Bits & Pieces VIII (OMG, Hobo visited! Now this title can't be libelous Edition)

[MeechMunchie]

Agnostics need to fuck off and pick a side. There's a war coming, I tell you.

[STM]

We're our own side. We get to watch the other two sides grow red faced and shout at each other, we laugh.

[OANST]

Agnostics are just neutered atheists.

[STM]

Nope.

[Varrok]

Hell no.

[Crashpunk]

Opinion: How Punk Rock's Past Inspires the Future of Indie Games
Interesting little article

[OANST]

Oh, they most certainly are.

[Varrok]

They're not.

(I like where this conversation is going)

[OANST]

Neutered, or stupid. I fixed it.

[Varrok]

That's more like it


...wait, no! In fact, there are some agnostic people being closer to theists than to atheists (like the ones who profess agnostic theism)

[OANST]

Then they aren't agnostic.

[Varrok]

Agnostic theists aren't agnostic?

[OANST]

Yup.

[Varrok]

And you're sure they are the stupid?

[OANST]

They just aren't agnostic.

Look, if you have an opinion, then you aren't an agnostic. If you say that you think there probably is a higher power, but you can't prove it so won't say for sure then you are merely a somewhat reasonable theist. If you think there isn't a higher power, but can't prove a negative then you are a pussy of an atheist. Have an opinion. Opinions can change, and opinions can be wrong, but at least you weren't a little faggot who kicked at the dirt with his head bowed while the grown ups had a conversation.

[Wings of Fire]

A/Theism is a question of belief, not knowledge.

[OANST]

A/Theism is a question of belief, not knowledge.

Exactly. If I say that I don't believe there is a god it doesn't mean that I have to prove it, and my inability to prove it doesn't make me wrong. In that same vein I can't prove that unicorns don't exist, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to bleed from my vagina, and claim that I don't know if unicorns are real or not. I simply don't believe it. So, I'm an atheist. This whole agnostic thing is just a way to neuter an opinion so it's less offensive, and that offends me.

[Wings of Fire]

Not really. Believing God doesn't exist, but not having the arrogance to say 'God isn't real' makes you an agnostic atheist. Similarly, believing in God, but not having a rock solid faith in his existence (Which makes you a pretty fucking poor theist, really) would mean you're an agnostic theist.

I don't care about the question of belief, which would make me an agnostic atheist by default as I can't know of God's existence. People who claim that agnosticism is a third option to a/theism are being silly.

[OANST]

The extra word is unnecessary. Everyone already knows that neither point can be truly proven, and as you pointed out already the terms atheist, and theist are terms that apply to belief, and not knowledge. Since we've already agreed that the word atheist means a lack of belief in a god, and does not need, or include any definitive knowledge then adding the word agnostic is just superfluous, and unnecessary.

You are an atheist. You don't believe in a god. Being open to changing your mind if events prove otherwise is not something that needs an additional qualifier.

[STM]

I missed the God Debates.

[Mac Sirloin]

There is a lawn. On one side, there is a barbecue. On the other a picnic. They are both lovely. In the middle is a fence that is begging to be sat on while you figure out who to eat with. The fence is tall enough to warrant some thought before you drop from one side or another, but short enough to climb up again if your appetite changes. There is just this fence, and no other in betweens. To be on one side eating chicken salad while grubbing for a steak on the other would contradict the fence.

[OANST]

That's probably the best argument for agnosticism that I've heard. However, I think that a person who is genuinely seeking how they feel about a subject doesn't fall into any of the three categories. Atheism is the belief that there isn't a god. Theism is the belief in a god. Agnosticism is more or less a refusal to pick a side even though in reality they already have, but just won't admit it. Apart from that you have the people who honestly just don't give a fuck one way or the other, and it doesn't even occur to them to think about it, and the people who are "soul searching" for an answer. These people don't fit into any one category, and will therefor be referred to simply as "people". They are probably the only ones worth a damn anyways.

[Mac Sirloin]

For analogies' sake they would be the people walking about the neighborhood without any plans for the night.

[OANST]

For analogies' sake they would be the people walking about the neighborhood without any plans for the night.

I was going to say that they are the ones playing frisbee, and enjoying each other's company in the adjacent park, but yours works too.

[Mac Sirloin]

Pretty much that. Maybe hitting up the 7/11 for some nondenominational freezies.

[Laser]

In lighter news:



Amazing how much of Kanye West and Jay Z two tenish year olds can embody

[MeechMunchie]

It's a poll. PC gamers voted on which franchises they thought were getting better/worse with every installment. There were 17% more votes for "Worse" than "Better" across the board, which just goes to show that we really are miserable bastards.

[Dynamithix]

Hey can you make that a bit bigger? Can't really see it.

[MeechMunchie]

Just zoom out? You've got a mouse wheel for a reason.

[Varrok]

Fallout? REALLY?