JAW Devs Waffle On And Are Confusing

[Nate]

http://www.oddworld.com/2013/11/new-...-roundtable-1/

Matters discussed:

• Whether NnT will have a level editor.
• Whether NnT will have a competitive co-op mode.
• Whether NnT will have the same multiplayer mode as the original AO.
• Whether NnT will have a mode in which the second player can help out without actually playing Abe.

Matters resolved to the point where I understood whether they were actually in the game or not:

• NnT will have the same multiplayer mode as the original AO. I think.

[Slog Bait]

That's really the only thing I got out of reading that, too.

[Jordan]

I can't tell if they were intentionally being confusing or they went off on some weird tangent. What's so great about level editors anyway?

[Manco]

I think the conclusion was that they wouldn't be adding a level editor because it's too complex, and also that the co-op stuff was just some early ideas that won't be in the final game.

[Xavier]

I liked the fact it was a raw discussion of people involved in the decision making. Now I agree it would be even better if we could have some clearer idea of what the final decision is.

Or perhaps that's the point... show to people they don't even know themselves and that it could even change.

[Manco]

Nah, they’re just being British.

[Havoc]

It was a really long piece of text summing up a dozen awesome implementations of a level editor only to go 'but we're not doing any of this...' halfway through the blog.

I mean... what's the point of telling us about stuff you know you're not doing?

[Manco]

What about the parts where they shoot down every idea because of various complications or limitations? They didn’t just go “oh this would be cool but nahhh”.

[AvengingGibbons]

If they do do the classic co-op mode, they must make it switch off-and-on'able in the pause menu. I remember starting games in co-op, then trying to do more of it on my own... Have to keep switching controllers -_-...

[MeechMunchie]

Nah, they’re just being British.

Since when was Lorne British?

[Oddey]

Lorne is not. JAW is a British based company as far as I'm aware.

[MeechMunchie]

j/k

[Nate]

If JAW want to do more roundtables like this, I'd suggest they record them and post as Youtube videos. Back-and-forth discussions just don't work when transcribed.

[squeak117]

While it looks like just about everything they talked about isn't going to be in the game, I think challenge levels would have been an excellent idea. Or at least, challenge modes that, rather than changing the core game that they're determined not to change, just adding an extra element of replay-ability.

Based on the speedrun leaderboards in Stranger's Wrath HD, I'm going to guess they have something like that planned for N'n'T.

[Fred The Fuzzle]

The emphasis on revealing the challenges of game design makes me think it's all just a soft justification of not adding features.

[Scrabaniac]

I don't even think Multiplayer would have to change the level designs at all, I mean, if one plays as Abe and another controls the Mudokons, All player 2 needs to do is answer 'Ok' to follow and start playing or 'No' to ignore. Player 2 wouldn't be able to jump or roll just as usual. I don't think anything would have to be changed, I think it would just add more tension as you're relying on each other to complete a puzzle!

[STM]

Just sounds like Player one gets all the fun and Player two has to follow and do what he's told...no one with an ounce of self respect is gonna want to be Player two.

[AvengingGibbons]

You could make it like Little Big Planet so either Abe (player 1) or Mudokon (player 2) is in control depending on whoever is infront. If the player lagging behind goes offscreen, then that player dies (if it's Abe who dies, you respawn. If it's the Mudokon who dies, Abe could continue on alone, possibly met by a 2player-requiring passage, in which case he'd have to kill himself and restart the puzzle).

[Paul]

Those coop idea sound like they'd make for really frustrating game play :/ I'm glad it will be dropped.

Also if they had a level editor I assume it would have to work "in game" otherwise how would you get your custom levels on a console? That would be a huge amount of effort to implement unless they severely handicapped what it can do.

[Xavier]

Yeah, makes you wonder why JAW tought it would require a change in the level designs.
*Ahem*

[Crashpunk]

I guess adding in the co-op was just to make it like original. But did anyone really enjoy the 'co-op' in Abe's Oddysee to begin with?

[Vyrien]

I used to play it with my little brother, it was no fun for him because I often went half an hour or so with no deaths but he wasn't as good and would die every few minutes.

Co-Op really needs to be enjoyable for both players if it is implemented.

[DarkHoodness]

It's like the classic "level or life" way for more than one person to enjoy any single player game, except the game has a pointless screen which tells you whose turn it is and doesn't offer any other multiplayer feature apart from that. May as well not be there at all, IMO.

E: In fact that probably doesn't really count as being "multiplayer", so to speak. When I did PS1 Abe's Exodduss with Alector and PS1 Abe's Oddysee with Middlesboogie (old OWF veterans who no-one remembers) level or life style for fun, we didn't bother with 2 player mode.

It'd be nice to see an add-on or a whole game dedicated to a co-op campaign, with specially designed levels for it, like Portal 2's multiplayer. Although there's a lot I'd rather JAW worked on first. Like AE HD. Or probably Sligstorm.

E2: What was fun was two people playing a copy of the game at the same time in the same room (had to be on the same platform, otherwise it wasn't fair) and racing head to head to see who could beat the game first.

[Xavier]

Hey I remember them!

To be fair there was more then one screen coming up saying whose turn it is. If I remember correctly it was also giving the lead to the appropriate controller.

[DarkHoodness]

Oh yeah I forgot about that. But all that does is bypass the action of physically passing the controller to each other.

E: If the original "multiplayer" was done online (turns have to end between level segments though, not just on death - One person watches remotely when it's the others' turn, implement voice and text chat features) it'd be a bit less pointless. And also you'd be able to advertise that as being multiplayer without really lying to people, too.

[Wil]

I guess adding in the co-op was just to make it like original. But did anyone really enjoy the 'co-op' in Abe's Oddysee to begin with?

From TFA:

Craig: Lorne [Lanning] told me that parents and kids tended to like this mode in the original game.

[STM]

I actually really did like the old 'pass the controller' style. I used to go quite a while without dying so I'd just give my brother my turn and then let him continue when he died. The game is as fun as you make it that way. I don't see what the fuss is about.

[El Dango AGAIN]

Actual multiplayer for Abe's Oddysee is just going to feel tacked on, and I see no need for it. Waiting turns? Might be fun, even though it wouldn't really need to be an extra mode.

I made a comment on the site asking about opinions on easter eggs and in-game rewards. That kind of stuff seems more doable.

[Slog Bait]

Waiting turns is only really fun if neither player has actually played the game before.

[DarkHoodness]

Doesn't the same apply to P2's co-op mode?