Should gay couples be allowed to adopt?

[Danny]

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
*sigh* You see what I mean? Did I say that you said that you don't know me in real life? NO! I was just adding further detail to what I am trying to say for once without flames and trying to end this stupid argument

Well, if I didn't say anything about you in real life, why did you bring it up?

Originally posted by ODDBODD:
all i can read above is a load of useless garbage that doesn't even deserve to be recycled. It was just an example fruit bat, if you bothered to read the rest of what i said maybe you might stop and think! wait, oops i said think didn't i

Oddbodd, I DID read the rest of your post, and I responded to the rest of your post in my post, as YOU would know if YOU'd been reading the rest of MY post...

[Danny]

Incidentally, Oryon emailed me this and asked me to post it. I have read through it, and it seems fairly clean. Just don't flame me for this, I am just the messenger...

Emailed to me by Oryon:
Pinky, have you actually met a Gay person? And if you have did you automatically push them aside because of one minor thing of being gay? Would your so called "God" do that just because someone is of a different sexuality? Would he push them away and send them to hell before even giving them chance to speak? If he would it just proves that "God" is very prejudice. And i do believe it is a sin to be prejudice is it not? So...if we were to go deeper into this...your "God" is sinning...should he go to hell? Oh and i'm Catholic Pinky and i shrug off religion if it means not being friends with the only decent people i know.

And Stadikk...hush...you have no idea what you are going on about. You cannot "Train" somebody out of being gay. They are not a animal were you can train them to sit, beg, roll over. If people were like that, psychopaths would be re-formed and walking among us. People are people and if we want to judge on what they do behind closed doors then fine. But dont start saying stuff like "They're creepy" because they arn't. Gays are the most opened minded people i have ever met, if your with your straight friends and see a gay man walking down the street (Lets just say, for sake of argument, that the gay is with his partner) then it is 98% guaranteed that your friends or you will make a comment or shout something out at them. Gays are not like that, they take people as they come and are generally happy people. If you want to call a group of people creepy, call Paedophiles it, they are generally sinful and creepy.

[ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: Rettick ]

[Molluck]

I have no prob at all with gay people!
They are just as kind and freindly as any strait person!
I could be best mates with a gay guy and be as kind to them as I would be to any other of my mates!

There is no diffrence between a gay man or a straight man exept they prefer a diffrent sex!

[Gluk Schmuck]

go Oryon!


ahhhh - i go away for 2 days and there's another page - i can't read all that (not now anyway, hehe)

[Rex Tirano]

I haveno problam with Gays! Rettick is one of the coolest, calmest people I know on the forums! And hes Perfectly normal! So I say Oddbodd read carefully like I said: Here Here (A nice way of saying please read carefully!)

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

This goes to Oryon:

Yes, I have met people who are gay. Four our of my 9 brothers are gay and I still love them. I have friends who are gay. I don't push them aside either. I have no problem with then, if a girl tries to like have a crush on me then eew, that would be different because I'm not a lesbian. It's there choice to be gay so that's them. It's there life. They have to deal with God at the end. Everyone does. It's not for me to judge them nor condemn them to hell. How can I when I fallen short from God myself?

I can see if they say to me "What does God think about it," then I would tell them but in a gentle way. I won't just go up to there face and stuff are you insane oryon? Besides, God can't be predjudice because he does not hate gay people just because they are gay. He just hates the act because it's going against what he's planned. So don't scold at me. I'm just telling you what thus said the Lord. I did not write the bible. I don't know all the answers. I'm still a child in christ. I did not read all the bible. I read the sins and what God destest. So don't be asking me all these crazing questions because I am not there yet. I've been baptized like 2 years now. If you want the answers, then why don't you read the bible? What makes you so afraid to read it? (I'm talking hypothetical right now )

BTW, your catholic? No offense but, Catholics are suppose to love God, praise and have his back. If you think God's predujice and stuff, why did you become a catholic? That does'nt make any sense. Why do you keep saying "Your God?" He's your God too yo! Catholics should know that there is only one God, and Christians believe in the same God and JEsus Christ is the son of God. Our service is different, but we believe in the same chunks.

[Danny]

For the last time, Catholics ARE Christians! Instead of using the word 'Christian' in the context in which you are using it, please use Protestant [I am assuming you are a Protestant. If you are not, I apologise, please insert your Denomination where I typed 'Protestant'...]

Anyway, so basically you have no idea why God supposedly hates Homosexuality so much, then?

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Originally posted by Rettick:
For the last time, Catholics ARE Christians! Instead of using the word 'Christian' in the context in which you are using it, please use Protestant [I am assuming you are a Protestant. If you are not, I apologise, please insert your Denomination where I typed 'Protestant'...]

Anyway, so basically you have no idea why God supposedly hates Homosexuality so much, then?

Catholics and Christians are not the same! They believe in the same thing but things are run differently. We don't have nuns, we don't have confession boxes, and we don't get baptize at 5 months.

I don't know why he hates the act. That's why I'm reading the bible to find out why.

[Sydney]

Catholicism is just a sect of Christianity, just like Baptists are. Of course you'll find differences between each sect, but in the end they all accept Christ as saviour, thus the term "Christian."

Where's the article, Pink?

[glukkon_daniel]

Give me the artice or give me death!


Oh, sorry.

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Oh Yeah! The article! Lemme get it.

[Statikk HDM]

Whew pinky an article about a dude being confused in a gay family. Well, Duh. I got a little bored with all the he said she said bullshit(thanks for that phrase Mr. durst.)that was going' on. The rusty ax, "why does god allow...fill in the blank with some tragic sob story was being used a lot here so let me clarify with 2 words and some filler Free Will! Just think about what would you rather be god's mindless zombie, not doing anything by choice at all or to show god thanks, just schleppin' around this third rock from the sun till ya die and you can all go to heaven Universiality doesn't work you schmucks! Their is evil and it's not just god being a cosmic bellboy, guarding you from all that happens! To quote Bill murrary, "Shit Happens!"

[ODDBODD]

Originally posted by Rettick:
Oddbodd, I DID read the rest of your post, and I responded to the rest of your post in my post, as YOU would know if YOU'd been reading the rest of MY post...

blah blah blah, no only crab juice or mountain dew!

God doesn't like homosapians but doesn't mean he is going to throw you in hell. As long as you are a good person.

Da end

close the topic and burn it!!! BUUUUUUUUURN IT!!! BURRRRRRRRRN IT!

[Gluk Schmuck]

Originally posted by ODDBODD:
God doesn't like homosapians

Hehe, so why did it create us then?

[Danny]

Originally posted by Statikk HDM:
The rusty ax, "why does god allow...fill in the blank with some tragic sob story" was being used a lot here

When? quote me one time that query has been used in this topic!

[Sydney]

Regarding "Gays can change," I found this text written by a supposed ex-homosexual who people attempted to straighten. It's from www.fallwell.com , a site I stumbled upon after mistyping the address of the Falwell Ministries website.

I was in an ex-gay ministry, and here is my story.

I knew growing up that I was gay (or at least suspected). I imagined intimacy with males from age 6 on and was surprised when I found out about straight sex at age 12. It did not seem natural to me.

My only experiences with gayness was occasional negative glimpses on the TV. Either the character was evil, a murderer, or dying of AIDS.

Worse, I grew up a Mormon and was taught that homosexuality was equivalent to murder and was the third greatest sin. I figured that prayer and obedience would fix my feelings. I had committed no sin, and hopefully it would go away.

When I was 19, I decided to go on a mission. I still had not told anyone about my feelings, so the Church sent me to France on a missionary assignment.

I had to live with male companions for twenty-four hours a day. The Mormon Church is so obsessed with sex that they even tell missionaries to stand outside the bathroom door to make sure their ministry companion is not committing self-abuse, or masturbation.

I had extremely close relationships with my companions except, of course, for intimate acts.

But my feelings that I was a homosexual increased. I worked, fasted, prayed, and read scriptures, but this did not improve things.

I started feeling my faith slip away. If my homosexuality was a test from God, it was awfully cruel and daunting.

No other missionary I knew was having such a difficult problem to overcome a "test" from God.

When I was 21, I had stomach problems and left my mission a month early. I went to a doctor back in the states who said my illness was caused by stress.

I went to a psychiatrist and told him that I felt I was gay, and he told me to confront the Church.

Next, I went to the Bishop and told him. He was shocked and sent me to a Mormon psychiatrist who was associated with Evergreen, the Mormon Church's equivalent to Exodus International.

He said that my problem with homosexuality was due to a lack of self control.

The psychiatrist told me not to masturbate. He claimed that it would only make me more homosexual.

He commanded me to pray fervently (as though I hadn't done this!), hang around straight men, play sports, and sing hymns in my head.

This did not help, so he suggested hypnosis, but the thoughts continued.

We then started aversion therapy. He told me to imagine pictures of maggots and sores invading my skin anytime I thought of men sexually.

The psychiatrist was getting frustrated at me at this point because I wasn't changing from gay to straight. He said that I was not doing enough.

Back at Church, somehow the word got out that I was gay.

I was not longer allowed to be around children, prepare sacraments, or even pray in the church.

People became scared of me. Longtime friends refused to associate with me any longer.

The psychiatrist at this point told me to try electroshock therapy. He said in severe cases like mine it was the only way. I refused.

Then, the Church excommunicated me.

Even though they knew I had done nothing sexual, they put me on trial and questioned me.

They asked me questions about sexual acts that I had never even heard of. I was shocked.

Seven years ago, I finally accepted the fact that I am a gay man and that there is nothing wrong with me. I am so glad I have because my life is so much better than ever before.

Sadly, a friend who was enrolled in the same ex-gay ministry committed suicide after 2 years of electroshock.

He had burns on his arms where they would shock him for showing sexual response to pictures.

They even had him get married and have children in an effort to become heterosexual.

Instead, he was visiting parks and alleys for sex.

He injected himself with drugs and left behind two beautiful young daughters.

I could have been him.

Now, I have a friend who is enrolled in an ex-gay program called Evergreen. He was in Love in Action, but that didn't work. None of it does.

I see him on the same road as me and my dead friend. Hopefully, he will realize that people like Jerry Falwell are just plain wrong.

Most sadly, one of the things I lost was a faith in God.

I could not understand the hatred and discrimination brought upon gay people by individuals who are supposed to be Christian and loving.

[Gluk Schmuck]

[Insert any word other than holy] shit!
That story made me sick!

Is it legal to give EST for no good reason?

That's pure evil making someone have a family - not least for the children.

[glukkon_daniel]

That's sad...

[Statikk HDM]

Dude, that's a sad thing but i couldn't imagine a psychiatrist legally doing those things, in fact it's outright malpractice. i went to a psychiatrist, I learned a lot there, but never was anything phisically done to me. That is horrible, but i remain faithful to psyschiatrists who know what they are doing and don't do that shit. How current is that? The situation sounds barbaric and cruel, straight from the Dark Ages. I still think that homosexual people can be helped.

[glukkon_daniel]

What is there to "help"? You make it sound like a disease.

Anyway, like Gluck Schmuck (sp) said, repressing emotions is just plain sick.

[Gluk Schmuck]

Time for (X-ian) Bible class!!!

I assume this,
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
is the main reason lots of right-wing Christians belive (the act of) homosexuality is wrong.

But, to put this in context,
"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)
"If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people." (Leviticus 20:18)
"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

Now we can see that Lev 20:13 is surrounded by things which are 'not meant to be taken literally for our modern day'. Which leads most intelligent people to belive that ALL the above are 'not meant to be taken literally for our modern day'.


(Source: http://www.fallwell.com/verses.html)

[Danny]

Tom has raised a crucial point about how literally we should take the bible. To complete what he started, here are the "Ten Punishments", complete with their location in the bible:

1. Ex. 22:20: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.


2. Lev. 24:16: And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death.


3. Ex. 31:15: Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.


4. Ex. 21:15: He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.


5. Ex. 21:17: He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.


6. Ex. 22:19: Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.


7. Lev. 20:13: If a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.


8. Lev. 20:10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.


9. Mark 16:16: He that believeth not, shall be damned.


10. Mal. 2:1-4: And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name, ... behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces.

[General Grakkus]

I for one, dont think they should. why? because no-matter what you think you are influenced by your parents BIG TIME, you may not even notice it.But if a kid has a mom that smokes pot that kid is twice as likely to try it himself/herself.

BTW I would love to be adopted right now by two lebian chicks! that would be so KICK ASS

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

It's not wrong to take the bible literally. I'ts not a sin, Especially if you are new at it because you don't know and you have to grow into it. But, sometimes stuff like that are taken literally. In the old days, if you curse your parents you would be put to death. So Rettick and Gluk when you say that the bible cannot be taken literally. SOmetimes it is. I would be careful. The bible has some culture aspects, especailly in the old testament. You have to read and understand them carefully. It's hard, but you will get use to it. Like if the bible saids "Thou shall not steal" That should be taken literally Or in Proverbs, "Love sleep, and you shall become poor" or "He that troubleth his house shall inherit the wind."

[Eibu]

I keep seeing this topic pop up on the main page and never really looked at it before...

...finally I've been compelled but I'm too lazy to look through the other pages (i've only read the last couple post).

My answer is simply (and without ANY religious influence, since I'm not at all a religious person) is yes.

[glukkon_daniel]

Pinky, are you wearing clothes made of two different materials? Have you worn clothes of two different materials? Do you wear clothes that are not of the same materials regularly? If so, then you would be sinning, according to how you feel about the bible. Again, you have totally misunderstood the meaning of a post, and again, someone must explain it to you.

What Rettick meant was that there are a lot of things in Leviticus (sp) that are totally wacked out. According to the bible, if you wear clothes of two different materials, then you are just as bad as a homosexual. (Please interpret this correctly so I don't have to explain again...)

[Steve]

give me the good old days when gods where just plain messed up and there was nothing wrong with that.

[Gluk Schmuck]

Originally posted by General Grakkus:
you are influenced by your parents BIG TIME

Do you have a problem with homosexuality?


To Pinky (and the rest of the *ahem* biggots):
1. Do you like me?
2. If yes, would you still like me if i had sex with a guy?

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Originally posted by Daniel Brown:
Pinky, are you wearing clothes made of two different materials? Have you worn clothes of two different materials? Do you wear clothes that are not of the same materials regularly? If so, then you would be sinning, according to how you feel about the bible. Again, you have totally misunderstood the meaning of a post, and again, someone must explain it to you.

What Rettick meant was that there are a lot of things in Leviticus (sp) that are totally wacked out. According to the bible, if you wear clothes of two different materials, then you are just as bad as a homosexual. (Please interpret this correctly so I don't have to explain again...)

OH My Gosh Daniel. You are really a stupid prick.
Where is the bible did you see that? Then that means that you sin also. You misunderstood what I said totally. Did I just said that the bible has culture aspects? Like, If you were not a virgin, and you married a man, and he found out, you will be put to death. If you give me a scripture, then I will believe you but if your making that up then I won't. I thought you said that you don't take the bible literally.

I am saying something different. It seems to me that I have to explain to you what I'm talking about and you misunderstood what I meant. Idiot. Of course Leviticus is going to sound wack out if you don't understand it. You don't know when to shut up do ya? You always go on and on and on and try to get the last word. Huh, what a hard life your going to live. Get a life.

Gluk, I am not a biggot! So don't be a prick like Daniel and judge me and assume I don't like gay people. I have nothing against homosexuals whatsoever. Did you read my post on how I have 5 gay brothers and I love them just as much? I have gay people too and they are really nice. It's not against my faith to hate homosexuals. I don't hate you. If you like a guy, I don't care that's you possy. That's your life. Live how you want to.

*Phew* I'm PMSING! I'm sorry if I sounded rude, but I had to get it out.

[Sydney]

Calm it with the insults guys, we all know that calling each other biggots, pricks and morons wont help the debate.

Pink, the verses in the bible that show it is a sin to wear garments of two different fabrics have already been posted. Quite a few times actually. Also, those who work on the sabbath are as sinful as dirty homosexuals. Shall we deny them the right to adoption, too? The same applies to those who eat shellfish, etc. The bible's stance on this argument has been thrashed, so it's time we move on. If we want to continue talking about the bible, why not start a new thread?

For now, let's get back to the topic. Should gay couples be allowed to adopt children? I've yet to hear a good argument that says no.