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  #1  
11-10-2001, 01:03 AM
landomeMUNCH
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Why is IGN Gay?

I don't understand...everyone else that has reviewed Munch says it is a extremely great game. But IGN gives it a 7.4?!?!?!?! that is total BS, they have to be smoking something, or they're playing a different game.

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  #2  
11-10-2001, 01:17 AM
Steel Shark
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I cannot agree more. I was just coming to post about this myself LandomeMunch.

They lose alot of credibility from me for this. For God's sake that is by far the lowest score it will get from anyplace, just watch and see. I would call what I know of the game just as I see it, despite my going in very positively, but I have gotten a taste and this game is sooo much better than a C+. It's like saying the originals for there time were C's, just no excuse for a very blatant put down on a very original and top notch game. A real pity. But most real lovers of Oddworld and games in general know what's up with the game in the long run.
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  #3  
11-10-2001, 01:28 AM
landomeMUNCH
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I'm tired of IGNs BS (sometimes I think they get their funds from different companies *cough* sony *cough*) and I just cancelled my insider account with them.

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  #4  
11-10-2001, 01:29 AM
Chris Co Depot
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hey it won't let we look at it, could you post the review here?

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  #5  
11-10-2001, 01:32 AM
landomeMUNCH
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Sure I already saved it for something like this, one sec.

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  #6  
11-10-2001, 01:33 AM
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Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee

Insiders: Does Munch live up to Abe's legacy?

November 9, 2001


Getting the second in the Oddworld series right as it was beginning to build up steam on the PS2 was a coup to Sony's marketing might. Abe had become one of the unofficial mascots of the PlayStation (along with Spyro, another PS deserter), and was one of the handful of characters that exemplified PlayStation's adult and mature approach to the platformer. No collecting coins, no dumb "kooky" character designs… just a dark, death-filled comic adventure featuring a thing with a stitched up mouth.
Now Abe, and Munch, are under Microsoft's umbrella. The company did the right thing by buying up a few existing franchises to complement its homegrown ones, and while it seems a bit cold, this is a business -- and if you're going to lure kids away from the competition, the scent of Abe, Scrabs and Glukkons doesn't get any sweeter. Another category had been filled, and the Xbox launch now had an official launch platformer, and not just any old character, but one of the best. There was just one little problem… fattening Abe up.

Abe's Oddysee was an old-school tribute to games like Prince of Persia back on the PlayStation, where 3D had taken hold. But for the next-generation, the Oddworld team opted to finally bring the characters into a 3D universe. The initial demos seemed like Abe was going to be the PlayStation 2 equivalent of Zelda, with promises of monster-raising, seasons, tribal warfare and a huge, evolving world to explore. But the question is, did the final result on the Xbox meet any of those promises, or more importantly, expectations? Unfortunately, Abe and Munch's gameplay on the Xbox comes off as clumsy as their character counterparts.

Gameplay
In Oddworld, you played as a former slave/worker that, almost despite himself, rose to lead his Mudokon people against the evil corporate scumbags the Glukkons. In Munch you're introduced to a new race, the Gabbits, who have been driven to extinction simply because their lungs happen to match the chain-smoking Glukkon's size and fit for replacement surgery. To make matters worse, Munch has been implanted with a sonic device by the Vykkers in an experiment, and is to be used to capture more creatures. With the help of the Fuzzles, big-toothed fuzzballs used for product testing, Munch escapes, meets up with Abe, and together they set out to stop the Glukkons at their game… not to mention win back the last can of Gabbiar -- Gabbit eggs -- in the world.

If you've played the other Abe games, you'll be familiar with the general controls -- mind control with a trigger, gamespeak with most of the buttons, and a general action button that allows you to jump, throw characters, and trigger levers and buttons. Munch is similar, though his special power is to control mechanical objects through special terminals peppered throughout specific levels. Just as in Oddworld, the game is built more one death puzzles than exploration, and usually you'll be trying to figure out how to get Abe and Munch (and usually some Fuzzles and Mudokons) to a specific point, usually through a set of mines/sligs/scrabs/paramites. The biggest difference is that now, you can command your Mudokons and Fuzzles to attack, using them as your troop of warriors to help you get through specific points in the game.

It's an odd choice, but the designers have actually opted to make the game smaller, rather than larger in the jump to 3D environments. While the original Oddworld had Abe running through massive environments -- albeit on a screen by screen basis -- Munch keeps the 3D environments small and contained, at times so small that you're able to see the exit from where you appear at the entrance of the level. The world of Oddworld is sliced up into tiny bite-sized pieces, and levels are no longer environments, they're sections of the game to beat. You work your way through a level, free Mudokons, find the exit pads, and transport to the next level. Repeat. No longer is the game seamless and driven by the storyline -- it's a bunch of puzzles with slices of cutscene in between for flavor. As you get farther into the game you'll be introduced to new game concepts, like using a crane to launch bombs, or working with both characters to get past obstacles, but the overall structure is more akin to a puzzle game than a platformer or adventure.

This becomes most apparent when you realize that you've got to get a group of characters across a bunch of obstacles -- usually by hand. You'll use Abe to open a door, send Munch through it, walk Abe through, find Mudokons, toss them into transport holes that will send them flying closer to where you want, then free them… then go back and bring Munch all the way to the exit. The fact that every level plays out in the same way, with the details changed, makes this more repetitive than it should be. The obstacles, despite minor changes, still require the same solutions, and the action is always about repeating tasks and running and back and forth through areas rather than exploring environments, or learning new tasks. Most importantly, the puzzles themselves, once you've had a change to learn the obstacles involved, are mainly about actually going through the tasks at a slow pace, killing or disabling all obstacles, rather than enjoying fast action sequences, or figuring out a particularly tough puzzle. You know that you've got to get through sligs to pull a switch to get Munch through, because you've done a similar task 15 times before. Grumble all you want, but yes, most of the time you'll have to take out ever Slig and carry every character to a location if you have to do it with one. This wouldn't be half as bad if games like Ico proved that you could do the same sort of gameplay without the repetition or meticulous mood. That being said, there are some great moments, such as when you've got to "herd" huge groups of Scrabs into pens, then lock them inside in order to free a group of Mudokons and get them through a pasture safely. Those types of levels are far and few between, however. The original Oddworld pulled off this sort of repetition because the environments changed regularly, the tasks were kept short and fast, and new challenges were introduced regularly -- not to mention that Abe's journey was enthralling enough to keep you going.

Munch, however, has a definite pacing problem that keeps the game from either pulling you along through the story, or through the gameplay. Individual ideas are fun, like being able to take over a Sleeper or toss a bomb on a sleeping Slig from overhead, but in execution they're lacking the speed, spark, and stress that make games great. Because the levels toss you in and out through teleportation, there's also no connection from level to level, and until the last third of the game, no real sense of where you're going, or why. When you visit the Raisin for the first time to get your quest you'll scratch your head wondering how you got there in the first place. In fact, the cutscenes tend to show you all the aspects of the game that you wish you could have played. If you snuck onto an airship to get into the Vykker floating lab, why not make that a level of a game instead of a cutscene after you finish another unconnected level in a factory? If you take out a factory by sabotaging it, why not make that a part of the game instead of a cutscene after simply reaching the other end of a level? Again, it's the repetition, and lack of variety that makes Munch suffer. You don't just take over one executive and have him give money toward's your "Gabbiare fundraising" account, you have to do it with two handfuls of them over a set of levels, and so on.

There are moments when the gameplay works, like one level that has you commanding cranes and a Big Brother Slig, dodging mines and commanding an Executive. Near the end of the game things get denser, and the gameplay becomes more satisfying, given that more and more pieces of the game have been introduced, and the difficulty level is raised higher. The introduction of group commands, and generally using Fuzzles and Mudokons as an army, is also one of the high points of Munch. While you may not enjoy having to hand-transform every one of your Mudokons into tomahawks, or into arrow-firing marksmen, you'll love watching them nail some Sligs on your command. Fuzzles especially, particularly when you get revenge on the Big Brother Sligs that will cause you so many headaches later in the game.

It's a hard pairing -- the love you have for the series and the characters still transfers into the dialogue, character design, and personalities of the Oddworld heroes… but the gameplay just doesn't fit with the fun you enjoyed on the original game.

Control
Part of the problem with the repetition of the game also comes in the control scheme, which was obviously meant to be easier, but ends up making the game more frustrating than anything else. Jumping is erratic and so fast that you'll spend extra seconds just trying to do simple tasks, like hop onto a box. Having one action button is great in theory, but trying to pick up Mudokons and carry them when Abe won't stop jumping is more trouble than it should be. While some people have complained about the gamespeak, I didn't have problems with the characters listening to me, though I found that having them attack enemies was a hit and miss affair. Sometimes they'd charge forward on your command, while other times they'd shrug their shoulders and cry "nothing to do, Abe!" while their pals were being smacked by Sligs a few feet away.

The introduction of vending machines to give you power ups seems like a great idea, but once again, it also slows down the gameplay -- to beat a set of Big Brother Sligs high up on posts, you'll have to drink health, aqua bounce, and zap, go kill two, swim back and drink all three again, and repeat. Powers are great, but having to repeat them again and again shouldn't be what gameplay is about.

Graphics
The subtleties of Munch are impressive -- a level may not look dense, but watch the lighting as it plays over characters and structures. Clouds leave shadows on the ground, the water reflects when under the direct glare of the sun, and tons of characters appear onscreen without a hiccup.

Unfortunately there's little variety to the levels, and you'll find yourself either inside a factory, or outside in the hillsides of Oddworld. That's not to say there aren't some gasp moments, such as the large gear-filled level from the early demos, and a huge reservoir that you have to explore and raise the water level in… but there's just not the variety that was hinted at in the original demos of the game, and there's no exploration of other unique environments like the forest briefly shown off in the early moments of the game.

The camera also stays so far back that it's hard to notice some of the nice details on the characters in the game -- it's meant to keep the camera from getting in the way, but it also makes the game appear less visually impressive than it actually is. Munch has a nice look, and the characters are still filled with that same charm from the other games, but there's a lack of variety here that keeps the game from grabbing your attention after the first five or six levels. As a side note, you'll be disappointed if you're a fan of the series like I am, and expected to see all the initial objects from the first demos in the game itself, like seasons, flying ships, being able to change the environments dynamically by your actions, and so on.

Cutscenes are just as wonderful and funky as all the previous Oddworld efforts, especially the opening movie introducing the plight of the Gabbits, and poor Munch's implant. The Raisin is another highlight, as is the sight of the Lulu the Glukkon decked out in rockstar gear.

Sound
The voices are incredible -- did you expect anything less? Lorne Lanning does most of the characters in the game, and they're filled with the same brutal humor and funny quips as the other games. The Vykkers and Fuzzles are funny additions especially the creepy chirping and coos of the little round beasts… right before they chomp into an enemy. Sound effects are mostly from earlier games in the series, but of the same high quality that you've come to expect.

Music-wise, things are kept minimal, with a few repeated tracks for stressful moments… a little too repeated, by the time you're at the end of the game. Dynamic as they are, you'll still find yourself wishing for more than the same couple of loops pumped up when you're trying to get through a group of Sligs, or around a minefield.

Comments

What made the first Oddworld so fantastic was the integration of story, action, art design and sour humor that made it one of the most polished packages I've ever seen on a console. You may not have enjoyed the 2D Prince of Persia style gameplay, or maybe you didn't like the creepy character design -- but as a package, it was hard to argue that Oddworld as a whole was the product of a unique company, and a unique mind. Those of us that loved every bit of the original game -- and I'm one of them -- felt like we'd finally found a platform game for grown ups.

Munch is also that, but only in spurts and moments. The jump to 3D has been a tough one on the series, and rather than tweak the game design altogether, they opted to mimic the 2D "learn from death" style, which plays out as slow, repetitive, and at times tedious in the large and more complex 3D environments. What's worse is that the game and the storyline aren't integrated at all, with cutscenes wedged betweens levels that have no thematic connection.

The final product comes off as anything but polished, and suffers from a lack of variety, and an overabundance of repetition that keeps this game from truly shining like I wished it would. As much as I like the characters and the design of the new Munch game, I'm still hoping for the true spiritual sequel to my good old Abe.

--Vincent Lopez




Presentation
Options and extras are super-designed to perfection, all in the unique Oddworld style. 9.5
Graphics
While some details are incredible in Munch, the lack of variety makes the overall product much less impressive than it should be. 8.0
Sound
Voice acting is amazing, as you'd expect, but the music can become repetitive, especially when you're playing for hours at a time. 8.5
Gameplay
In short, it's just not fun. Actions and goals are drawn out, simple tasks are made frustrating by the controls, and overall there's not enough charm to mask the repetition. 5.5
Lasting Appeal
The game will give you a good, healthy chunk of play time, but you may not be interested enough to play this one through to the end. 6.0
OVERALL SCORE (not an average)
7.4

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  #7  
11-10-2001, 01:34 AM
Chris Co Depot
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thanx

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  #8  
11-10-2001, 01:35 AM
landomeMUNCH
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no prob


A quote from Xbox.com:

:
Oddworld, now in "new and improved 3D!" - it's a whole new Oddworld, with lush rivers, towering mountains and hundreds of trees that bloom or die. Graphics so amazing, only the Xbox can bring them to life.

"Frustration Free" gaming - Oddworld's new intelligent cinematic camera, auto-targeting system and no-stick navigation system makes playing a breeze!
[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: landomeMUNCH ]

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  #9  
11-10-2001, 03:03 AM
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sounds like people are still mad about the sony/xbox switch. jebus cripes people! they say it like the PS2 could make munch better than if it was on the BOX. i think youre right landomeMunch. Sony must be funding them one or the other. either that, or the are begrudged sony fans.
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  #10  
11-10-2001, 03:59 AM
Sydney
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It's really annoying when people use the word gay synonymously with bad.

That's strange that Vincent Lopez has said bad things about Munch's Oddysee, because he was the person at IGN who often covered Oddworld stories and always expressed excitement about the game, even after its move to Xbox. In one of his articles, he even linked to Oddworldian at the end!
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  #11  
11-10-2001, 05:38 AM
landomeMUNCH
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I'm sorry if the term "gay" offended you, it is just a habit (maybe it's cause I have a little 11 year old sister) but, I'll try not to use it anymore.

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  #12  
11-10-2001, 06:49 AM
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Despite the fact that this was a bad review of Munch's Oddysee, it gives us many hints on the game, which I'd rate them "HUGE SPOILERS".

Anyway, this topic might be the first one to be moved to the "SPOILERS" forum.
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  #13  
11-10-2001, 08:23 AM
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I think the guy is too stupid to like the game. Read the report: how repetitive is that, huh? He's just not smart enough to do everyhthing right from the first or second time. I doubt he even likes videogames. Everything he described sounds good to me, and he rates it bad. Sorry, but I like a game that takes its time to develop. When you play Oddworld, you relax, think a little and play. You don't rush through it like a racing game or a FPS. It's not because it's not YOUR style that you have to rate it as bad. Jukkes, it makes me sick when people are so subjective when reporting.
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  #14  
11-10-2001, 10:43 AM
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I didn't read the review *shifts eyes nervously* gotta avoid them spoilers...But with concern to Oddipus's post about the guy not understanding everything, I hate it when that happens. People give bad reviews to games that they don't understand. They are all like 'Well, for some reason _____ happens, but if I ______ then it doesn't". Most of these 'confusing' parts are explained in the instruction manual!! People should actually take more time to play games, so that they can learn how to work them...and should always read the instruction manual...
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  #15  
11-11-2001, 01:55 PM
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I have to admit, I can see why the guy didn't like the game. But that isn't gonna stop me from hoping it caomes out on PC. Munch and Abe could be friggn' stick people and I would probably still like it.
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  #16  
11-12-2001, 04:20 PM
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Don't worry about them. they don't know anything. We do and thats what counts. at least we know Oddworld.
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  #17  
11-12-2001, 05:25 PM
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hey I can read the review on the official site now... cool.

This guy is stupid

:
Gameplay
In short, it's just not fun. Actions and goals are drawn out, simple tasks are made frustrating by the controls, and overall there's not enough charm to mask the repetition.

CRAZY !!!

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  #18  
11-12-2001, 11:29 PM
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First of all, this is what we call an OPINION. OPINIONS are not always what you would like them to be, and that's just the way life is. Get used to it.

Second of all, stupidity is not disliking Oddworld, stupidity is cancelling your IGN Insider subscription because of a review. A rewiew, for Christ's sake! What are you, three years old!? ("Timmy doesn't like chocolate ice cream, so I'm not his friend any more!") This all goes back to that OPINION thing I was talking about. If you get this angry every time someone has a different OPINION than you, you are not going to have many friends or get very far in life.

Third, did it ever cross your mind that maybe this guy is right? I mean, have you actually played the game? Instead of getting all crazy when someone gives your beloved Munch a bad review, why don't you stop and think, "Hmm... Maybe it isn't such a spectacular game after all?" I mean, it IS a proffessional opinion. The review over at Gamespot was 7.9. At TeamXbox, it got a 4.1 (Out of 5). Maybe the game is just a "good" game. Not a spectacular game. Not an amazingly amazing game. Just good. However, if you get the game and love it, then great. You have a different OPINION than IGN.

There is nothing wrong with not liking Munch's Oddysee. There is still Hand of Odd, Munch's Exoddus, Squeek's Oddyssee, and so on to look forward to. There is Abe's Exoddus and Abe's Oddyssee to play and love. After all, this is Oddworld Forums, not Munch's Oddyssee Forums.

I think the problem is that all of our expectations of the game were too high. We talk about it for two years, it keeps looking better and better, we buy xboxes JUST for Munch, then the game just turns out to be good. Not revolutionary, but good.
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  #19  
11-12-2001, 11:41 PM
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Daniel..Your babbling! LOL j/k

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  #20  
11-13-2001, 02:11 AM
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conju, I wasn't paying for it anyway. I just will use my friend's nameif I want to see anything. What's with all the attacks, jeez...what did I ever do to you? :confuzzled: Also many people base their buys on reviews (me) and I usually don't buy games below a 7, and by the way I have many friends, but I don't compare my games with my friends (what's up with that?) I just thought I'd speak my mind, because I disagree a lot with what IGN has to say about most games.

[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: landomeMUNCH ]

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  #21  
11-13-2001, 03:10 AM
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Landome, sorry about sounding so... well... mean about what I said, but it's all true. There isn't really a nice way to put it. You didn't do anything to me, but when someone is acting like an idiot (Again, there's no real nice way to put it), I'll "attack" them. I'm glad you're more mature than I thought, and maybe we can be civilized about this. To be honest, I was expecting something like, "F*CK YOU, DB! YOU'RE A F*CKING B*TCH!" But thankfully, you're NOT 3 years old.

If you disagree a lot with what IGN has to say about games, then why did you have an IGN Insider subscription anyway?
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  #22  
11-13-2001, 03:24 AM
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Munch actually is the game we hoped for. To all the real lovers of Oddworld that is.

Munch is quite amazing. Do you think that the 1st two games were really amazing to the casual or average joe. No they were not. Just like this 3rd incarnation is not to the casual gamer. This game is a required taste, just as the first two were. If you liked the first two in 2D, then this game is going to be great to you. This is Oddworld in 3D. Same things we all loved about it to begin with but many times more advanced now with the new technology and in 3D.

I'm not naming names, but it is quite apparent that there are people here whom kind of hope for the game to fail or turn out kind of average due to not being able to get the XBOX, sorry to burst your bubbles, but the BOX and Munch are the real deal. If you likes games 1 and 2, you will "LOVE" this one. And don't get me started on what the XBOX holds for lucky owners next year, tons of true next,next gen games............
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  #23  
11-13-2001, 02:50 PM
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It´s a hard critic, but I think he don´t tell us nothing, I don´t know yet. In the last screen shots we can be a lot of the game´s gameplay and I saw the game would be like the 2D gameplay. I personally waited some innovation, but now I see not will be.

In some things I think like Vincent:

"...but the overall structure is more akin to a puzzle game than a platformer or adventure. "
.
.

------- I personally thinked in a more adventure focus game.


" If you snuck onto an airship to get into the Vykker floating lab, why not make that a level of a game instead of a cutscene after you finish another unconnected level in a factory? If you take out a factory by sabotaging it, why not make that a part of the game instead of a cutscene after simply reaching the other end of a level? "

" but there's just not the variety that was hinted at in the original demos of the game, and there's no exploration of other unique environments like the forest briefly shown off in the early moments of the game."


"you'll be disappointed if you're a fan of the series like I am, and expected to see all the initial objects from the first demos in the game itself, like seasons, flying ships, being able to change the environments dynamically by your actions, and so on. "
.
.
.
------ I was waiting this environmnets changes too
.
.
.

------ And the gamespeak seems a more little than in AE ( this for me are incredible )

By the end, like in the rest of the life all have light and shadows, and we don´t have to deny it.
.
.
.
I will love this game,we will love this game, sure. But in added I hope the game could be a great success. I hope can be.

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  #24  
11-13-2001, 07:17 PM
landomeMUNCH
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Actually I kind of stole it from my brother, I changed the password on it and kinda made it "my" account, but I really didn't cancel it, I just "gave it back"

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  #25  
11-13-2001, 09:41 PM
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Remember, people, that reviews are just opinions made by cynical asses who get paid for their thoughts...man I want that job.

Just because he didn't like it doesn't mean it's a lousy game.

- Mudokon Shaman

[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Mudokon_Shaman ]
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  #26  
11-13-2001, 09:45 PM
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PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
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some people are just notorious with there ratings I guess.

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  #27  
11-13-2001, 09:59 PM
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Yo, did anyone really play it? Mabye the game could just be a hair above average. I sure hope the real deal isn't as repetitive as Vince makes it sound. steel shark, it sounds like you played it, so could you tell me, Is Mr. Lopez a lying bozo?
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  #28  
11-14-2001, 12:43 AM
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9 times out of 10 the critics are wrong anyway...as they are only a few out of the oh...thousands? Millions? That will play the game and enjoy it for all its worth.
It's just like the movies...when the critics say the movie is good, it sucks...when it is bad...its great. Of course thats just how I see it....
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  #29  
11-14-2001, 01:14 AM
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It seems like a good column for the first five minutes...then it takes a dramatic turn for the worst... damn IGN... AND I USED TO LIKE THEM!!! I think that I am going to cry...


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