Life?

[T-nex]

That's good. That means you are distracted for long enough, so that we can reach into the cookie jar and steal them =D

[STM]

What do people think on the sanctity of life? I.e, do you think that human life is sacred or not? This question extends to people who are religious or not. Personally I believe that this is true and that suicide is never the answer, furthermore, I am of the opinion that abortion is wrong unless it is for a select few cases like if a girl was raped and does not want the child.

[moxco]

Do you think non-human life is sacred? If not; why do you differentiate?

[T-nex]

I think humans are some of the unsacred things ever to exist.


For me, something sacred is something pure and innocent. And trust me, animals are far closer to being sacred than humans.

Also we already have several abortion discussion.
But to keep it on topic. I don't feel life or new life is necessary. I find people's obsession with it off-putting... We're like 6 billion+ people now on planet earth. To think that each and everyone of us is important and sacred is really just grasped for a meaning out of nowhere. I think more people should get abortions, so that we can minimize our population a bit, and stop chopping down forests to find to places to live.

In the end, it all doesn't matter. We live, we die, and what happens beyond that is just a mystery,

This is all just my personal opinion

[moxco]

So you don't mind if I kill you then?

[abe is now!]

The beauty of the peanut butter and jelly sandwich is that almost ANYTHING can be thrown into the mix. One of my favorite concoctions is strawberry preserves, creamy skippy brand peanut butter, a handful of lays potato chips, and a sprinkling of Cap'n crunch berries all in between two slices of extra thick cinnamon raisin bread, which is then cooked in a skillet like a grilled cheese. You know, with butter. It's fucking amazing.

For more artery clogging goodness, add thick cut pepper bacon to said sandwich.

Dear DI, let me tell you that when I was younger I really wanted to spend the rest of my life in the junk, always wearing the same dirty jacket, pants and boots, never wash my hair, never work, insult annoying people with only "fuck off", feed myself with beer... I'm wondering what changed my mind. You're the one who can understand me.

[STM]

T-Nex, you would therefore be quite happy to have surgeons hack out the unborn from their mothers before they even had a footprint on the Earth, because to solve a problem we are creating, it is right to kill those who for all we know might end up being art of the solution. We don't have the right to kill other humans, why should we get to decide whether a baby dies or not, I'd put my life in place of an otherwise healthy new-born/ un-born. It seems a very disconnected thought to have.

[T-nex]

So you don't mind if I kill you then?

Jesus christ... When did anything of what I just said equate to me wanting to be killed? Please, if you are going to engage in a conversation, try at least and use a tiny bit of logic.


And STM... As heartless as it may sound... Yes.. I think mothers should have the right to kill their unborn babies. I'm sorry, it is just my belief. I don't hold unborn tissue to the same value as a human being that is outside of the womb and living.
And I don't mean that they don't deserve to live. But think about it. Why is it your business what a woman across the states does with her body? If she loves her unborn baby, whether accidental or not... Then by all means, they should keep it.

But if no one wants it... I just can't look away from the fact that it's a fetus that's not even properly developed yet. Thus I value the living being's(which developed feelings and emotional issues) choice a lot more, than a fetus that probably doesn't even know what's going one.

So... what I'm trying to say, is that I value existing life more than potential life. So if a potential life takes away from an existing living being, then I see a problem with that.

And I didn't mean that I think people should strive for abortions, though I think i may have made it sound that way.

[STM]

So what about if your mother wanted an abortion for a perfectly healthy child, you would stand by her decision to kill your future brother or sister?

Before the eighth month a baby can learn, before that it can dream and even before that it can think. All the functions of a child.

[T-nex]

To answer your question, yes... I'd support my moms decision to decide whatever she does with her body.

And perhaps it can learn. But so can everyone else. I just don't see why an unborn childs happiness is more valuable than an already living being.

[STM]

I dunno, they are still innocent. If you want to get rid of people get rid of the people without morals, the sex offenders, the drug addicts, those who refuse to work, the religious extremists, the fraud scammers, the dictators. There are plenty of people to kill instead of babies if you want to decrease the population.

[abe is now!]

I dunno, they are still innocent. If you want to get rid of people get rid of the people without morals, the sex offenders, the drug addicts, those who refuse to work, the religious extremists, the fraud scammers, the dictators. There are plenty of people to kill instead of babies if you want to decrease the population.

You forgot politicians.

[T-nex]

Im just saying that people should stop complaining when someone decides to get an abortion. It doesn't harm the circle of life. Not one bit. May harm the economics if a lot of abortions happen but meh...

[DarkHoodness]

I spent about an hour thinking about this so it may be a little outdated. Hah. Ah well.

I'm aware that I'm scratching the surface of a much, much deeper topic here, I can't be bothered to think of all the variables and may contradict myself as I always do, (besides I think T-Nex already hit the nail on the head regarding what I'm about to say here and explained it better than me), but I generally believe that quality of life should be a lot more important than simply being alive, although I think I already said something like this in the abortion topic a couple of months ago.

IMO there's a difference between a bunch of cells that aren't self-aware and a developed embryo that is, and if a child isn't wanted by its parents before it becomes self-aware (yeah, I know that when it becomes self-aware is heavily debated), then they should have the right to abort it - And chances are they won't look after the child properly if that right is taken away from them. But this has been discussed to death and nobody can agree, so I won't go into it further.

Having the opportunity to be given a life by parents who want you and will look after you is a fantastic one, and a happy, healthy person who is enjoying their life and wants to keep it shouldn't have that right taken away from them (unless they pose a serious danger to others - but executing criminals isn't really justifiable. Chances are that if you're in a position to pose a threat to others, then you're not happy or healthy - I think that's a different topic, though).

However, if someone is suffering and wants to die, then they should be allowed to stop living if they're capable of making that decision rationally. This doesn't mean you should be allowed to knock yourself off for solvable problems though, and especially not for mundane problems (for example financial issues, losses of material, non-important goods, breaking up with someone who you were only with for a short time - You fail at life if you commit suicide over those), but if you have a terminal disease and are in a lot of pain without hope of recovery, then you should be allowed to end your own life. I find it silly how you can take a pet to a vets and have them euthanized if it's suffering and has no hope of recovery, but you can't do that to yourself.

[Manco]

Before the eighth month a baby can learn, before that it can dream and even before that it can think. All the functions of a child.

Show me a doctor that will abort an eight-month foetus.

[T-nex]

Yea... stop treating human life as if it MUST be preserved no matter how bad that one life is x_x I'm all for making helping humans commit suicide given they are in the right condition to do so(meaning not mundane problems like Edd said :p)

I actually never understood why suicide is illegal.... One should be able to decide if they wanna stay alive or not. Making it illegal is just silly.

If they had clinics to help you pass on peacefully, Im sure they may be able to actually help people change their minds with counseling and whatnot. I could imagine that at such a clinic they'd ask a lot of question to make sure the person is not making a terrible mistake.

Edit: OddHunter posted x_x

[Nate]

Show me a doctor that will abort an eight-month foetus.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=chi...,78.574219&z=4

[T-nex]

Like I said... when you bring in the extremes, you can make anything sound bad

[STM]

I never said anything about euthanasia, I don't think that it should come under the spectrum of suicide because someone who wants to be put down wants to die with dignity, not to be hung from the rafters or splattered across the pavement.

However I stand by my views on abortion as wrong on a whole bar extreme cases as I mentioned earlier.

[T-nex]

Euthanasia IS suicide no matter how you try to look at it. Just a more humane and dignified way of doing it.

And the abortion issue really is just a subjective thing in general. Kind of like 'Does evil and good exist?'. On a grand scale, no.. But subjectively yes. And there are many grey areas. I don't think people will ever reach a unified decision.

[Disgruntled Intern]

Dear DI, let me tell you that when I was younger I really wanted to spend the rest of my life in the junk, always wearing the same dirty jacket, pants and boots, never wash my hair, never work, insult annoying people with only "fuck off", feed myself with beer... I'm wondering what changed my mind. You're the one who can understand me.

We call those gutterpunks over here. I did the gutterpunk thing for a while, but eventually even my own smell got too much for me too handle. I don't know why you didn't do it, or what that has to do with a sandwich. You're so delightfully silly and weird!

[T-nex]

Oh wow.... I think I finally found the word... Gutterpunks. I tried hanging out with them for a while, cos they sort of fascinated me for a long while untill I found out they were just people who wanted to do minimal work, receive free government money and complain about everything without making much of a stance(granted some of them DID take part in protests and activist organizations, but most didn't). But I think they were gutterpunks, since they seem very alike what AIN just described D=
My head just blew.

Edit: I liked one of them cos he seemed smart and stuff.... But he also didn't seem very ambitious ._. .... And I found out I was too shy to hang out with them anyway.

[Disgruntled Intern]

Most gutterpunks are 'DIY til you die' and anti government, and those I've known have never been on any form of government assistance, so I don't know, that's...Odd.

[STM]

We have gutterpunks in the UK as well going by your description, either chavs or council scum, or both I dunno.

[Wings of Fire]

Council scum? Excuse me?

Are you Margerat Thatcher now?

[T-nex]

Most gutterpunks are 'DIY til you die' and anti government, and those I've known have never been on any form of government assistance, so I don't know, that's...Odd.

Well.. GOing by the 'never wash hair(wear same clothes/blabla) notion... But I think a little culture of danish laziness seeped in. In denmark its extremely easy to live well on social welfare. At least in that circle... they were really really... lacking ambitions x_x It was kinda sad.

[Sekto Springs]

So what about if your mother wanted an abortion for a perfectly healthy child, you would stand by her decision to kill your future brother or sister?

Not legal. For more information on why abortions are great and should be performed whenever possible, watch John Carpenter's Pro-Life. That baby you don't abort may turn out to be the devil!

As for Gutterpunks, the ones that take their persona seriously have my respect. But like any psuedo-anarchist sub-culture collective, it's completely diluted with obnoxious posers like the ones Nikki mentioned. Loitering in public places, never bathing, and smoking copious amounts of pot is fun but it's hardly the big, anti-machine movement many of them think it is. I try so hard to have a "live and let live" attitude when it comes to ignorant kids who completely face-plant at being counter culture, but then I see them at Spencer's buying Cannabis and Anti Flag paraphernalia and want so badly to tell them how hard they fail.

[ziggy]

I've had the weird desire to be able to create an alternate universe in which none of my actions will have real repercussions, where I can go on a rampage and kill everyone in sight when I feel really pissed off. I would never have the wish or the balls to do that in real life, and I really do like people- a lot. But sometimes I hate everything, and in this way I think it would be a kind of catharsis of my vulgar urges. Life's good though, most of the time.

[Wings of Fire]

I've had the weird desire to be able to create an alternate universe in which none of my actions will have real repercussions, where I can go on a rampage and kill everyone in sight when I feel really pissed off. I would never have the wish or the balls to do that in real life, and I really do like people- a lot. But sometimes I hate everything, and in this way I think it would be a kind of catharsis of my vulgar urges.

We have escapism for that.

[ziggy]

Yeah, escapism is basically what I practice in for fun everyday. Don't we all kind of?