Should gay couples be allowed to adopt?

Sydney · #1 11-12-2001, 10:56 AM

I had a debate the other day with a friend about gay couples adopting children. It would be interesting to hear other people's thoughts on the issue (preferably with reasoning). I'll give my opinion once I get a few responses.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #2 11-12-2001, 11:05 AM

Well, It's strange. If two males adopt the girl, they can't explain periods, boys or whatever, or what it feels like to be a women, than a girl can say then a guy can't. And if they are two girls, a women can't really explain what it feels like to be a boy and boy duties, then guys can say then girls can. You get what I'm saying? Sorry so confusing. And You would wan't atleast a male influence, and a female influence. Than daddy to daddy and mommy to mommy.

I read an article on seventeen magazine on two lesbians adopting a boy. He was kinda confused.

Teal · #3 11-12-2001, 11:15 AM

I dunno... I don't see why a gay couple would make better/worse parents than a "normal" heterosexual family... After all, even if, as Pink said, they can't explain "girls/boy things" so well, most kids end up learning all about that sort of thing from schoolfriends anyway (albeit often decorated with shock-facts.

)

Sl'askia · #4 11-12-2001, 11:17 AM

oh boy...this is one of those topics I have trouble forming an opinion on, my neutrality kicks in big time.

Hmmm I do agree with what Pink said, it would be confusing for a child, especially an older one rather then a baby and if that child had come previously from a 'normal' family (male and female parents).
Even a baby though might become confused once he/she gets older...especially if he/she is teased about how his/her family is.
My bottom line is this...if the child can be raised without confusion and being riditculed by others by being raised in a gay/lesbo family, I have no problems with it myself. As long as the child is happy...that is what's important.

Oddipus · #5 11-12-2001, 12:16 PM

I'm gonna keep my mouth because otherwise I may be offensive to certain people. A good understander only needs a half word .....

Rex Tirano · #6 11-12-2001, 06:04 PM

I don't see why not! I know it might be strange but hey they are still Human beings. I think that well If they want to adopt one (gays adopt a girl!) That might be a bit weird but I have no problems with gays adopting!

Danny · #7 11-12-2001, 07:37 PM

My mother is a single parent, and so I have been brought up without a male parent. Am I deeply traumatised? No.

Children honestly never learn anything about the 'Facts of Life' from their parents. As Abby said, children mostly learn from older friends, or, failing that, by trial and error...

But seriously, I have never had any problems with lacking a male influence in my family, and I can see no reasonable reason why gay couples should be denied the joy and pain of raising a child. Anybody who disagrees is welcome to; it's been a while since I've had a good row...

Gluk Schmuck · #8 11-12-2001, 08:02 PM

ahh good to see a nice new topic like this...

Re: Pinky's last post:
"If two males adopt the girl, they can't explain periods" - i could explain periods quite well (and i'm a male), i may need to look up the dates for what happens in the menstrual cycle, but other than that i think i'd be ok explaining it...

"And if they are two girls, a women can't really explain what it feels like to be a boy" - i couldn't explain what it feels like to be a boy! - i could talk about my personal experiences but that's about it

"And You would wan't atleast a male influence, and a female influence" - you can get plenty of that from school, look at me, i have a single mum, and i'm fine (say what you will in response to this)

"I read an article on seventeen magazine on two lesbians adopting a boy. He was kinda confused." - what about?

Re: the topic: yes

[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: Gluk Schmuck ]

Danny · #9 11-12-2001, 08:24 PM

Well said, Tom, although I beat you to a few points...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't 60% of english families single-parent families now?

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #10 11-12-2001, 10:05 PM

It's different when your parents are not gay. Your parents are not gay so it's different.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #11 11-12-2001, 10:07 PM

i mean, you men cannot explain child birth and how it felt. Or Know how to put on a maxi pad or a tampon. So it's kinda outta order.

glukkon_daniel · #12 11-12-2001, 10:25 PM

If you need someone to explain to you how childbirth feels, then why are people allowed to adopt, period? What if someone is unable to give birth, so they adopt a little girl? They wouldn't be able to explain childbirth. It's not something that needs to be explained.

And as for tampons and stuff, they can find that out for themselves. I may be wrong, but doesn't it say how to on the package you buy them in?

I think that the only problem with gay couples adopting is the fact that the child will be teased and made fun of. A lot. Right now, I feel that gays should not adopt because in this day and age, it would just mess up the kid. However, in a couple decades, I think that homosexuality will be completely accepted and maybe even proven to be genetic, and there would be no problem adopting then.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #13 11-12-2001, 10:51 PM

Um no Daniel, there are things that my mom had to help me with. Try to put a tampon by yourself? OUCH! LOL. You ca'nt say that there's nothing to explain on a girls point of view. You never can because you are not a girl. And I can't explain anything to you since I am not a boy. I never can either. You sometimes need a male influence and a female.

If your a single mom or dad, you are around male influences or female. I live with my mom. But the males in my church, my mom's work, my uncles or grandparents are an influence on me.

But as the article, the guy was confused because he was wondering why his parents are both females, and when he was little, he was confused on what children came from! Lemme see if I could find it. It was a weird story.

glukkon_daniel · #14 11-12-2001, 11:55 PM

Kids will learn where babies come from eventually. When I was little, my parents said, "Me, mommy/daddy, and God made you." As I grew, I learned that the penis went into the vagina, and that somehow made a baby. I kept growing and learning, and in fifth grade, I had sex ed.

If you are a single dad with a little girl, how will you teach them to put on a tampon? Are you against single dads having little girls?

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #15 11-12-2001, 11:58 PM

*slaps head* This topic is not on single parenting! Silly. LOL

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #16 11-13-2001, 12:00 AM

That's what I'm trying to prove. How can a single father teach an 8 year old or older how to put on a tampon? That's so backwards!

Sl'askia · #17 11-13-2001, 12:14 AM

Just one thing...I was able to insert my first Tampon without any help...I used the instructions that came with the box. So provided the girl knows better to read the instructions first, parent intervention is not really nessacary in my opinion.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #18 11-13-2001, 12:33 AM

But when your 8 years old, barely can read?

I was 8 when I had mine. I could'nt read those big words like the hymn and virgina in the instructions. I did'nt really know what they meant. Comprehension skills is different between a 12 year old to 8 year old. Sometimes it's necessary, sometime it's not. It depends.

[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

Oddness · #19 11-13-2001, 06:40 AM

In my opinion, of course they should be allowed! As long as the child has access to friends of the same sex, they should be fine with things like that. There shouldn't be any discrimination between gay and straight couples... it shouldn't really make that much difference.

Sydney · #20 11-13-2001, 11:15 AM

I decided to create this topic because I was getting bored of the topics that went like this: "I gheet an xxxbooxxxx." Followed by: "meeee to!" And then: "munhc sa well." It's been a while since we had a good, intelligent discussion.

Getting back on topic, I'll state my opinion. I think gay couples have just as much a right to adoption as do heterosexual couples. My friend disagreed, saying that individuals physically capable of "normal" reproduction should not need to adopt. The conversation soon degenerated into calling homosexuals dirty, unnatural perverts who should be kept away from children at all costs, for fear of instilling their lifestyle on fragile, incorrupt minds. Needless to say, the debate soon ceased. I was left wondering where he got such ignorant attitudes.

A report on Larry King last year on twelve seperate studies performed over twenty years showed that people raised by gay couples were actually better socially-adjusted, do better at school including staying in school longer and achieving a higher level of education, have lower rates of substance abuse etc, than the average child raised by heterosexuals.

Having said that, I agree with Dragadon that an older kid shouldn't be adopted by homosexuals. I just can't see that working.

Either way, I'd rather be raised by gay parents who would teach me tolerance rather than a fag-hating heterosexual couple.

Pink: I think you'll have to present a stronger argument than the tampon one. P.S. The edit button allows you to edit your posts. It looks like this:

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #21 11-13-2001, 07:31 PM

Syd, if you look up a bit instead of the last post I replied, maybe you can see the other arguments I made.

Danny · #22 11-13-2001, 08:35 PM

:

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
If your a single mom or dad, you are around male influences or female. I live with my mom. But the males in my church, my mom's work, my uncles or grandparents are an influence on me.

Hmm... So do you believe that Homosexuals do not have Uncles, Aunts, Grandparents, or other friends and relatives of the opposite sex? If that is not your belief, then you have no argument. If that is your belief, then can I say how offensive I find your Stereotypes?

And please, do not reply with an irrelevance, or by repeating what you have already said. Reply to my post, please, don't just ignore everything I have said...

Oh, and Daniel, I am not attempting to argue with you, but I doubt that Homosexuality will be proven to be Genetic, and if it did, this would NOT lead to it being more acccepted by the Homophobes, but would almost certainly make matters worse, since Gays would then be ostracised as being somehow different to heterosexuals, even more than they are now.

[anyway, if homosexuality was genetic, how would it be passed down?]

[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Rettick ]

Mudokon_Shaman · #23 11-13-2001, 08:49 PM

Sure, homosexuals should be allowed to adopt. 'Sointently! Most heterosexuals shouldn't have children - most are negligent assholes.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #24 11-13-2001, 09:33 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rettick:
[B]Hmm... So do you believe that Homosexuals do not have Uncles, Aunts, Grandparents, or other friends and relatives of the opposite sex? If that is not your belief, then you have no argument. If that is your belief, then can I say how offensive I find your Stereotypes?

And please, do not reply with an irrelevance, or by repeating what you have already said. Reply to my post, please, don't just ignore everything I have said...

Oh, and Daniel, I am not attempting to argue with you, but I doubt that Homosexuality will be proven to be Genetic, and if it did, this would NOT lead to it being more acccepted by the Homophobes, but would almost certainly make matters worse, since Gays would then be ostracised as being somehow different to heterosexuals, even more than they are now.

[anyway, if homosexuality was genetic, how would it be passed down?]

what the heck are you talking about? You are sounding like sydney. I am not sterotyping anywone. Do you have a good argument? I guess not.

People are going to believe what they want to believe an there's nothing you can do about it. Even if people agree with the fact that homosexuals can adopt.

I agree with the concept that some heterosexuals should not adopt.

[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

glukkon_daniel · #25 11-13-2001, 10:27 PM

:

Oh, and Daniel, I am not attempting to argue with you, but I doubt that Homosexuality will beproven to be Genetic, and if it did, this would NOT lead to it being more acccepted by the Homophobes, but would almost certainly make matters worse, since Gays would then be ostracised as being somehow different to heterosexuals, even more than they are now.

I think that if it were proven to be genetic, then homophobes would accept them more because there is nothing that they can do about it. And I think that homosexuality may be genetic because most homosexuals have lisps. I am not saying that it is, but there is a chance.

:

what the heck are you talking about? You are sounding like sydney. I am not sterotyping anywone. Do you have a good argument? I guess not.

People are going to believe what they want to believe an there's nothing you can do about it. Even if people agree with the fact that homosexuals can adopt.

lol. The old, "What are you talking about?" argument from Pinky.

I'm sorry, Pinky, but you're beginning to get ridiculous here. I use the term "beginning" loosely. Does Rettick have a good argument? Yes! Do you? No! Is sounding like Sydney a bad thing? It is if you don't like knowing exactly what the hell you're talking about. Has Sydney once ever insulted you? Has he ever lost his temper with you? The answers are no. However, you constantly get angry with him! Why? You seem incapable of discussing something without going crazy! I used to think that homosexuals should not adopt, but after reading what Sydney said, I have changed my mind. Conclusive evidence has shown that children raised by homosexuals do better socially and academically. Your tampon argument was weak, but it WAS an argument. Now you're just sinking down into insults.

Of course people are going to believe what they want to believe, but there IS something you can do about it. You can enlighten them on the subject, show them evidence, give them examples, and, most importantly, be calm about it, and DON'T INSULT. Sydney and Rettick have both done these things, but you won't budge! You won't agree with them, but you won't tell why not.

I am asking you Pinky, please back off from this topic, as I would REALLY like to have a civilized discussion FOR ONCE!

Just imagine, Rettick... No more "what are you talking about?", no more seeing the same argument over and over after having already proven it wrong... Just civilized, open-minded people having a civilized, open-minded discussion... Frustration-free....

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #26 11-13-2001, 10:34 PM

:

Originally posted by Daniel Brown:
lol. The old, "What are you talking about?" argument from Pinky.

I'm sorry, Pinky, but you're beginning to get ridiculous here. I use the term "beginning" loosely. Does Rettick have a good argument? Yes! Do you? No! Is sounding like Sydney a bad thing? It is if you don't like knowing exactly what the hell you're talking about. Has Sydney once ever insulted you? Has he ever lost his temper with you? The answers are no. However, you constantly get angry with him! Why? You seem incapable of discussing something without going crazy! I used to think that homosexuals should not adopt, but after reading what Sydney said, I have changed my mind. Conclusive evidence has shown that children raised by homosexuals do better socially and academically. Your tampon argument was weak, but it WAS an argument. Now you're just sinking down into insults.

Of course people are going to believe what they want to believe, but there IS something you can do about it. You can enlighten them on the subject, show them evidence, give them examples, and, most importantly, be calm about it, and DON'T INSULT. Sydney and Rettick have both done these things, but you won't budge! You won't agree with them, but you won't tell why not.

I am asking you Pinky, please back off from this topic, as I would REALLY like to have a civilized discussion FOR ONCE!

Just imagine, Rettick... No more "what are you talking about?", no more seeing the same argument over and over after having already proven it wrong... Just civilized, open-minded people having a civilized, open-minded discussion... Frustration-free....

Here we go, LOL, the old blah blah babbling of daniel's hour, sticking his nose in people's business. I'm not going to read that whole paragraph because it's just blah blah and repeating it's self and no point. If you want a civilized conversation, then don't reply or just stay out of it.

And what was this thing about homosexual in genetics? Look who's acting ridiculous. Homosexuality cannot be inherited. It's a choice.

So anyways, back to the discussion! Bwahahahahahahahha!!

Joe the Intern · #27 11-13-2001, 11:11 PM

actually, homosexuality isnt always a choice. sometimes it occurs from chemical imbalances in the brian. not all homosexuals choose to be gay. its just who they are.

Biscuit · #28 11-13-2001, 11:54 PM

yeah, homosexuals dont choose their sex. neither do heterosexuals. suprisingly logical huh?
i really see nothing wrong with homosexuals adopting, as long as (like previously said)the child in question is not too old. i mean, think about it...how else would they have kids?

Sydney · #29 11-14-2001, 05:16 AM

Pink, since when did homosexuals choose to be attracted to those of their own sex? Nobody has control over whether they find males or females sexually attractive.

The current medical perspective on homosexuality is that it's caused by the fetus being exposed to an imbalanced level of hormones while the brain is in early stages of development. Many things could disrupt the normal levels of hormones in the womb, such as smoking, diet or just a general defect in the mother's hormone production.

But back on topic, another reason Pink proposed gay couples shouldn't adopt is because the child wont be taught properly how to behave like a man or a woman. Tell me, what exactly are the duties of a man? Or a woman? I thought such stereotypes belong in the 50's. The subserviant wife has dinner on the table when the man comes home from work. Or perhaps all women should drape themselves from head to toe with veils, and men must grow a beard? What is the correct way to behave like a man or a woman?

Lampion · #30 11-14-2001, 05:57 AM

The real question behind the title topic is: Who should be able to adopt a child? Many gays, along with many straight couple shouldn't adopt a child, BUT many others have the necessary familiar structure to raise a child without a doubt, gays and straights.

I know a gay couple that has lived together for about 30 years, and have a very well structured life. they don't have children, but they could, if they decided so.

My oppinion: gays couple should be allowed to adopt, yes, prviding that they can take care of a child, give him/her a good home and education, as any Heterosexual couple.

There are many, many children out there that are orphans. To allow gay couples to adopt, would increase those kids' chances to get a better life, by living in a home, having an education.

Homophobes main complaining is the possibility that the "poor, inocent" little child can be "perverted" and also become a gay person. Then I say: so, what's the problem? What's so bad being a gay, at all?

Actually, gay men and women often are raised in heterosexual families (at least all the gays that I know came from heterosexual families).