Abe HD Ideas

[Xavier]

Hi, everyone! This is just a quick post to check in and introduce myself. I'm Matt, the new designer working on New 'N' Tasty.

I've been looking through this thread to try and get a feel for what you all consider to be the most important aspects of the original game. I'm a big fan myself and there's a lot of overlap with the things I personally value in AO, to be honest.

I noticed atmosphere was one particularly important point of discussion. While it is a frustratingly vague thing to pin down and describe, it would certainly be something that sticks out to fans like a sore thumb when it's not right.

The deep atmosphere and storysense of the original AO was what made me fall in love with it in the first place, so I'll do my best to help convey that rich feeling in New 'N' Tasty, along with all the other nuances and complexities of the game.

Hope you're all as excited about this game as I am!

Hello and Welcome,

As Wil probably told you we have some asshole hanging around here, try not to pay too much attention.

It's great to have you guys speaking to us directly and address our concerns, especially the touchy subject of the atmosphere.

So, should we expect dark or goofy?

[Varrok]

I still hope it'll be the former.

[Jordan]

I'd like about 80/90% dark with the rest goofy!

[Nepsotic]

I'd prefer 90% dark. 80% would make it AE and -12% would make it like MO.

[AvengingGibbons]

What was goofy about Abe's Oddysee? It all seemed dark and depressed to me. I can think of one example of goofiness, which is the Bigface FMV where Abe falls down the cliff and you get them boingy sound effects. But what else?

The environment was pure dark. The goofiness came from the characters.

[Nepsotic]

Yeah, you're right. Farting is totally not goofy.

[MeechMunchie]

It should be pretty fucking dark.

[Xavier]

What was goofy about Abe's Oddysee?

- Abe swooshing away from the meeting room door when he lears about new and tasty.
- Abe farting
- Abe banging his head while in a barrel escaping RF
- Abe farting.
- Abe banging his head while falling before meeting the BigFace.
- Abe farting.
- Native Mudokons slaping the bees trying to make them go away.
- Abe farting.

[CrowbarSka]

Much like the original game, it's about finding a balance between the two.

You can't tell a story about an enslaved race of people being turned into meat popsicles without it being pretty dark, tonally speaking. But, conversely, it simply wouldn't be Oddworld if it wasn't offset against some goofiness here and there.

(For the record, the original AO certainly had its moments of pure cartoony slapstick. Abe doinking his head on the pipe as he leaves Rupture Farms is a particularly memorable example to me.)

[Varrok]

You can't tell a story about an enslaved race of people being turned into meat popsicles without it being pretty dark, tonally speaking.

Oh yes, you can. I can imagine it. Please don't do it.

Much like the original game, it's about finding a balance between the two.

That's absolutely true, but I'm sure it's not 50:50 balance. It's definitely more dark than goofy.

[DarkHoodness]

@Varrok - Are you sure you don't remember AO being darker than it actually was because of nostalgia?

Old fans of the game think AO was very dark - But perhaps some of that impression came from us not yet really knowing a lot about the world it was set in, something which is now impossible to re-capture if you're already a fan with knowledge of the games. AE is goofier than AO, but still remains quite dark - This is perhaps how goofy AO was actually meant to be. If the balance is out, people may get confused over the tone the game is trying to portray... Food for thought. And yeah, it wouldn't be Oddworld if it wasn't a bit goofy.

(E: That being said, I prefer a darker tone over goofiness, and I've always thought it's a strange combo, but my opinion doesn't really matter.)

@CrowbarSka - Welcome to OWF, and as others have said it's really good of you to take a personal approach. If you're feeling brave, you can also look at the last few pages of the Oddworld at E3 thread for more ideas/what people think of what's been shown of N'n'T.

People are a bit overly critical and nitpicky though, considering that what's been shown of the game is in various stages of being a WIP, so try not to take things at face value too much - But IMO if we're fretting over tiny details and not big things (I don't think all fans will ever be 100% satisfied either, and the loudest ones don't speak for all of us) then perhaps it's a sign that the game is already on the way to doing what you want to achieve.

[Varrok]

@Varrok - Are you sure you don't remember AO being darker than it actually was because of nostalgia?

Nah, I played it not-so-long ago to make sure. It was mostly dark with a bit of goofy but it was okay.

[CrowbarSka]

Oh yes, you can. I can imagine it. Please don't do it.

Haha, well yeah when I say "you can't" I mean "you really shouldn't".

That's absolutely true, but I'm sure it's not 50:50 balance. It's definitely more dark than goofy.

Of course, and by balance I don't mean 50:50. I wouldn't like to try to give specific percentages because it's simply not something you can pin down like that.

@CrowbarSka - Welcome to OWF, and as others have said it's really good of you to take a personal approach. If you're feeling brave, you can also look at the last few pages of the Oddworld at E3 thread for more ideas/what people think of what's been shown of N'n'T.

Thanks! I have been looking through the threads and finding plenty of useful feedback, among some concerns that are often a result of the footage shown being work-in-progress. We're not blind to these issues of course.

Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast. Making games isn't like a production line in a factory where things are finished methodically, one after the other. It's much more organic than that, and many elements of the game are dependent on other unfinished elements. You can end up with nothing working at all even though plenty of work has been done. It's just missing that final 5%. Sometimes things don't really come together until the last minute.

[V_O_T]

Hi, everyone! This is just a quick post to check in and introduce myself. I'm Matt, the new designer working on New 'N' Tasty.

I've been looking through this thread to try and get a feel for what you all consider to be the most important aspects of the original game. I'm a big fan myself and there's a lot of overlap with the things I personally value in AO, to be honest.

I noticed atmosphere was one particularly important point of discussion. While it is a frustratingly vague thing to pin down and describe, it would certainly be something that sticks out to fans like a sore thumb when it's not right.

The deep atmosphere and storysense of the original AO was what made me fall in love with it in the first place, so I'll do my best to help convey that rich feeling in New 'N' Tasty, along with all the other nuances and complexities of the game.

Hope you're all as excited about this game as I am!

Howdy, and welcome good to see more of you here. I'm sure Will has had his fill of us lol.

But seriously, thank you both for still taking time out of your work to read up on our thoughts and opinions. Regardless of how whacky our suggestions sound sometimes, at least we aren't being ignored

[Nate]

This thread is meant to be about NnT suggestions. As such, I moved all the questions for CrowbarSka to their own thread.

[MeechMunchie]

I thought I'd drop in to say that according to Wil there's pretty much no chance of the fluffy-blue-fairy-fog-plughole bird portals changing so we'll have to complain about something else.

I'm also going to put on record a suggestion I made that the height distinction between hoisting and runjumping should be explicitly stated at some point. I fear another 10-year-old fan may get stuck at the end of the Stockyards for a month.

[Sidewinder Fang]

height distinction between hoisting and runjumping

I never knew there was a difference. What screen in the Stockyards was this apparent in?

[MeechMunchie]

I kept running to the end, stopping and hoisting. I was convinced I just wasn't doing it fast enough.

[Varrok]

I think I did that with run jumping, Meech. Honest. You technically should be able to do it with hoisting, if there wasn't any Scrab around.

[Havoc]

Surely you can simply do a run jump there?

[Wil]

The point MM is making is that when he first played that, he didn't know he could run-jump onto higher ledges. It's never necessary or taught in the preceding gameplay.

[Nepsotic]

I'm pretty sure I learnt that in Rupture Farms. I know that what I didn't learn on my first playthrough was that you can run directly into a roll. Made Scrabanian Nests well hard.

[Slog Bait]

You're taught how to run + roll in ML in that one screen you can easily just walk through without paying any attention to anything written. It took me years to get used to the run-and-then-jump-into-a-well-before-you-get-jacked-up maneuver, though.

Also, I never had any issues with running and jumping either when playing the game as a kid. I think I learned it through watching the "demos" that play when you leave the game sitting at the start screen for awhile.

[Oddey]

I remember I had a great deal of difficulty with that section as well MM. I don't quite remember how I got past it, but I believe it was just a case of "I've tried everything that way, I'll try something that might work". But it did take a long time before I or someone else thought to do that. It would be nice if it was included somewhere else in RF.

[Phylum]

AE has several sections that require run-rolling, but I'm pretty sure it never teaches you how to do it.

It wasn't until I played through AO that I could finish AE.

[Oddey]

AE has several sections that require run-rolling, but I'm pretty sure it never teaches you how to do it.

It wasn't until I played through AO that I could finish AE.

It does mention it in the manual of AE.

[Phylum]

I borrowed the game from someone, and they'd lost the manual

[Xavier]

That's a nice way to put it.

Anyway, with digital distribution and stuff I'm sure the guys over at JAW understand no one reads manuals anymore and that everything needs to be introduced in some kind of tutorial.

[MeechMunchie]

I think I did that with run jumping, Meech. Honest. You technically should be able to do it with hoisting, if there wasn't any Scrab around.

No, you really can't. Run-jumping actually raises you higher than hoisting, but there are only a few ledges in the game too high to be hoisted. You can run to that wall, perform a full hoist animation, and have both feet on the ground before the Scrab gets you.

Like Oddey, I only figured it out by pushing random buttons. I'm not so bothered about run-rolling, because there are in-game instructions for that, everyone just forgets about them.

[Varrok]

I find it incredibly hard to believe. Can anyone else confirm that runjumping raises you higher?