.
I always thought that when a person dies, they go to sleep forever, but that was when I was 8-9. I still think sleeping sounds awesome though. No jobs or work or anything to worry about.

[STM]

Just FYI arrogant statements like these are why people are ganging up on you.

You don't know shit, you just admitted that in the same post. There's a difference between belief and knowledge.

No I know for certain it exists, obviously, as a Catholic I wouldn't think anything else. It can't not exist.

[T-nex]

But we don't know the truth that's the thing. A lot of people would like there to be a afterlife, me included, thankfully I believe in it and I know it exists but err, I suppose there's always worry and doubt.

I have to agree with OddHunter(but in a less angry way)... This really is the reason that most people gang up on Christians like you.
Because whenever you're presented with an argument, you talk around it. And you say "we can't know for sure" and in the same post you say "But i know"...


Let me just ask you. How DO you know all this? Except from what you read in the bible?
Is it just a gut feeling? Feelings are very subjective. They can come from many things. Insane, schizophrenic people believe they hear voice, but we know that to be untrue.
So what makes you any different? I mean if I told you "I read from a book that 1000 years from now we will ALL turn into frogs and I believe it" wouldn't you see me as a bit loony?
I'm not calling you a loony, but this is just the way you present yourself to us, thus the hostile comments.

If you really tried to explain without being arrogant, then maybe people would be more kind to you.

[Manco]

No I know for certain it exists, obviously, as a Catholic I wouldn't think anything else. It can't not exist.

It can and you have no evidence to back up your "knowledge".

Seriously, there's having faith and there's being an insufferable asshole. You do not and can not know that an afterlife exists. Nobody knows this, they simply believe it.

Get your head out of your ass and realise that belief is not a substitute for knowledge.

PS I'm not attacking your religious beliefs here, I'm attacking your attitude.

[STM]

Well I can't explain it to you because I don't know how, I just know it exists like you know that tomorrow the Sun will come out, that's not arrogance that's steadfast belief in the Lord.

I say "But we don't know the truth that's the thing." Because a lot of people don't, I do. Again, that's all down to believing in the word of God not arrogance.

[T-nex]

Well I can't explain it to you because I don't know how, I just know it exists like you know that tomorrow the Sun will come out, that's not arrogance that's steadfast belief in the Lord.

I say "But we don't know the truth that's the thing." Because a lot of people don't, I do. Again, that's all down to believing in the word of God not arrogance.

Well if that's your answer then it means nothing to me. I don't trust anyone's word solely based on their gut feeling.

Besides, how DO you know sun will rise tomorrow? How do you know that something doesn't go wrong. Like a friggin meteor. You can't predict the future, and you can't just take consistency for granted.

Your truth means nothing because it's based on nothing but your little head. It is very arrogant. But if it makes you happy, so be it.
Personally I think you just WANT it to be true so much that you convince yourself that you know.

But... As long as you let other's be themselves all is well

And I'm not bashing religion either. I'd say the same thing to an Atheist who think they know for sure.

[Manco]

Well I can't explain it to you because I don't know how, I just know it exists like you know that tomorrow the Sun will come out, that's not arrogance that's steadfast belief in the Lord.

We know the Sun will rise tomorrow because:

a) we've seen it millions of times in the past, and
b) we have knowledge of how our solar system works

We have evidence to back up our knowledge.

Belief is not evidence, stop flaunting it as such.

I say "But we don't know the truth that's the thing." Because a lot of people don't, I do. Again, that's all down to believing in the word of God not arrogance.

You don't know jack shit. As I said, belief is not a substitute for knowledge, and your claims of "knowing" are extremely arrogant because of this.

[STM]

T-Nex, science and religion both prove the sun will rise tomorrow, even if we were hit by a meteor it would still 'rise' as it were.

And I'm not asking you to trust me, what, you think I want you to get on your knees and be converted or something? You asked me a question and I answered in the only way I know how. I never said, "Hallelujah see the light heathen!!!" Also you keep trying to offend me with comments like 'my little head' and saying I'm arrogant when I'm just trying to explain to you in the nicest way possible.

And OH, I do know, I always will know certain that God is somewhere looking at me and smiling, well I hope he's smiling.

[Manco]

T-Nex, science and religion both prove the sun will rise tomorrow, even if we were hit by a meteor it would still 'rise' as it were.

hahahahahaha

ha

ha

And I'm not asking you to trust me, what, you think I want you to get on your knees and be converted or something? You asked me a question and I answered in the only way I know how. I never said, "Hallelujah see the light heathen!!!" Also you keep trying to offend me with comments like 'my little head' and saying I'm arrogant when I'm just trying to explain to you in the nicest way possible.

"I know what you non-believers don't" comes off as extremely arrogant.

Claiming to have knowledge that no other being in existence has is arrogant.

And OH, I do know, I always will know certain that God is somewhere looking at me and smiling, well I hope he's smiling.

How do you know? Because of your faith?

hint: faith =/= knowledge

[Havoc]

What does everyone think about the idea of an afterlife?

- Rexy

Strictly speaking for the scientific knowledge we have of the human body right now, I agree with Hawking's statement that, like a computer, there is no soul present to go to any sort of heaven. As it stands, our brain is just a really complex series of zaps going off to give us the feeling (or even illusion) of our senses. Once those zaps stop going off, our person just stops existing.

I will comment on the idea of an afterlife because it is a different topic but I will not answer your questions here Rexy, if you are generally interested PM and I will tell you personally but no one else need know for risk of further argument.

To me that says you're completely uncertain about your own beliefs, already doubting them as it is and don't want other people to push you over the edge into reality. It's like a little kid who thinks that if he just screams loud enough and closes his eyes, eventually he won't have to go to the doctor to get his shot.

Well I can't explain it to you because I don't know how, I just know it exists like you know that tomorrow the Sun will come out, that's not arrogance that's steadfast belief in the Lord.

You keep confusing 'knowing' and 'believing'. You don't know shit and you never will, that's the entire point of religion. You can only guess and hope that what your bible says is true because if it isn't, your entire foundation for living in the first place is blown to pieces.

Also, like I said in the other thread. You're far from an actual christian. A real christian wouldn't doubt the words in his bible. A real christian would not dare to think for his god and will take the rules of his god literal unless he is told otherwise by that god. To interpret the rules your god made for you with a different meaning because you otherwise don't like what they say is insulting to your god and if I were him I'd throw you in hell because of it.

[STM]

If I said God proved to me he existed so now I believe in him un-faltering would you stop asking the same question?

[T-nex]

T-Nex, science and religion both prove the sun will rise tomorrow, even if we were hit by a meteor it would still 'rise' as it were.

And I'm not asking you to trust me, what, you think I want you to get on your knees and be converted or something? You asked me a question and I answered in the only way I know how. I never said, "Hallelujah see the light heathen!!!" Also you keep trying to offend me with comments like 'my little head' and saying I'm arrogant when I'm just trying to explain to you in the nicest way possible.

And OH, I do know, I always will know certain that God is somewhere looking at me and smiling, well I hope he's smiling.

No i don't think you are trying to convert anyone. If you were you should take converting classes or something.

I was simply interested in knowing what makes you so sure. Because I always wonder what on earth makes Christians so sure of themselves. My conclusion is still that it's just wish-thinking disguised as confidence. But your answer didn't really enlighten me in any way than fortify this opinion.

Like if at least there was something that you experienced that wasn't just "Oh I believe this book"....
I really don't trust you when you say "I just know".

Also you're offended by "little head"? X_x That wasn't even meant to be offensive. Jeezus. Just thought it sounded cute.

I have no idea why you're getting so defensive. Either you answer the questions asked or not participate at all...

[Manco]

If I said God proved to me he existed so now I believe in him un-faltering would you stop asking the same question?

If you could back that up, sure.

e: God just called, he told me there's no afterlife. I completely 100% believe what he told me, but I can't tell you why. Just trust me, I know.

[RoryF]

And OH, I do know, I always will know certain that God is somewhere looking at me and smiling, well I hope he's smiling.

Where is your proof that he is smiling!?

Seriously though, some things in the bible are not supposed to be true facts, they're supposed to give an explaination to things people don't know. The 'knowledge' you're getting is only views and is no way the exact answer.

[STM]

I've spent 6 years of my life being prejudiced against for my religion by other people, I have a right to be defensive.

Anyway I don't know how you managed to get me back into this guys but I hate it so I'm staying out now.

[Havoc]

If I said God proved to me he existed so now I believe in him un-faltering would you stop asking the same question?

What he do? Show up in your toilet?

[Manco]

I've spent 6 years of my life being prejudiced against for my religion by other people, I have a right to be defensive.

Maybe if you didn't go around flaunting your "knowledge" that wouldn't happen.

[T-nex]

Maybe if you didn't go around flaunting your "knowledge" that wouldn't happen.

Well ... it IS a religious debate <.< >.>.....

Anyway STM, i just don't like your attitude. Not giving room for any doubt is close minded. Saying you know for sure is close minded. I think religion is fine, and there are religious people I respect very much because of the way they carry it.

But maybe you just fail at communicating or we fail to understand you. But to us you just seem very arrogant in thinking you know the truth and the way you present your comments.



Also Havoc don't just provoke STM, we don't want this to become unnecessarily heated.

[DarkHoodness]

Hasn't this topic already been discussed to death on the forums?

Before people lay into each other too much, remember this: You cannot reason someone out of something that they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

(Ironically the friend who told me that got stuck so far into feminism that she lost sight of the bigger picture, and the plot.)

And then I'll contradict myself a little bit to go on to say:

But we don't know the truth that's the thing.

You really should start listening to yourself before you contradict yourself further. You don't know anything. None of us know anything for sure - Not even the scientists. Some things are just beyond our understanding. It's just that the scientists have theories that make logical sense, and some evidence to back those theories up. Some religions on the other hand are based around ancient stories which are less believable than most fictional stories that exist today. I think I know who to believe more.

Maybe people who believe strongly in something need their security blanket to give their lives some sort of meaning, but I'll also say that we should rely on what we know for sure: We are alive. We should be making the most of what we know - The fact that we are alive. And that's what we should be trying to enjoy as best we can. We should be happy that we're experiencing this. Is how we got here and where we'll go really that important? Really?

[metroixer]

Both


Peace out

[T-nex]

Both


Peace out

Uh.... Care to elaborate so that I wont delete this for spam?