Re: The 'To all who wish to express disgust' announcement

Doug · #1 08-23-2002, 04:02 AM

You say that you are all about free speech. You don't know thing one about free speech. If you hadn't closed all the topics pertaining to your appalling conduct, I would have added a post to one of those instead of starting a new thread. But I can't now, can I?

How many closed topics are there now? How many of them have legitimate subject matter in them? You don't want free speech; you want speech that doesn't rock your little idyllic Oddworld boat.

Please ban me. If you don't ban me I will be back here as often as I can manage to remind you of your cowardly behavior. Of course, banning me when I have only criticized the government -- quite civilly, I might add -- would be the ultimate violation of free speech, wouldn't it? C'mon; show your true colors. Oops -- I forgot; you already did that.

Wolfpac · #2 08-23-2002, 04:08 AM

Close this topic

There is no such thing as free speech on the Internet

But out of interest, am I the only one who finds this whole thing Funny.

Kaimana · #3 08-23-2002, 04:13 AM

I really shouldnt be replying but you do have a freedom of speech here ...but this thread will get no where your just trying to prove Pilot wrong...listen take my advice and lets all just move on.....please enough arguing already its over. We understand that there are people who still have there own bad opinions about the Staff and forums the way it is now but everything is ok now we have moved on...And so should you...this thread may be closed or deleted. it wont get anywhere

Pilot · #4 08-23-2002, 04:18 AM

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Yes Doug, that is true. They are all about free speech, but for the sake of keeping the pointless arguing to a minimum, posts that are only created for the sake of "raising hell" will be put in their proper place. The words are not, therefore, silenced; they're being put in the appropriate thread where people may view them of their own free will. Notice also that the thread will come back to the top for everyone to see.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp The way I see things is that people can just as well discuss controversial matter without resorting to childish namecalling or criticism. That is what I do not welcome here. If those (now closed) topics were to be left open, they would only act as a catalyst for further argument, and we would not see them leave the top of the post list for quite some time. Do you think that people can discuss any and all subject matter without resorting to the above forementioned?

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp You are free to express all of your opinions. But I ask that if it is something directly from you to me, or anything else personal, put it in a PM or email where it belongs.

Doug · #5 08-23-2002, 04:21 AM

:

Originally posted by Wolfpac
There is no such thing as free speech on the Internet

Justin says there is: "These forums are about free speech and expression" --> See Justin's first post in this thread:

Justin took over the forums because he didn't realize that Sydney owned the forums and he didn't have to allow free speech on them. Now Justin is closing and deleting topics and moving threads to places where people can't respond in order to mold his own version of "free speech."

:

Originally posted by Pilot
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Yes Doug, that is true. They are all about free speech, but for the sake of keeping the pointless arguing to a minimum, posts that are only created for the sake of "raising hell" will be put in their proper place. The words are not, therefore, silenced; they're being put in the appropriate thread where people may view them of their own free will. Notice also that the thread will come back to the top for everyone to see.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp The way I see things is that people can just as well discuss controversial matter without resorting to childish namecalling or criticism. That is what I do not welcome here. If those (now closed) topics were to be left open, they would only act as a catalyst for further argument, and we would not see them leave the top of the post list for quite some time. Do you think that people can discuss any and all subject matter without resorting to the above forementioned?

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp You are free to express all of your opinions. But I ask that if it is something directly from you to me, or anything else personal, put it in a PM or email where it belongs.

I've directed these posts to you, but they are not private. They should be seen so that everyone can consider them and respond as they see fit. Except that you will move them so no one can respond. That's not free speech; that's controlled speech.

You can obviously do anything you want with threads -- you're in control now. Just don't call it free speech. Real free speech for better or for worse often contains childish namecalling, pointlessness, hell-raising and criticism -- lots and lots of criticism.

Wolfpac · #6 08-23-2002, 04:34 AM

Hey, Life's a Bitch - Deal with it.

I'm sure that there was a good reason why this happened, but if you don't like it go and post on the "Word Game Forum"... ummm, The Crazy House... ummm The Glass Alyssum. It's doesn’t matter what you say this is something that won't be changed. And I highly doubt that this is just a Pilot and Abe Babe's idea at an ego trip by getting rid of popular members to give themself the centre stage. So if you don't like it Bitch about it somewhere else, because I'm glad all of those topics were closed. They were all just the same. So just Grow up. Because your opinion means nothing. Which is why we have no free speech here.

Doug · #7 08-23-2002, 04:43 AM

:

Originally posted by Wolfpac
Hey, Life's a Bitch - Deal with it.

I'm sure that there was a good reason why this happened, but if you don't like it go and post on the "Word Game Forum"... ummm, The Crazy House... ummm The Glass Alyssum. It's doesn’t matter what you say this is something that won't be changed. And I highly doubt that this is just a Pilot and Abe Babe's idea at an ego trip by getting rid of popular members to give themself the centre stage. So if you don't like it Bitch about it somewhere else, because I'm glad all of those topics were closed. They were all just the same. So just Grow up. Because your opinion means nothing. Which is why we have no free speech here.

OK. I'll go away. Just to satisfy you. Because you said to. Not.

Actually, I'll go now because I can't be bothered to spend time in a place run by the Stepford Mudokons. But I couldn't leave without reminding Justin and Abe Babe that they should be having trouble sleeping at night.

Pilot · #8 08-23-2002, 04:44 AM

:

Originally posted by Doug

I've directed these posts to you, but they are not private. They should be seen so that everyone can consider them and respond as they see fit. Except that you will move them so no one can respond.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Yes, that's fine. I don't see this topic degrading into any kind of uncivilized argument. We can discuss this like civilized people.

:

That's not free speech; that's controlled speech.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Perceptions differ. We here are all in agreement that people should just let it go... what good will arguing and generally slapping others around about it do?

Kaimana · #9 08-23-2002, 04:47 AM

Justin is right....argueing just doesnt do anything...weve moved on.

Looking into a better future.

Wolfpac · #10 08-23-2002, 04:50 AM

Well if they are as Heartless as you say thay are I'm sure they will really care.

***Cloverfield*** · #11 08-23-2002, 06:57 AM

We are letting people voice their opinions here at OWF, but we also stand up for those who had been abused for their opinions in the past. Many people had been afraid to say what they think just because there was a fear of being abused for their opinions. If people can discuss things civilly, then that is wonderful.

We want to keep the peace. We don't want to see a bunch of abusive posts here and there, pointing fingers at people or telling them they are wrong. Because really, there is no right or wrong. What is right for one person is wrong for another and vice versa. Freedom of speech means that you should be able to say what you feel without being silenced or criticized.

We never intended on silencing anyone, so by moving other "goodbye" threads into the already closed topic, people could say such if they wanted, but also were not leaving things open for argument. The threads here and the one pertaining to OWF at TGA are full of bitchiness and the like. We have made a decision to not have such here, thus why they have been closed. The new outlook and attitude of OWF are to be a friendly forum, in particular when you realize that some younger kids visit here and play the Oddworld games.

Some people like arguments and heated debates. And there are places for it. Thus why The Glass Asylum is an ideal place for such. The members who moved there love to debate and argue... and that is fine. But Oddworld Forums is no longer a place for this.

We have no problems sleeping at night here, as myself and Justin made the decision we did for those who were in fear. Helping people is a good feeling.

Abe Babe...

P.S. I've noticed that many people like to say that Justin has taken over the forums or has corrupted me. I want to say that this is not true, this was a decision made by both of us equally. If anything, he has not taken over the forums, as I am still the administrator. Everything is ultimately approved by me, even though we do make decisions together with Peter.

Jacob · #12 08-23-2002, 06:30 PM

Ok. I thought id speak.

:

Hey, Life's a Bitch - Deal with it.

Indeed it is, but this isn't life...

:

So just Grow up.

If you were old enough (Mentally and physically) you would actually be able to comprehend what Doug was saying.

:

Many people had been afraid to say what they think just because there was a fear of being abused for their opinions.

Im gonna come off a right twat for saying this, but still. Pinky constantly got argued with over her opinions, she wasn't afraid. Many others argued their opinions across, i am presuming that you are talking about the younger generation in which case they shouldn't really be having proper opinions as at their age they are very easily persuaded to say one thing/do one thing. I have witnessed this many times...even with the 'older' members.

Majic · #13 08-23-2002, 08:48 PM

I hate your opinions on that "Children shouldn't have opinions" matter. So because I'm a kid, and its possible for anybody to be influenced, you think we shoudln't talk? Your really to good to hear anything or consider anything from a younger person just because the're young? This topic is about free speech, basicly, and I won't say that your "wrong", but why do you expect nothing? Are we all incapable of decent thoughts?

Jacob · #14 08-23-2002, 09:10 PM

:

(1)I hate your opinions on that "Children shouldn't have opinions" matter.(2) So because I'm a kid,(3) and its possible for anybody to be influenced,(4) you think we shoudln't talk?(5) Your really to good to hear anything or consider anything from a younger person just because the're young?(6) This topic is about free speech, basicly, and I won't say that your "wrong", but why do you expect nothing?(7) Are we all incapable of decent thoughts?

(1) - They should, but they're just shouldn't share them cos, as i have seen, they change them as soon as they're friends say something opposing it...

(2) - Since when have u been a 'kid'?

(3) - Yes. But when your younger its gonna be ALOT easier...

(4) - They should talk...just not about issues they dont understand...

(5) - I listen, i consider...but i also laugh. Cos half the time they have no idea what they are talking about and they're just siding with their friends...

(6) - Or the lack of...

(7) - No. They're not...but its about stupid thoughs...not indecent/decent thoughts...

Majic · #15 08-23-2002, 09:17 PM

I see, so basicly we should stick to our own discussions that you make fun of instead of attempts in an argument we may know at least some about. I don't get it, but suite yourself.

And technicly, I was a kid, More or less still am. I just turned 12 a couple months ago, and you condem all from that age under, Just pointing out.

Anyways, I have this spring stuck in my tounge now, I would like to get it out...

Jacob · #16 08-23-2002, 09:38 PM

:

I see, so basicly we should stick to our own discussions that you make fun of instead of attempts in an argument we may know at least some about. I don't get it, but suite yourself.

By all means join in, but dont get arsy if your opinions get laughed at...

:

And technicly, I was a kid, More or less still am. I just turned 12 a couple months ago, and you condem all from that age under, Just pointing out.

Oh...My...God...

Sydney · #17 08-24-2002, 12:21 AM

:

Originally posted by Abe Babe
We are letting people voice their opinions here at OWF, but we also stand up for those who had been abused for their opinions in the past. Many people had been afraid to say what they think just because there was a fear of being abused for their opinions. If people can discuss things civilly, then that is wonderful.

I'd be delighted for you to point out where I have abused people for their opinions. If you aren't referring to me specifically, then by implication you are suggesting I allowed it to carry on. In which case you are as much at fault as me.

:

Because really, there is no right or wrong. What is right for one person is wrong for another and vice versa.

And you say you haven't been brainwashed by Justin? That's exactly what he was telling me when I told him that removing my power was wrong and constituted theft. It's nonsensical.

I don't want to involve myself in arguments here, I merely want to point out the error of your ways.

What's happened has happened.

Jacob · #18 08-24-2002, 02:07 AM

:

I don't want to involve myself in arguments here, I merely want to point out the error of your ways. What's happened has happened.

I'll follow them through and be the Spokesman and Lawyer for the Glass Asylum...I need something to do until Tuesday anyways...

:

Because really, there is no right or wrong. What is right for one person is wrong for another and vice versa.

Precisely...
So, some people may find it perfectly healthy to love OW to a excess extent...

While normal people do not.

Surfacing · #19 08-24-2002, 06:06 AM

Ok I know I said I wouldn’t be posting here, but at a thread like this I just could not resist.

Pilot, I want to ask some questions, I don't want to start an argument over this, but I would like some answers. What exactly did Sid do to piss you off so much? Was it because he banned the intern's, without a good reason? If it was that why didn’t you just talk to about with him, instead of taking away his Admin Privileges? Was that the only reason you had banned? If no what were the other reasons? Why wasn’t there any warning about what you were going to do? You and Sid were such good friends, you shouldn’t let something this small and insignificant come between the 2 of you.

Jacob · #20 08-24-2002, 11:21 AM

My prediction is that they didn't actually know why they banned him, they just did, hoping that they would be alot of support for it. Deleting my post to avoid controversy they missed Slaskia's and thus when went to delete it realised it had alot of replies...

God, isn't this fun.

Joe the Intern · #21 08-24-2002, 03:21 PM

:

My prediction is that they didn't actually know why they banned him, they just did, hoping that they would be alot of support for it. Deleting my post to avoid controversy they missed Slaskia's and thus when went to delete it realised it had alot of replies...

He banned us simply because we told him we didn't like the way he ran things. Justin, Kristin, and Pete all knew this at the time.

Disgruntled Intern · #22 08-24-2002, 04:04 PM

I thought you all left.

But it looks like you're back!

Yay! Can I get a group hug?

Majic · #23 08-24-2002, 07:21 PM

They can't stay away, can they. I think maybe a fw of Daves insults were in the way of Sydneys mind, but anyways, I wanted to see it reduced to temporary bans.

This is rather old news, I'm getting bored of seeing people still yapping around.

Yay. Group hug.

***Alcar*** · #24 08-25-2002, 07:46 AM

:

Originally posted by Joe the Intern

He banned us simply because we told him we didn't like the way he ran things. Justin, Kristin, and Pete all knew this at the time.

Surfacing, as much as I dislike having to also post here about this dreadful subject, Joe's post has some part in it also.

I also found that when I had said something to Sydney that he would act all high and mighty, and like "Your opinions do not count".

Joe and Dave aren't the only ones.

Alcar...

Jacob · #25 08-25-2002, 08:03 AM

I believe there was also something to do with you telling some sort of secret or sumat...not that i want to stir it.

*Prances away*

***Alcar*** · #26 08-25-2002, 08:19 AM

Like I said I dont want to keep bringing up this subject.

But yes, Sydney reckons I told his secret, which I haven't. And now because he thought I told them, he has openly told everyone he has a secret.

Alcar...

The Sour Slig · #27 08-25-2002, 02:12 PM

I wasn't even here when all this happen, but I'm on Justin's side. As a moderator, you have to make decisions based on what your feelings are on the matter and yet having to keep everybody else pleased. Closing topics that Justin saw as flame filled, childish arguments is a "good call" in my books. If you don't like it, you moderate a forum filled with lots of members in a huge community before you bitch and moan at him. Moderators aren't super humans. They make mistakes like everybody else. You see a mistake? Point it out in a PM, he may have gotten the wrong end of the stick. Nobody sounds convincing when they're moaning and criticising the mod's decisions publicly.

And you say about this "freedom of speech"? Well perhaps if it wasn't abused, then threads wouldn't get locked. Learn how to take part in a debate, maybe. Sure, we all argue now and then, heated discussions aren't too bad. But if there are childish name calling goings on just because different opinions clash, then thats just stupid and is just begging for a moderator's attention at the very least. If you're just having a laugh in a post, make sure you're clear. Arguments can be sparked off for the most stupid of reasons.

And to those who have left... if you're going to return just to bitch and moan, then don't bother. Otherwise, just come back and settle down. I don't think anybody is after any apologies, just that the topic is dropped.

Squinge · #28 08-25-2002, 03:25 PM

:

Originally posted by The Sour Slig
And to those who have left... if you're going to return just to bitch and moan, then don't bother.

Well, Alcar paid TGA a visit last night to do just that. What kind of example is he setting? He even became a member. Then he complained that some folks are nice over here, then say negative things over there. Does he want them to return here to bitch and moan? I've been trying to stay neutral, but I must admit that it is getting more difficult to remain that way. He asked people to drop it, but has not dropped it himself. At TGA, I have asked people to drop it. Now I ask y'all to drop it.This whole thing is getting RIDICULOUS.

***Alcar*** · #29 08-25-2002, 11:12 PM

:

Originally posted by Squinge

Well, Alcar paid TGA a visit last night to do just that. What kind of example is he setting? He even became a member. Then he complained that some folks are nice over here, then say negative things over there. Does he want them to return here to bitch and moan? I've been trying to stay neutral, but I must admit that it is getting more difficult to remain that way. He asked people to drop it, but has not dropped it himself. At TGA, I have asked people to drop it. Now I ask y'all to drop it.This whole thing is getting RIDICULOUS.

I didn't just goe there to bitch and moan, I've said that there please read it.

I posted in those particular topics because some people were posting nonsense about these forums. They reply so I reply back again.

Also, please again check up on what's happening over at TGA, Squinge. I know your a member there too, but I've since then actually become a member that posts normally not just "bitching" (that was if I ever was).

I have dropped it, but when the people who I asked to drop it don't drop it then Im going to try to tell them to drop it again. I wish it would stop as well, it IS ridiculous.

Alcar...

Squinge · #30 08-25-2002, 11:22 PM

I apologise whole-heartedly Alcar. I have been swept up in a verbal war that is not mine. I think I should keep my distance from the whole issue. I hope the OWF prospers.

---PEACE, Squinge