Let's Talk About Abe's Exoddus

[Alf Shall Rise]

Yeah, I always figured it was just because Abe was getting "better at it" in one way or another, and was able to possess more creatures as a result. Although I'm sure it was actually included in the game just to give the player the ability to do so.

[Manco]

The whole point is that Abe is the only slave who has that power. Being able to possess Sligs from the start is suitable. Sure it would work better with some kind of explanation or him discovering his powers, but the mechanic was one of the main focuses of the game so it's easier to look past it.

Actually it’s the opposite – this is one of Abe’s most important abilities and it’s the main weapon he has against his enemies, so why do we get no explanation of how he came to have and control that power?

In AE, there is absolutely NO reason to be able to posses Scrabs and Paramites.

Sure there is: he got ink, received the blessing from the tribes who worshipped Scrabs and Paramites and gained the power of Shrykull (who is some kind of blend of Scrab and Paramite). Why wouldn’t he be able to possess them?

[Nepsotic]

Because he can't in Abe's Oddysee. If it was the scars that gave him that power it was never explicitly stated. It doesn't have to be, but some kind of hint would be nice.

[Moot]

Well I'm the opposite. It's easier to look past that in AE because it's easier to explain away. Possession isn't a power up. He's just better at it or more one with nature and the creatures they worshiped or something. You really don't need a big cutscene showing this I think.

I'd personally say that story telling without obvious cut-scene is better. Look at Dark Souls for examples - the story has a lot of depth, and it hardly has any scenes at all. So I agree!

[Nepsotic]

I totally agree with that, Dark Souls is one of my favourite games, as is Silent Hill 2, but you can't just flip between them. Either have the story take centre stage or make it subtle, but don't just leave out bits that make no sense, unless we're supposed to fill in the gaps ourselves. Thing is, Oddworld up to this point has taught us that that's not what we're supposed to do.

[Moot]

Actually it’s the opposite – this is one of Abe’s most important abilities and it’s the main weapon he has against his enemies, so why do we get no explanation of how he came to have and control that power?

Manco also has a really good point. AO is just as viable to the critic for AE, although I still agree the pacing in AE isn't as effective as AO.

Abe can posses Sligs immediately, without explanation. It's a little daunting, if he could do that the whole time - and if they can all do that, why not escape sooner?

[scorptatious]

Manco also has a really good point. AO is just as viable to the critic for AE, although I still agree the pacing in AE isn't as effective as AO.

Abe can posses Sligs immediately, without explanation. It's a little daunting, if he could do that the whole time - and if they can all do that, why not escape sooner?

Well there's the security orbs that zap you if you try chanting around them. So I would assume that's always been a natural ability among mudokons and the Glukkons took steps to suppress that ability.

Plus, why try and escape and risk getting killed rather then just stick with your cleaning duties, take the occasional beating, and eat some tasty meat products? I'd imagine that would be the mind set of Abe and the other mudokons prior to Abe finding out about the Mudokon Pops.

Also, there were other mudokons before Abe who attempted to escape, but failed. As evidenced by the corpses on pikes seen around the Stockyards.

[Connell]

Mudokons aren't aware that they can chant. Abe only finds out he can chant in Monsaic lines. (Then when you play the game again, you are free to use this ability from the get go, as you now know about it) All Mudokons can chant from birth, but it is fair to assume that as they were born and lived their entire life in the factory, they would be ignorant to this fact.

[Moot]

Well there's the security orbs that zap you if you try chanting around them. So I would assume that's always been a natural ability among mudokons and the Glukkons took steps to suppress that ability.

Plus, why try and escape and risk getting killed rather then just stick with your cleaning duties, take the occasional beating, and eat some tasty meat products? I'd imagine that would be the mind set of Abe and the other mudokons prior to Abe finding out about the Mudokon Pops.

Also, there were other mudokons before Abe who attempted to escape, but failed. As evidenced by the corpses on pikes seen around the Stockyards.

Of course. It's pretty explicit that Abe was pretty content with his life, and it's very evident that there's been several generations with the same mindset. Abe doesn't even know his culture, which is one of the interesting aspects, we're learning with him. I was more so just making an argument.

However, I completely forgot about the Suppressors. That's a good point! Also, can anyone confirm the correlation to Mudokons, and their color? Are shamans all blue, or is just Abe, ect..?

[RoryF]

Couldn't you potentially use Paul's editor to edit the level transitions so that rather than using the hub, you could skip straight to the next area? Might be worth a try and seeing if it's any better that way.

[Manco]

Mudokons aren't aware that they can chant. Abe only finds out he can chant in Monsaic lines. (Then when you play the game again, you are free to use this ability from the get go, as you now know about it) All Mudokons can chant from birth, but it is fair to assume that as they were born and lived their entire life in the factory, they would be ignorant to this fact.

But canonically Abe rescues every Mudokon in RuptureFarms. How can he do that if he didn’t know how to chant until after he escaped?

[Vlam]

On a side note, happy to see you guys talking about Oddworld (and not the ARG).

[Connell]

But canonically Abe rescues every Mudokon in RuptureFarms. How can he do that if he didn’t know how to chant until after he escaped?

[Nepsotic]

Couldn't you potentially use Paul's editor to edit the level transitions so that rather than using the hub, you could skip straight to the next area? Might be worth a try and seeing if it's any better that way.

Someone should make a mod of AE which completely eliminates the SoulStorm and Vault hubs. I might try to do that but I have no idea how to use Paul's editor.

[Connell]

Someone should make a mod of AE which completely eliminates the SoulStorm and Vault hubs. I might try to do that but I have no idea how to use Paul's editor.

I got really damn good at it years ago, I had such a nifty level in the works I had toiled over, but I couldn't remember for the life of me now how it all works. But this definitely is a good idea.

[RoryF]

I haven't got AE installed on this machine, but it should be quite simple. I'd open up the hub path and click on the door objects to find out what path or level IDs they point to. Making note of them you could go through each path and replace the door that leads to the hub with the level/path ID of the next area so it's a linear thing. It's a little tedious job but it should work.

[kjjcarpenter]

But canonically Abe rescues every Mudokon in RuptureFarms. How can he do that if he didn’t know how to chant until after he escaped?

That sign about all employees being killed is meta, so there's no reason why he couldn't rescue them upon his return. It makes a lot more sense. I think Abe fleeing RuptureFarms would have been a straight dash for the exit.

I think it's pretty much confirmed that—from a storytelling perspective—he only learns to chant at the Monsaic Lines. Isn't the first story stone that tells players about possession in the Monsaic Lines anyway?

[Varrok]

That sign about all employees being killed is meta, so there's no reason why he couldn't rescue them upon his return. It makes a lot more sense. I think Abe fleeing RuptureFarms would have been a straight dash for the exit.

Have you heard about a general tactics in Auschwitz where for one escapee they killed a dozen of others, so the prisoners didn't want to escape in exchange for other people's lives? Source

That does make sense.

[kjjcarpenter]

Have you heard about a general tactics in Auschwitz where for one escapee they killed a dozen of others, so the prisoners didn't want to escape in exchange for other people's lives? Source

That does make sense.

Sure, it makes sense. But I don't think that's the intention. Or it might be, who knows. I just thought it was generally accepted that Abe's escape was a solitary venture—akin to how most of us would have played the game on our first time.

[Manco]

I don’t think that’s ever been confirmed, so I think we have to assume that the Mudokons in Zulag 1 do exist and are rescued.

[Varrok]

The sign does not mention Abe in any way, I see it as a warning to any foolish mudokon, who would try to escape the heavy guarded concentration camp facility. I totally think it is the ingame intention. AO was made by tens of people, almost everything in the game has a meaning to it.

[Connell]

The fact of the matter is, Abe DOES save those Mudokons as he's leaving in the first segment of the game, if he doesn't they'd be dead canonically. So Manco is right, it doesn't make sense that Abe knows to chant at the beginning of the game. However, Abe doesn't know he can possess Sligs at this point, that's still learnt in Monsaic lines canonically. The saving the 28 is just a plot hole, really.

Of course we know from behind the scenes details the reason you can chant from the get go is because they thought it was too late to bring the whole saving Mudokons gameplay mechanic in as late as the return to Rupture Farms, which they felt would be too late in the game to introduce chanting AND gamespeak.

[kjjcarpenter]

Or, you know, the gameplay could not be canonical, because it's a game and merely a way of representing of a story.

[Moot]

Or, you know, the gameplay could not be canonical, because it's a game and merely a way of representing of a story.

But that's the argument, we're comparing AO and AE. Is there harmony between mechanics/gameplay and the storytelling? Which game has the least dissonance in this sense?

Chucking it down to "gameplay for gameplays sake" isn't really the point!

[Connell]

Or, you know, the gameplay could not be canonical, because it's a game and merely a way of representing of a story.

That's such a stupid way of looking at it. If the gameplay isn't canonical, then what the fuck is? I don't even really understand your point. Are you saying the game isn't canonical to itself? Besides, we're specifically analysing the integrity of the narrative and you're like "hurr durr or you could stop and realise it's just a game". These games strive to have a cohesive and engaging storyline.

[Havoc]

The whole point is that Abe is the only slave who has that power. Being able to possess Sligs from the start is suitable. Sure it would work better with some kind of explanation or him discovering his powers, but the mechanic was one of the main focuses of the game so it's easier to look past it. In AE, there is absolutely NO reason to be able to posses Scrabs and Paramites.

I've always 'justified' that as him having gotten that ability by receiving the scars. Which would make sense in a way. On the other hand, why would he be able to possess some creatures but not others?

[Manco]

That's such a stupid way of looking at it. If the gameplay isn't canonical, then what the fuck is? I don't even really understand your point. Are you saying the game isn't canonical to itself? Besides, we're specifically analysing the integrity of the narrative and you're like "hurr durr or you could stop and realise it's just a game". These games strive to have a cohesive and engaging storyline.

What he said, but: chill, yo.

I've always 'justified' that as him having gotten that ability by receiving the scars. Which would make sense in a way. On the other hand, why would he be able to possess some creatures but not others?

Perhaps there’s a baseline of intelligence or brain size required? Over the course of AO/AE/MO Abe can possess every species encountered except:

• Mudokons, Elum and Munch (which can be justified as Abe not wanting or needing to)
• Bees, Bats, Fleeches, Slurgs and Fuzzles (all of which are comparable to small bugs or rodents)

[Vlam]

If I am allowed to say: New 'n' Tasty is the real canon now (unlike AO).

[STM]

Did Lorne actually say AO is retconned? Moreover, they're still exactly the same, storyline-wise, so I don't get your point, Vlam.

[Vlam]

My point is: why aren't you talking about New 'n' Tasty (instead of AO)?