War or Peace?

[paramiteabe]

You know I am so tired of you people who hate us. And for what? Why do you hate America? I mean when you people from other countries are being threaten killed and tortured by your governments. Who do you see come in and save you from that? The U.S. Who do you see save starving countries? The U.S. And you say we are are threat of the world.

But when you see air planes fly into our skyscrappers do you even come over and help us out? NO. You sit there and laugh at us. Well all I have to say is what comes around goes around. God Bless America and for all it stands for. freedom! And God bless our young American Solders who are fighting for peace.

[Forbidden Paradise]

Originally posted by Alcar
I so agree. Like I've said before:

When Australia went to war in Vietnam, we lost and I'm glad we did we had no rights to be in there

And, John Howard is such a pack follower

Alcar...

I'm glad someone sees it from my point of view, much appreciation Alcar.

Paramiteabe, not once did Alcar nor I mention that we hated America. We just expressed our views on what we thought of the Australian situation.

But with you saying that stuff about

"I mean when you people from other countries are being threaten killed and tortured by your governments. Who do you see come in and save you from that?...

does that mean America was going in to save the Iraq community from their oppression if they had no "super powers?"

Let's say saddam hussein didn't have any weapons of mass destruction or chemical warfare whatsoever. Let's say Iraq was not the leading Oil producer of the world, but saddam was still an oppressor. Would America come in and save the oppressed?

We didn't say you were "the threat of the world. After Iraq will the same thing happen with North Korea and their ability to produce Nuclear Weapons? Who next, Russia? Not another Cold War. Does there always have to be a motive? Bush has got some thinking to do.

[Alcar]

I never said I hated the US.

I just hate the US Government, which is only a small amount of people that don't know how to run a country properly.

But I am not for Iraq either, Suddam ain't the greatest. He's even worst. What I'm trying to empathise is that the US is a bully, and shouldn't be the decider of who can and can't have nuclear weapons.

I have many friends in the US, and I don't hate them. I hate the Government. Another thing I've always said is:

All the good American presidents were assasinated, except Bill Clinton

Alcar...

[Forbidden Paradise]

I hope saddam gets what's coming to him, he deserves it, and more.

He actually had butchered quite a few members of his own family, including all his son-in-laws and an uncle, for minor reasons such as trying to leave the country. He's a murderer and an attrocity to humankind.

The unspeakable act of actually placing his troops/equipment among civilians and highly populated areas shows the fact that he cares little for the lives of his fellow citizens, and has allowed his (empty) pride to blind his reason. He is fighting a war he cannot possibly win, but along with wars come casualties.

The 97% US troop survival rate is still haunting.
People are hoping this war would end swiftly, but I can assure you it will take longer than that.

FACT: The amount of bombs dropped on the first day of this war has exceeded the amount dropped throughout the entire duration of the Gulf War.

[paramiteabe]

Well I know you dident I am just expressing my feelings towards the people who do, like the French and the Germans. We are in Iraq to liberate them from Saddam. We are trying to help the Iraqis. The Target is the Government not Iraq. Infact the first wave of attacks were towards Iraqi leaders and their stronghold in Begdad. All I am saying is how long does it have to be until something does happen and hundreds of thousands of lives are killed?

Your right our Government is screwed up but so are all the other Governments in the world.

[Forbidden Paradise]

Hey, it's all understood

Your right there are no perfect governments in the world because if there were, situations as severe as this would never happen. With wars come casualties, and almost everyone no matter which side they are on will have to pay some costs.

I hate my government, and I have to bloody vote at the next election. I think I'd rather pay the fine ($20). At least your government is independent, not relying on the British Commonwealth like we are.

At least now decades of deceit and cruelty by saddam will now reach an end.

[paramiteabe]

We ought to think about it before invadeing other countries. But if the point of invadeing Iraq is to get rid Saddam then I am sure Bush has the right idea just that he dident take the time to really think about the actions. History has a tendancy to repeat itself and this is nothing new. I was sitting in class today and the question was said that do you think Bush is handleing this situation well? And I was thinking about this topic and surpriseingly a lot of hands rose in my class. He has the right idea but its just too soon.
We live in an age when the last 12 years of deplomacy has failed. Unfortunatly it results into war. All I have to say is what a mess.

[Hobo]

Bush is Mad! he doesn't realise that "freeing" Iraq will make their oil more available, meaning that the U.S.A's oil will have to drop in price, leading to more money for Iraq and less for the U.S.A.
Also a question, if the UK doesn't find any "big bombs" can the army be tried for war crimes?.......... I just wanna say that i am pro-war. ( and a communist......... i didn't say that did I?)

[Gorgoroth_II]

Majic Abe, it's a bit naive to think that Bush WOULD state that he wants Saddam's oil reserves.

Not all of America's (or Britain's, in fact) oil comes from Iraq, that's true enough. But Iraq is one of, if not THE most oil-rich place on the planet at the moment, and it couldn't hurt America if they owned it, heh.

The war has indeed begun though, and right now, i'm just happy that America and Britain have bombing carefully selected targets, and are not massacaring innocent Iraqi civilians...

[paramiteabe]

Originally posted by Gorgoroth_II
Majic Abe, it's a bit naive to think that Bush WOULD state that he wants Saddam's oil reserves.

Not all of America's (or Britain's, in fact) oil comes from Iraq, that's true enough. But Iraq is one of, if not THE most oil-rich place on the planet at the moment, and it couldn't hurt America if they owned it, heh.

The war has indeed begun though, and right now, i'm just happy that America and Britain have bombing carefully selected targets, and are not massacaring innocent Iraqi civilians...

Your absolutely right. We get our oil from Alaska at least most of it.

[Forbidden Paradise]

Originally posted by Gorgoroth_II
The war has indeed begun though, and right now, i'm just happy that America and Britain have bombing carefully selected targets, and are not massacaring innocent Iraqi civilians...

But Bush has indeed said that the loss of civilian life is definitely inevitable. Even in Afghanistan some "smart bombs" missed their targets and caused massive civilian casualties.

As with oil weren't they gonna set fire to their oil reserves or something to keep the Americans at bay? Our petrol (thats what we call gas over here) has gone through the roof in price.

[Edit] UPDATE: US Helicopter crashes in Kuwait, killing 4 US military personnel and 12 British Marines.

[Jacob]

12 British Marines.

8 actually.

I really dont see the fuss. The sooner we can get rid of Saddam, means the sooner we can liberate Iraq. Which is a good thing. Sure, there will be a few deaths but there'd be deaths anyway. Saddam had a womans tongue cut out, dragged in the middle of the street and allowed her to bleed to death for just slandering him. All the people wanting peace are obviously not living in this reality because there is no such thing as peace so everyone saying that just piss off cos there's nothing more annoying than a horde of people wanting something that doesn't exist. Its like me saying "I want a Dinosaur." the fact is they dont exist anymore and so i wont get it...so...yeh, there. Stop going on about peace!!

[paramiteabe]

You do have a point there.

Just the other day in Cleveland there was a riot going on in Public Square of peace protesters and people who are for the American troops and the war. Lets just say that protesting anything now is completely pointless.

I was also listening to the radio and it said this guy in Washington DC hand cuffed himself to a building to protest the war. He disposed of the keys but he accendently cuff himself to the wrong building. It was the insurance building. People were walking in laughing at him and told him that building you want to be at is across the street. They had to call the police to get him loose. Its just that protesting can really get silly in these days.

I laugh everytime I see protesters because I know what they are doing will not work. Maybe back in the sixties during the Vietnam war but now its not working.

[Forbidden Paradise]

Whoops, I stand corrected Jacob.

Sorry to you and everyone else. It's just that as I was finished posting the update came on the CNN coverage and they said the casualties were 16. I checked the site and it's now 12. It's still worrying though, but that type of aircraft was designed in the 60's.

We've got a lot protesters here down under, but what good can they do now. The war has already begun, and it's not as if the troops are gonna turn around and go home, with all that they've accomplished so far.

Originally posted by Paramiteabe
I was also listening to the radio and it said this guy in Washington DC hand cuffed himself to a building to protest the war. He disposed of the keys but he accendently cuff himself to the wrong building. It was the insurance building. People were walking in laughing at him and told him that building you want to be at is across the street.

LOL! Shows he has initiative.

[Gorgoroth_II]

I laugh everytime I see protesters because I know what they are doing will not work.

I agree ParamiteAbe.

A sad thing is, i've noticed that a lot of the protesters here in britain seem to be doing it to be "cool" more than anything else. A lot of them are as opinionated as a wet lettuce.

[Alcar]

Originally posted by paramiteabe
Lets just say that protesting anything now is completely pointless.

The Leaders of countries are meant to listen to the people... Not ignore them.

And, go Labour! Go Labour! Go Labour! (that is the left winged parliament party in Australia that has once again won the NSW elections!)

Go you left winged buddies! No doubt you know who I'm voting for when I'm old enough

Alcar...

[MasterChief]

im all for war because its the only way to handle it. also why is everyone caring for tyhe iraq civilians? i say screw them, u think they care for us? Of Course NOT. i say screw everyone in Iraq. and i agree with paramite when he said nobody was really helpin ( like the Germans and french). alot of countires dont lift a finger to help. Now if it was the french trade center buildings they would care. Also i think its bs when countries hate america becaise its a fact that we help out more then any other country. And the only countries that get pissed at us are the ones we dont always help out. we are doing countires favors when we help then and now countires hate us for helping other ppl. i think its great that Britain and Australia are on our side helping us fight. i dont live australia but for those of u who do, why do u care that ur men are helping fight for this good cause? ya their has been and will be more casualties but if it is for the better then why not?

i dont know about you guys but id be more then willing to help out my country during a time like this

[Forbidden Paradise]

Originally posted by MasterChief
... also why is everyone caring for tyhe iraq civilians? i say screw them, u think they care for us? Of Course NOT. i say screw everyone in Iraq....

There are just so many things wrong with that statement I don't think I'll bother explaining, but let's hope the rest of you who actually have brains, are using them.

Oh well, I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion....

[Hobo]

Apparently a british helicopter has been shot down by an american patriot (anti missile) missile! No british have actually been killed in combat, all in helicopters!

[Alcar]

Originally posted by MasterChief
also why is everyone caring for tyhe iraq civilians? i say screw them, u think they care for us? Of Course NOT. i say screw everyone in Iraq.

How can you say such a thing? The reason people care is because they have hearts.

Alcar...

[Hobo]

They would care for us but their government sows a really negative image of the western world. By saying we shoot kids and stuff like that.

[Forbidden Paradise]

Originally posted by hobo
... No british have actually been killed in combat, all in helicopters!

I hate that how we're getting all those casualties from accidents. First there was the US helicopter crash, then the collision of the two British helicopters, followed by the American grenade incident, and now the Patriot Missile mishap.

My deepest sympathy and respect for the family of the first Australian casualty, camera-man

Paul Moran

who is survived now by his wife and seven month old daughter.

[Facsimile]

How can anyone say this has anything to do with 9/11? It is totally seperate. Saddam did not give the order to fly planes into the twin towers.
I see Australia also use excuses such as the Bali (sp?) bombing as a reason to go to war. They are totally seperate incidents. George just wants to make daddy proud.

[paramiteabe]

Look the point of all of this is that we Americans are liberators and we are liberating an opressed country. nobody ever said that this will be a walk in the park. We are not going in to kill off civilians. The iraqis do that. And what they are doing is showing the world propaganda to everyone makeing everybody say that America is the bad guy and we are to blame. The Iraqi solders are dressing up like civilians for crise sake or makeing the civilians walk out into the street to be humen shields when we go and bomb. Thus resulting in more hatred towards us. I just find it annoying when other countries are saying we are the terrorists and the evil doers of this world when it was them who flew the damm planes into the Twin Towers. So now all that we are doing is protecting ourselves from this. There is no winner in a war but when its unevitable then what can you do?

So now you have untold thousands of people around the world thinking that the Americans are the Fu!king Nazi party when that is like such total bull sh!t! Why? Because of all the propaganda. Now tell me one thing when we do find weapons of mass destruction and chemical war heads (not to mention we already have found gas masks and chemical suits hidden in an Iraqi stronghold by the way.) what are you going to say then? What gets me is why people are thinking that we are the next Nazis? I mean do you see us throwing Jews into Death Camps? I think that comparison is absurd and crazy. And I cannot tolerate such a comparison as a U.S citizen. Has everyone forgotten that we have been at war ever since 8 A.M on September 11th 2001? This is another part of over all war on Terrorism.

[Alcar]

You the people are not the liberators, Bush doesn't give a stuff about you or any other American.

You are comparing to the Nazis and Hitler, well in my opinion it wasn't Hitler that was the worst. He was being JUST like your President, he wanted a better country for the Germans, he saw that the Jews were better off and that his people were poor and suffering. Now, don't get me wrong what happened to the Jews was very, very bad. However, like I said, I think that it was Hitler's General that was the real mastermind behind it all. I think that also, it is the people alongside Bush that are doing things that Bush doesn't know about.

But, a lass, Bush won't die. Because after all, he is evil. And we all know my saying that all the good Presidents were shot (besides Mr Bill Clinton).

No war is good, and how do you know that what you are being shown is not propaganda? After all, everything in the news about this war is filtered AND propaganda is meant to sound true. So, how do you know what we are being force fed is the truth?

You don't, afterall;

The first casualty of war, is truth

Alcar...

[Facsimile]

Originally posted by paramiteabe
Look the point of all of this is that we Americans are liberators and we are liberating an opressed country.

If they wanted to be liberated then why are so many fighting against you?

I just find it annoying when other countries are saying we are the terrorists and the evil doers of this world when it was them who flew the damm planes into the Twin Towers.

No it wasn't!!! This is just the excuse America is using when they are totally seperate incidents.

Now tell me one thing when we do find weapons of mass destruction and chemical war

The key word here being "when". And you aren't letting anyone look anymore anyway, it's all attack, attack, attack.

not to mention we already have found gas masks and chemical suits hidden in an Iraqi stronghold

That could mean they are in fear or the U.S. using chemicals. I know the U.S. aren't that stupid but... oh wait... yes they are.

This is another part of over all war on Terrorism.

Saddamm may terrorize his own citizens but when recently has he done it to you?

[paramiteabe]

Originally posted by Facsimile
If they wanted to be liberated then why are so many fighting against you?


No it wasn't!!! This is just the excuse America is using when they are totally seperate incidents.


The key word here being "when". And you aren't letting anyone look anymore anyway, it's all attack, attack, attack.


That could mean they are in fear or the U.S. using chemicals. I know the U.S. aren't that stupid but... oh wait... yes they are.


Saddamm may terrorize his own citizens but when recently has he done it to you?

1st Because everyone thinks the U.S are the Nazis. Second its seems everyone is supporting Terrorism so thus everyone hates us because we are a country who is a freedom loveing country which could mean that everybody is just jealous with us. Is that not true?


What hell are you talking about excuse? Its the truth Terrorist did fly into our buildings. Wether you like it or not the truth of the matter is that these people need to be punished not the civilians the Government. I mean what these people do is completly inhuman. They killed thousands of lives and you want us to sit back and let the masacure continue? I am sorry but I am tired of being in the company of death. You don't mess with us! Oh here is another thing where were you people at when we were fighting in Kosovo during the Clinton era? This is no different. Gee why all of a sudden do you hate us? Could it be because Bush is President? Well if Clinton was doing this would you think the same as you do now? Or even better yet what about Al Gore? If he did this would you be the same now?

He hasnt done it to us but he will and we are preventing that from ever happening. So go ahead complain that we are the evil people of the world and that Bush is Adolf Hitler. Because it is all just a big joke!

All I have to say is one thing what a mess the world is in right now!

[Jacob]

Firstly i agree with Alcar on the Hitler thing, due to the fact that documents have been discovered that show that Hitler didn't know about most things that went on. Also, the concentration camps were brought forth during the last 2 yrs of the war and not only Jews got thrown in them, other minorities did (such as gays and blacks, i do believe).

If they wanted to be liberated then why are so many fighting against you?

Out of pure fear, if they dont fight then Saddam will have them and their families executed. Quite like Stalin did with the purges...

1st Because everyone thinks the U.S are the Nazis.

Who the Hell has said that the USA is supporting Nazism?? I haven't heard anything about that!! I've just heard that the US is supporting War due to the fact it got one Hell of a shock when two planes went and crashed up its ass...

Second its seems everyone is supporting Terrorism so thus everyone hates us because we are a country who is a freedom loveing country which could mean that everybody is just jealous with us.

Firstly nobody is supporting Terrorism. If i were to get technical i would state that the only people supporting terrorism was the Americans themselves as they helped put the President of Korea (whom is a total f*ckwit) into Government. Also, your not a freedom loving country due to the fact you have hordes of Bible-bashers hindering the Tv companies and such like.

Its the truth Terrorist did fly into our buildings.

Yes, but Saddam never had anything to do with it. Bush stated that he had substantial proof that Saddam and Osama were friends, but he hasn't showed it. Osama hasn't got no connections with Saddam...

The key word here being "when".

Precisely. Upto now Saddam hasn't used any weapons of mass destruction. Also if Saddam did have any do you really think that the Americans would be invading?? No, due to the fact that if they did Saddam would merrily drink some 1770's Red Wine whilst pushing the button that unleashes his weapons. Before the Americans even got near the Iraqi border New York would be flattened...or disease ridden.

when we do find weapons of mass destruction and chemical war heads what are you going to say then?

I'll ponder whether the photo's were fake or not...

The fact of the matter is, is that the US has never experienced an act of aggression on their home turf. So when two planes merrily get hijacked and skip into the Two Towers then the Americans are like;

"Like, O-M-G...What do we, like, do!! This is, like, totally, like, wrong and...like...stuff!! O-M-G!!"

And go on the offensive. Oh well, at least you got a kick in the ass...unfortunatly its resulted in the Americans going all trigger-happy...joyfulness.

[MojoMan220]

I think The Oddworld Forums should bomb The Glass Asylum...

[paramiteabe]

Your right MojoMan we need to go and blow up the Glass Asylum. As God as my witness we will bring down the Glass Asylum!