Of Climate change, Climategate, and other stuff

looney-bin · #1 12-20-2009, 01:12 AM

In recent months, governments across the globe have been trying to address the apparent issue of man-made climate change, the lack of any real action on the issue in past years, and what to do about it. The meeting at Copenhagen was intended so that world leaders could make an agreement, but it has been labeled as unsuccessful by nearly everyone involved. Those who don't believe in AGW claim it was a waste of time because they feel politicans and the media are blindly ignoring the other side of arguement of this fairly new thesis, while people who do believe in AGW did not feel satisfied that the meeting came down to basically nothing but all talk and no actual action being put forward. It hasn't really helped that e-mails had been leaked from the University of East Anglia (a main centre in climate research) that have potentially discredited the scientists stationed there.

Inspite of all this, what do you think of the issue? How do you feel about the media hype and the conspiracy theories and all this other stuff?

Taco · #2 12-20-2009, 01:55 AM

I don't really care about the issue. Yes the climate is changing and is probably being affected negatively by us humans, but it's a bit hard to get all humans of different nationalities to co-operate and make the world a better place. It's simply not going to happen. Why? Because humans are humans. We're the species that has people who say "fuck the future and the children, I don't care about climate change because according to all the valid and reliable information on the INTERNET, the world is ending on 2012. hurr durr Quetzalcoatl is going to emerge from Nibiru after it collides with Earth and consume everyone."

Pilot · #3 12-20-2009, 04:23 PM

Well.... just because one might think that global warming is a con doesn't mean they absolutely feel that planet doesn't need our care and attention.

slig# 5719 · #4 12-20-2009, 04:39 PM

Well apparently global warming is going to cause the world to:
Dry up, flood, freeze... Something tells me they don't know what they're talking about.

Climate change happens it's normal. Humanity may be speeding it up slightly but nothing much. We just want to feel like we're making a difference. Plus the fact that we're obsessed with end of the world theories.

The polar ice caps weren't always there so why would they stay there? Many deserts used to be jungles, forests or swamps and maybe will be again in the next several thousand years. The world isn't going to stay the same, change is natural.

Havoc · #5 12-20-2009, 07:25 PM

Global warming does not exist. At least not the kind described in the media. Our influence on the global planet temperature is almost non existant. The planet is just going through a cycle like it has been doing for the last 6 million years. Hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, iceage, fucking hot, cold. That's how it goes.

So yeah, the fucking obsession with nature and environment is complete bullshit, especially if I hear my local government is going to pump 300 million euro a year into fighting a problem that doesn't exist. We're in the middle of a financial fucking crisis!

However, the things that are being done to lessen the amount of CO2 we pump into the air can never be a bad thing. I'm sure the ozone layer will be very thankful for that, but right now governments are overdoing it a LOT. They should be focusing on other stuff, like solving the stupid financial crisis and getting the fuck out of Iraq.

Wings of Fire · #6 12-20-2009, 07:28 PM

Nice bit of folk ecology from all present.

It exists, our lifestyles will have to change. Get the fuck over it.

Havoc · #7 12-20-2009, 07:31 PM

I would happily change my lifestyle if it wouldn't cost me even more money. Here's how my electricity provider thinks about global warming:

Power from coal, oil and gas are the base price for our electricity prices. If you want power from clean sources like wind, sun and water, that's going to cost you like 30 bux a month extra.

I mean... seriously.

Wings of Fire · #8 12-20-2009, 07:33 PM

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I would happily change my lifestyle if it wouldn't cost me even more money.

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Of course energy companies are going about it the wrong way, they want to make a profit. The sooner governments realize this is the sooner actual steps will be taken towards resolution.

Havoc · #9 12-20-2009, 07:37 PM

Actually I've been looking into getting some solar panels on my roof. There is funding available from the government for that sort of stuff and apparently you generate enough electricity with those things to earn back the cost of the panels over a period of 20 years. The average lifespan of a solar panel is rated at 25 years, so you'd get like 5 years of 'cheaper' electricity in your home.

Downside is that the initial investment is around 20.000 euro for a set of decent panels that can actually power more than one electric toothbrush for 2 minutes.

Pilot · #10 12-20-2009, 07:54 PM

We wouldn't be interested in improving the planet on such a wide scale if corporate cronies weren't banking on the cause.

Would a majority of us care, if we weren't asked to buy fluorescent light bulbs?

Havoc · #11 12-20-2009, 08:14 PM

I personally don't give a shit. If the global temp goes up by 1 or 2 degrees, fine by me. Warmer summers, less cold winters. And as Dutchies will say FUCK YOU to the rising sea level. We'll build a 2KM high wall around the country if that's what it takes, but we will hold it back. We have done it not once, not twice, but three times already and we can do it again.

Only reason I'm interested in planet improving non-sense is because certain parts of it, like said solar panels, electric cars and low energy lightbulbs, save me tons of money. On the other hand, bullshit projects like a 2 billion euro windmill park in the North Sea that can power 250.000 homes costs me money because the government doesn't know how to decently spend their tax money.

So it all cancels each other out in the end, thus me not caring.

***Nate*** · #12 12-20-2009, 08:58 PM

What about the increased cost to you of building the 2km high wall and the cost of running the air conditioning harder to compensate for the increase in temperature (which, in any case, is likely to be much more than 1 or 2 degrees)?

I suspect that the cost may well end up being more than 30 dollars a month.

abe is now! · #13 12-21-2009, 02:49 AM

I remember the thread I started about Global Warming and it was spam's kingdom... At least name this thread Global Warming V2!

***Wil*** · #14 12-21-2009, 04:27 AM

The leaked emails from the UEA don't discredit their research at all. It's just science-noobs and media drama queens not understanding how science works. Which is not news to anyone who's dismayed at the anthropogenic climate change deniers.

looney-bin · #15 12-21-2009, 07:45 AM

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The leaked emails from the UEA don't discredit their research at all.

It raises some questions to say the least. Afterall, a number of people involved on the research were influenced by these particular university profs.

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It's just science-noobs and media drama queens not understanding how science works.

Science is about debate on thesis and trying to find a better understanding on things so we can improve ourselves, not about being given money by the government so evidence is bias in favour of their latest campaign of the decade. Look at the David Nutt incident. He didn't agree with the drug classification system, and he got sacked.
It's not like there isn't a possibility of AGW and we do need to look at alternative fuel and power resources, but fresh debates need to be put inplace without politicans trying to influence a side and grabbing a reason to scare the public into paying into this, that and the other.

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Which is not news to anyone who's dismayed at the anthropogenic climate change deniers.

So I take it you don't want a patio heater for Christmas.

Bullet Magnet · #16 12-22-2009, 04:56 AM

used:) · #17 12-22-2009, 08:04 AM

Because the moneyz. The precious moneyz.

looney-bin · #18 12-22-2009, 08:10 AM

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Shouldn't we be trying to achieve those things anyway without having to scare the public into possibly paying carbon tax?

***Wil*** · #19 12-22-2009, 08:14 AM

What's the point of money if it's not making the world better/preventing it from getting worse?

looney-bin · #20 12-22-2009, 08:19 AM

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What's the point of money if it's not making the world better/preventing it from getting worse?

Because incase you haven't noticed, the economy is in the shitter ATM. I think that needs to be fixed first before we really start mass growing biofuel and building solar powerplants to replace the coal plants (which Im all for).

Havoc · #21 12-22-2009, 08:49 AM

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What's the point of money if it's not making the world better/preventing it from getting worse?

Spending it on things that make the world a worse place, of course. Like giant hummers, guns, hookers and booze.

***Wil*** · #22 12-22-2009, 12:14 PM

That's true. I could have bought several wind generators with the amount I've spent on nights out. How outrageously selfish of me.

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Because incase you haven't noticed, the economy is in the shitter ATM. I think that needs to be fixed first before we really start mass growing biofuel and building solar powerplants to replace the coal plants (which Im all for).

You're all for coal plants, or replacing them with greener alternatives?

Besides, it isn't hard to see how much more economies will be screwed under climate change. Just requires a longer-term perspective.

looney-bin · #23 12-22-2009, 01:42 PM

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You're all for coal plants, or replacing them with greener alternatives?

The latter, although decent solar plants would have to be built first.

I just don't like the elitesm of this campaign. The whole "This is all because of you lot and you should feel bad" attitude that surrounds ecomentalists and politicans is what drives people into refusing to do anything. If the cause was driven by honest people that just want to help rather than Greenpeace loonatics and MPs possibly wanting to make money off carbon emissions, then I wouldn't have a problem.

***Wil*** · #24 12-22-2009, 01:48 PM

I think you'll find that there are a lot of politicians that genuinely want to do the right thing, and that a tremendous number of Greenpeace members are sensible, well-behaved people. Don't let the attention-grabbing extremities spoil your view of a whole bunch of people.

As for politicians specifically, even if they want to do the right thing there are practical considerations that mean they can't consider money a low priority.

Bullet Magnet · #25 12-22-2009, 01:56 PM

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Shouldn't we be trying to achieve those things anyway without having to scare the public into possibly paying carbon tax?

A person can be a thoughtful, educated individual with good-intentions who makes an effort. But people are idiots. Morons of the highest order, who would burn down virgin forests to make their Monday mornings slightly easier so long as the effects are not immediately noticeable from their kitchen windows.

I would tax the hell out of the general population just to prevent this (since discorouging short-sighted behaviour at the point of retail-consumer interaction is the most effective way of making big differences), and would not stop until they grew up. I would not bother to make plans for this "possibility," however.

This is us, trying to acheive these goals. We always wanted to, regardless of anything else. One way or another, energy independance, preservatin of rainforests, sustainability, green jobs and renewable energy at least are going to occur. It's just a question of whether we slip into this world with modern technological solutions willingly, or those of us who are left are forced to do so just to survive, in which renewable energy goes no further than log fires and rickety wooden windmills.

***Nate*** · #26 12-22-2009, 03:01 PM

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Because incase you haven't noticed, the economy is in the shitter ATM. I think that needs to be fixed first before we really start mass growing biofuel and building solar powerplants to replace the coal plants (which Im all for).

Except that the massive investment involved in this would probably be the best approach to solving the economy and increasing employment.

enchilado · #27 12-22-2009, 03:31 PM

I don't believe in man-made global warming, but I do think we should ease up on raping the Earth.

However, please believe in it; people who're scared are more likely to help make the world a better place

(though all I care about is the internet anyway)

STM · #28 01-09-2010, 04:42 AM

I think that we probably should do something, we can the climate chaos that's going on now, look at all this sudden snow! A mini Ice Age!

Anyone seen the British TV ad with the child and the storybook and all the animals are drowning? XD

abe is now! · #29 01-09-2010, 08:47 AM

:

I don't believe in man-made global warming, but I do think we should ease up on raping the Earth.

However, please believe in it; people who're scared are more likely to help make the world a better place

(though all I care about is the internet anyway)

I live in a place where every winter about 60 years ago it snowed so much that from Novemeber to March the snow stayed icy on the ground and one metres deep. Now here it's raining; it sometimes snow (twice or three times every year) but after one day it melts and then rain and rain again. Yes, I believe in global warming, how could I explain this fact anyway?