Q+A with somebody who's clueless (me!)

Dequibenzo · #1 03-25-2002, 02:43 AM

Okay, things have gotten a little dull lately, so let's do something different to liven it up a bit! Instead of me just rambling about stuff on my own, somebody present a currently unsolved mystery of Oddworld (something we don't know yet), and I'll do my best to present a reasonable theory on it. Then, everybody can go nuts ripping it to shreds and picking out my mistakes. It'll be fun!

Lampion · #2 03-25-2002, 05:13 AM

THe oddworld moons seem to be one of the biggest mysteries to me. We know that there are two moons so far, one for the mudokons, and one for the gabbits, and it is likely that other three moons exist for each of the three remeining heroes of the quintology. Here are my questions:

Why they existd in the first place?
Are they just a coincidence?
Were they naturally made or were they built by a sentient being? If yes, how and why they were built?

I think it is enough, for a start...

***Wil*** · #3 03-25-2002, 05:15 AM

Sounds like fun. Although I think it would be hilarious if I chose a random and comicial nonsense topic, how about 'Hello, and Doves'?

Basically, it's a discussion on Oddworld's birdlife, like the bird portals, what you think they are and so on.

It was also the longest ever topic in the Exoddus Group, started by me.

***Alcar*** · #4 03-25-2002, 06:15 AM

I just would like to ask what exactly the Exoddus Group/Club was...i've seen some stuff about and im very curious as to why it was stopped and what it was, thanks.

Alcar...

Dequibenzo · #5 03-25-2002, 09:37 PM

I had a theory about the oddworld moons a while ago. Check out "Oddworld is a Moon" in the spoiler forum. However, it didn't talk about the craters, so let's give it a shot.

:

Why the existd in the first place?
Are they just a coincidence?
Were they naturally made, or were they built by a sentient being? If yes, how and why were they built?

Hmm. First off, it can't be a coincidence- five craters on five different moons exactly resembling the hands/feet/whatevers of five saviours of the planet, each of which is introduced at the same time as it's respective sattelite. Too convenient to be a coincidence, and, besides, this is a work of fiction, and having them be there for a reason is just cooler in the storyline. So, if they do have a purpose, that means that somebody created them, and I have an idea who and why.
We know that there are spiritual forces on Oddworld- Abe himself has met ghosts, and becomes Shyrykull. Possession, levitation, rings of healing and destruction- all of these things seem to borrow from a paranormal spiritual energy source. In MO, we found out that it's called spooce, or that spooce is connected to it, or something. It's hard to tell. However, we know that there are spiritual forces at effect on Oddworld, and that OWI likes to have spiritual things, so why not a sentientce to them? Perhaps Oddworld has some sort of spiritual entity associated to it, or maybe many of them- basically, maybe there is an oddworldian god or gods, or an abstrac oddworld guardian spirit. If so, then that would explain the moons- the god, or gods, or whatever, would've placed the craters there long ago in preparation for the prophecized saviors of Oddworld, to help them out in a really non-involved way, like gods seem to like doing in most legends. Plus, there's a lot of fun for OWI in creating a pantheon of oddworld gods. Keep in mind- it's a story, and usually in a good story, the author has as much fun with it as they can.
As for how the gods or whatever did it: c'mon, they're gods. They can do what they want.
I get the feeling that, since each new Oddworld game deals with a new subject- the basic introduction to the setting in AO and AE, and queens in MO and ME (hopefully), then maybe one of the next editions will deal with religion. We know that the Glukkons created their own religion to elevate themselves above muds during or before their alchemy age, so maybe keys to things like the moons and Oddworld's spiritual side and workings can be found once we learn more about the original Mudokon faith.
So my guesses as to your questions are
1- they exist as recording of the prophecy of the saviors
2- it probably isn't a coincidence
3- they were created by the oddworld gods or spirit or whatever the heck spiritual entity resides there, using their super-neato omnipotent whatever powers.

As for the bird question, what do you mean, Max? What the birds in the bird portals are, or all birds on oddworld?

mitsur · #6 03-25-2002, 09:47 PM

Where did Abe learn to chant?!?!

***Xavier*** · #7 03-26-2002, 02:47 AM

it's strange to say but in the monsaic sanctum he learned it.
but Abe possesed already a bit in RuptureFarms

Dequibenzo · #8 03-26-2002, 04:02 AM

Maybe another one of the signs that Abe is the messiah is that he knew how to do it instinctively from birth. Have we ever seen another mud possess something? Nope, just Abe. He's one of a kind, and was probably born that way.
Of course, maybe in the future we will learn more about Abe's past. Maybe Sam taught him how to possess when he was a baby. Perhaps Sligs, with their mechanical eyes, are color blind, so the fact that Abe was blue instead of green was not apparent to them, but to Sam it was. Knowing that the blue mudokon was the prophesized savior (remember in the monsaic, there's a poem about that), she taught him the secret ancient art of possession that she had been carrying with her all this time, before he was dragged off for life as a slave.

Hey, guys, you have to give me some feedback on these, too, okay?

***Wil*** · #9 03-26-2002, 10:47 AM

:

On a completely different tone, I've discovered that the doves, are in fact swallows. Horray!

Thus began the topic, which was soon replied to with:

:

Hello Billy Squeek, the doves are swallows? How did you manage to come to that conclusion? I've never actually thought about what they are, but I did notice their forked tails. They do look like swallows and I'm sure they're based on them. I actually don't believe them to be swallows because swallows come from earth. I am corfortable with just calling them "birds". Did you see at the end of Abe's Oddysee the crowd of hundreds of Mudokons, when the birds came they excitedly chimed among themselves "the birds...the birds are coming!" --then when Abe and Bigface appeared from the birds-- "...it's Abe!! Abe!!" I loved that scene.

Sydney made that reply.

:

Well, I suppose you could call them ust birds, but what about the crow and owl sounds in Scrabania and Necrum? And bees and bats come from earth too.

That was my response, which was replied to by pmx2:

:

I don't know why we gotta talk on something so trivial as the birds man...the birds are unimportant parts of Oddworld...I don't see why they matter! Besides, do you think the developers are going to go to the trouble to say "Hey! Let's make the birds northeastern swallow-tails!" Man, this bird talk is a waste of time.

He was proved wrong, however, when a further 39 replies were made that flatly disagreed with his views.

And Alcar, the Exoddus Club was made by the fans of Oddworld that thought the GT Forums weren't good enough. However, after about 2000 fabulous posts, everybody came to the Oddworld Forums, and our little community is almost dead. We've nearly reached 3000 posts, but we're pushing our luck. The Oddworld Group (whose most famous member is Paul O'Conner who wrote the great Designer Diaries) is also dead, and even these beloved Forums are getting big and crouded. Sigh, good times.

Dequibenzo · #10 03-26-2002, 04:49 PM

Jeez. I remember a site I used to visit, some on-line roman centurion game community, that got too big and unwieldly once, they practiced a little decimation in true roman form- 10% of the population got the axe. It was kind of funny, but only because I wan't one of the casualties.
Anywho, as for the birds, I always thought that they were just another oddworld creature they hadn't fully introduced yet. THe big argument I've seen before is about what sort of spiritual powers they have to be so closely connected to portals and such. My personal theory is that the birds of oddworld are like pidgeons- they're sensative to magnetic resonance and such, so they instinctively flock towards disruptions caused by portals and teleporting individuals. As for why abe's soul turns into them when he dies is still kind of weird, though.

Shrykullmaster · #11 03-26-2002, 05:12 PM

i think that abe was taught to hant by the first mud h ever rescued and as employee of the year, he got extra spooce that he used to chant with... i think big face sent those birds to rupture farms and stuff

***Wil*** · #12 03-26-2002, 06:36 PM

I like your pigeon theory, Dequibenzo. I'll have to remember that.

As for why Abe 'turns' into birds, I can't explain the physics of it (or, for that matter, why his entire body disappears), but it's something to do with the fact that Mudokons evolved from birds. Perhaps their relationship with birds is almost symbiotic, or rather complimentory. Like, other than the hollow bones, feathers and single excresion, there are dormant spiritual birds inside every Mudokon, that only the trained and the gifted can tap into. Or somthing. I'm full of it today.

What I want to know is how the birds can go back in time as well.

I think originally that Skrikits might have been the Gabbit equivalent of birds. If that were true, we'd have a lot more discussion on this subject line.

Danny · #13 03-26-2002, 06:56 PM

re: Gods - We've already seen one Mudokon God - the Shrykull.

re: Birds - It's just a spiritual thing. The Birds are Abe's soul...

Shrykullmaster · #14 03-26-2002, 06:56 PM

maybe birds r free and thats how muds shudd be and thats y its birds

Oddsville · #15 03-26-2002, 08:32 PM

Mabye Abe dose some sort of shape shifting thing?...like he dose with Sharkull, except Abe can do it because he is related to birds and because his race is all sprituall, after all knowone questions why Abe can possess creatures minds?

***Alcar*** · #16 03-26-2002, 08:56 PM

Is there a link to the Exoddus Club?

I'd like to see it.

Alcar...

Dequibenzo · #17 03-27-2002, 03:30 AM

:

Originally posted by Max the Mug
What I want to know is how the birds can go back in time as well. I think originally that Skrikits might have been the Gabbit equivalent of birds. If that were true, we'd have a lot more discussion on this subject line.

Again, spiritual powers from beyond the something! In short- it all deals with the nature of the Oddworldian supernatural, which we have very little real info on. Maybe the birds are only an illusion created by the mind to comprehend the uncomprehendable- anybody here watch Babylon 5? It's like with the Vorlons when they aren't in their suits- everybody sees what they personally believe angels to look like, and atheists see nothing. If that's how it is with the special portal soul birdy things, too, it would explain why there are all these bird portals inside factories- only those that believe in them can see them, so Gluks and Sligs are oblivious. Mud slaves can't even see them until Abe comes and, I dunno, "reawakens" their faith in the spiritual side of things. It's kind of metaphorical and dumb, I know, but it's the best I can come up with.

And what the heck is a Skrikit!?

Lampion · #18 03-27-2002, 04:41 AM

We've already noticed that Oddworld has some physical laws that look too strange for us, earthlings.

Regarding your theory on moons, Dequibenzo, I completely agree, but you didn't answer my most intriguing doubtr: how the hands in the moons were made. In Stockyard there is a good picture of Abe's moon. In that screen we can see that the mudokon hand is formed by a set of craters, although it doesn't look like something that was created by chance. My guess is that the hands in the moons were created by some huge power who could control and redirect the trajectory of asteroids coming from the space, or a power strong enough to toss huge rocks at fantastic speeds from the surface of Oddworld, thus creating the shapes in the moons.

As for the birds going back in time ( every time Abe dies), I think this particular problem doesn't have a solution, since quicksave was created in Abe's Exoddus (How can Abe instantly backtrack to a previous position in the space-time?) and further in Munch's Oddysee. Now, if Abe or Munch dies, they dont go back in time, instead, the are hatched again from a new egg (I don't know what happens if both die).

I also think that birds are atracted by the distortions that create the portals, but I can't figure out why and how the birds are used to open them, since Abe can only open the portals if the birds are flying around it. (oh, I just read your idea of birds being illusions, well, that could explain a lot of things)

More questions: Why there are all those signs and messages directly addressed to Abe in all the Glukkon franchises? For instance, who put that message "RUN ABE, THE SLIGS HAVE ORDERS TO SHOOT YOU ON SIGHT" in Rupture Farm, zulag 1? And why does he need to prees "the arrow keys" to run"? the Ctrl key to perform actions? I think that Abe is actually a puppet, controled by a almighty powerful god... us.

***Wil*** · #19 03-27-2002, 03:23 PM

:

re: Gods - We've already seen one Mudokon God - the Shrykull.

Actually, Alf refers to them as normal, albiet powerful, creatures in Ask Alf. But looking on the other hand, that's Alf talking.

I could link you to the Exoddus Club, but to join you have to be invited, and I'm not confident enough to do so. I'll ask there are see. Then again, we have become a Group rather than a private Club (gee, thanks Yahoo). I'll investigate.

Skrikits are those little green cockroaches that are crawling all over the old Munch's Oddysee logo. I'm sure there's a green insect in the MO opening credits, but I don't know whether it's a Skrikit.

I think a native Mudokon force could have easily set those helpful messages into the LED screens and directories, or maybe a Mudokon Hacker working somehwhere high up the Glukkon Ziggurat.

I can tell you one thing about how the moons formed - we'll never know. It's nice to be assured by Lorne himself that this small piece of mystery will remain in the game for always.

There was something else, but I've forgotten it.

Danny · #20 03-27-2002, 04:46 PM

:

Originally posted by Lampion
Now, if Abe or Munch dies, they dont go back in time, instead, the are hatched again from a new egg (I don't know what happens if both die).

Do as I do - ignore MO completely for the purposes of Theorising...

***Alcar*** · #21 03-27-2002, 05:37 PM

Thankyou Max,

Alcar...

Shrykullmaster · #22 03-27-2002, 07:41 PM

Hand of Odd will be a future game... a mudokon says thank the odd... i heard Odd was a God of Oddworld, so i thnk that maybe Oddworld might be his/her/its creation and Odd controlled everything on it, it made the moon and the saviors

EDIT:200 posts... YEAH!

Danny · #23 03-27-2002, 08:30 PM

I think of Odd more as the Spirit of Oddworld than a God, as such. You know, the kind of thing that Final Fantasy's really keen on...

MudokonOddball · #24 03-27-2002, 09:32 PM

Sort of like Earth's "Guiya", Danny?

Lampion · #25 03-27-2002, 11:20 PM

Don't you mean "Gaia"? I agree, Odd is not a mudokonized god, I like to think of it like the spirit of the whole Oddworld, as Danny said.

Dequibenzo · #26 03-28-2002, 02:28 AM

Who says the Mudokon faith can't be "wrong"? Perhaps they personify the spiritual being of oddworld as a single being because they're more comfortable with it. There's a substantial amount of people here on Earth that think our planet itself has a spiritual presence, and that people created the notion of God as a being simply because they couldn't fathom the "truth".

Notice all the quotation marks? Political correctness, at it's most annoying.

I like Max's theory, that there's some kind of mudokon freedom movement that was around before Abe, and they're helping him through his steps. Here's some more guesses on the subject of the Abe-directed messenges.
1- Sam is doing it. Maybe the Gluks have a little motivational thing going on, where the view screens are sometimes hooked up to the Shrink, and she gets to talk to the slaves. Of course, being the sad-sack she is, most of the time it's stuff like "keep working, their's nothing else in life, trust your mother on this", but when she sees Abe rescuing them (because, remember, she knows he's the savior in this scenario) she starts giving him advice. This would explain why those screens are mostly gone in MO- the gluks caught on to Sam's involvement, and had them all removed.
2- This spirit/god/whatever of oddworld is doing it. Kind of like when people say they see the virgin Mary in a taco shell, Abe starts seeing messages on screens, in clouds of fireflies, and anywhere else that's a usable medium. Just more help from an omnipotent guardian entity, that's all.
3- Munch is doing it (okay, this one's just goofy). Towards the end of the quintology, munch somehow gets sent back in time (perhaps through the same method that the birds send you back, hmm...), his job to possess the screens and give Abe advice as he goes.
4- The spirits of the dead are doing it. Remember that sligs are superstitious, and lock up spirits in the temples. Where did they first learn about them, then? In the factories, where ancient mudokon spirits wander around aimlessly, sometimes screwing with the message screens just to scare them. Then, just like the weirdos, as soon as Abe comes around the spirits know it's time, so they all start helping him.
5- Abe is doing it. Those messages aren't really there, they're all in his mind, an illusion, like I speculated the birds might be. Perhaps another of his messiah abilities is hidden knowledge, which surfaces itself subconciously.
6- Ratz are doing it. The great and Mighty raisin (who never really got a formal introduction, as far as I know) has been watching you the entire time, and, with the ratz as his eyes, he sends them out to chew on the wires and transmit messages to you (okay, this one's kind of dumb too)
7- One of the yet unknown heros is doing it. Squeek, or Nod, or whoever, turns out to have been following you since the beginning, helping out behind the scenes, until he trips or something, falls down, and formally introduces himself. He's shy, I guess.

Oh, and, as for how the moons were created- I told you. Magical mystical omnicsient god powers. AKA the paranormal. Could've been asteroids, or volcanic activity, or maybe they were made that way, during some kind of biblical-esque Oddworld creation. That would make sense, seeing how important that first hand is to Mudokon religion.

And Shrykull wouldn't be a god, he'd be an avatar. The embodiment of spiritual power, not the little picture, duh.

Oh Yeah, three different topics, one with 7 different theories! BRING IT ON, MUCHACHOS!

Lampion · #27 03-28-2002, 03:55 AM

I think that theory 4#, involving the spirits of the deads, sounds more likely to me. I guess Big Face has something to do with those messages too. My theory is that Big Face knew who was Abe since he was born, and he was secretly preparing him to the big scape from Rupture Farms, and to present Abe his fate. Remember that there are several mudokons during Abe's quest that help him, even inside the factories. They are probably BigFace's friends, and part of The Mudokon Freedom movement.

Danny · #28 03-28-2002, 04:02 PM

:

Originally posted by Dequibenzo
Who says the Mudokon faith can't be "wrong"? Perhaps they personify the spiritual being of oddworld as a single being because they're more comfortable with it. There's a substantial amount of people here on Earth that think our planet itself has a spiritual presence, and that people created the notion of God as a being simply because they couldn't fathom the "truth".

This is perfectly possible, but for one fact: The Mudokons are the good guys. They are right. I wouldn't want it to be that black and white, but that's Oddworld for you... We can only hope that we begin to see more shades of grey towards the end of the Quintology...

:

I like Max's theory, that there's some kind of mudokon freedom movement that was around before Abe, and they're helping him through his steps.

There are Mudokon Terrorists out there. I remember Alf answered a question about who it was that gave Abe the Spirit Rings by saying something about Big Face's friends in the Mudokon Freedom Movement, or something like that. Alf was in one of his "sensible" moods at the time, as well, so I think we can trust him.

:

Here's some more guesses on the subject of the Abe-directed messenges.
1- Sam is doing it. Maybe the Gluks have a little motivational thing going on, where the view screens are sometimes hooked up to the Shrink, and she gets to talk to the slaves. Of course, being the sad-sack she is, most of the time it's stuff like "keep working, their's nothing else in life, trust your mother on this", but when she sees Abe rescuing them (because, remember, she knows he's the savior in this scenario) she starts giving him advice. This would explain why those screens are mostly gone in MO- the gluks caught on to Sam's involvement, and had them all removed.

Naah. Sam's unstable. The Glukks wouldn't give her that kind of power...

:

2- This spirit/god/whatever of oddworld is doing it. Kind of like when people say they see the virgin Mary in a taco shell, Abe starts seeing messages on screens, in clouds of fireflies, and anywhere else that's a usable medium. Just more help from an omnipotent guardian entity, that's all.

That would explain why the other Muds don't seem to notice it, but it just doesn't seem to ring true to me...

:

3- Munch is doing it (okay, this one's just goofy). Towards the end of the quintology, munch somehow gets sent back in time (perhaps through the same method that the birds send you back, hmm...), his job to possess the screens and give Abe advice as he goes.

No. Just... No...

:

4- The spirits of the dead are doing it. Remember that sligs are superstitious, and lock up spirits in the temples. Where did they first learn about them, then? In the factories, where ancient mudokon spirits wander around aimlessly, sometimes screwing with the message screens just to scare them. Then, just like the weirdos, as soon as Abe comes around the spirits know it's time, so they all start helping him.

Sorry, where did you find out that sligs were superstitious? It sounds familiar, but I can't place it...

:

5- Abe is doing it. Those messages aren't really there, they're all in his mind, an illusion, like I speculated the birds might be. Perhaps another of his messiah abilities is hidden knowledge, which surfaces itself subconciously.

See 2.

:

6- Ratz are doing it. The great and Mighty raisin (who never really got a formal introduction, as far as I know) has been watching you the entire time, and, with the ratz as his eyes, he sends them out to chew on the wires and transmit messages to you (okay, this one's kind of dumb too).

I like this one. It seems the most likely out of the choices you've given us...

:

7- One of the yet unknown heros is doing it. Squeek, or Nod, or whoever, turns out to have been following you since the beginning, helping out behind the scenes, until he trips or something, falls down, and formally introduces himself. He's shy, I guess.

Hmm... Have to think about that one...

But I think the most likely explanation is simply that Abe is not alone in his quest to free the Mudokon race...

Lampion · #29 03-29-2002, 01:19 AM

:

Originally posted by Danny
Sorry, where did you find out that sligs were superstitious? It sounds familiar, but I can't place it...

It sounded familiar to me too, Danny. so, I came back to Necrum to investigate, then I found the message below (see the attached file).

Dequibenzo · #30 03-29-2002, 01:46 AM

:

Originally posted by Danny
This is perfectly possible, but for one fact: The Mudokons are the good guys. They are right. I wouldn't want it to be that black and white, but that's Oddworld for you... We can only hope that we begin to see more shades of grey towards the end of the Quintology...

Since when does having a non-literal religion make you bad? I'm just saying that the mud idea of God could have some poetic liscence taken with it, just like some would say humans have done.