Ferguson, MO

[STM]

Well yes...as is every revolution that doesn't have the backing of the armed forces.

[Paul]

@MM- UKIP is the 3rd biggest party in the UK now though to be fair. But then they are partially a vote of anger against the traditional big three.

I think you are confusing UKIP with the EDL.

UKIP wants UK out of the EU so silly laws don't get enforced that cost us billions, or having to pay CO2 fines that cost billions, which in turn means needing to build nuclear power stations which costs even more money. Common sense IMO.

[Slog Bait]

Are we actually entertaining a discussion about the feasibility of an American civil war? If you think an underclass is going to spark a revolution you need to read some history. Revolution is instigated by the middle class and no American Joe Bloggs is going to give up his suburban utopia to campaign for national freedom.

You're implying the middle class is living comfortably right now

There are a number of reasons I'm personally expecting some form of civil war within the next 100 years or so, though whether or not I believe it'll be sparked by racism is a different story.

[STM]

I think you are confusing UKIP with the EDL.

UKIP wants UK out of the EU so silly laws don't get enforced that cost us billions, or having to pay CO2 fines that cost billions, which in turn means needing to build nuclear power stations which costs even more money. Common sense IMO.

As far as I'm concerned UKIP is the EDL gone political.

You're implying the middle class is living comfortably right now

There are a number of reasons I'm personally expecting some form of civil war within the next 100 years or so, though whether or not I believe it'll be sparked by racism is a different story.

Care to explain what those reasons are then? More over how you expect even an attempt at 'civil war'?

[OANST]

They're probably very personal.

[Holy Sock]

Civil war generally only occurs in countries with pretty dire conditions. Despite what you think, SB, the citizens of the US are living very comfortably relative to countries which have had civil wars over the last 100 years.

So unless American society seriously degrades over the next 100 years I don't see any sort of civil war breaking out.

[Slog Bait]

You know

I honestly can't be bothered

We'll just wait and see.

E- Sock speedied before I could post and I still can't be bothered

[OANST]

We get it. It's personal, guys.

[Slog Bait]

No, I just know that no matter what I say, you'll just roll your eyes and dismiss me because when it gets down to it I'm just a scared child who wants out

[OANST]

See? Personal.

[Slog Bait]

And there you go

[OANST]

And here I am

[Slog Bait]

Hello!

[OANST]

Follow M..... No. No Oddworld jokes.

[Havoc]

Care to explain what those reasons are then? More over how you expect even an attempt at 'civil war'?

Constant and repetitive police brutality, the ever growing gap between rich and poor, the ever growing gap between the police/army/government and the people, the fact that the government is spying on just about everyone, the fact that the government has given itself the ability to arrest and jail people without cause or trial for an indefinite amount of time, the fact that the government's favorite past time is funding terrorists and then starting a war with them and the simple fact that the US government is corrupt to the fucking bone.

Pick one. I'd give you a list of links to sources and references to those reasons, but I'm sure you know how to use Google.

As for an attempt, there are areas in the US where civilians are sitting on enough firepower to occupy Switzerland. Including armored vehicles and high explosives. No, they wouldn't be able to outgun the combined firepower of the US military, but they wouldn't have to. Because if shit seriously starts to hit the fan enough to spark a civil war, chances are that the military is going to be split in half just the same. The President may be the commander in chief, but the people on the field are still commanded by hundreds of generals who, during such magnitude of chaos, may just start working for the other team. Not to mention international pressure on the government if the country were to become that unstable.

Hence the term war, there has to be an actual two sided war to call it such. Not some Texans yelling yeehah with their rifles while getting roflstomped by a tank. Otherwise I'd refer to it as a civil slaughter.

[OANST]

Well, that was a whole lot of bullshit. Nice work, sir. Your ability to blow things out of proportion, and believe every negative thing you read about the U.S. is still unparalleled on this forum.

[Havoc]

Thanks man, it takes a lot of training to keep my skills up.

Your ability to claim an entire post as bullshit without any reasons as to why is also still very sharp. Good job, kind sir.

[STM]

I'll just reiterate my point about civil war being a middle class construct and how no one in the middle class wants a mass conflict.

[Havoc]

No-one wants a conflict. There's no-one currently sitting in their basement planning the trigger for a civil war in 2038 except maybe a fiction writer.

Civil wars (or any war for that matter) have a tremendous build up before the main conflict starts. All kinds of smaller conflicts build up over time. Look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_States#2010s

Even if you leave out all the relatively minor occurrences of riots on universities and after sports matches, there's still a good 12 accounts of riots as a direct result of police brutality or government summits. That's almost 1 a year. That's a ridiculous number for what is supposed to be a first world country.

[STM]

A riot does not a civil war make.

Yes it's true that there have been conflicts in recent years but only a number proportional to the size and population of America. Let's stay that your '12 accounts' is accurate (I didn't check), that's 12 accounts of localised conflict in one year for a population of over 500,000,000 people.

Historical uprising comes from the systematic stamping on of the working class, this is true. However the working class are not (from what we have seen) educated or intellectual enough to unify and promote a common interest. That is where the middle class come in; Lenin, MÃ*cheál Collins, Jefferson Davis and William Sherman. On an even lower scale, these leaders require the financial and political backing of a middle class elite. All these leaders comes forth at a time of national distress or when popular discontent has fermented across the world.

In 2014 and likely in 2044 there will be no popular backing for any mass civil war, there are no trends to suggest there is any more popular discontent than ever there has been in America since before the civil rights movement (a nadir in race relations that was far more aggravating than the current events in Ferguson, MO). The point I was trying to make was that your average Joe Bloggs of Middle-America, with his family of four, his sedan, his Ikea furniture and his new washing machine is not interested in taking up his .22 pistol and charging heroically towards the local government office to demand immediate rectification of society's problems. We, a collective of the Western World, are far too comfortable with the status quo to bring any sort of violent upheaval to the capitalist oligarchy.

[Slog Bait]

As far as I was aware, the working class in America is the middle class?

Most of the people I know in the middle class and their whole familys' are all just waiting for something to happen to cause some kind of revolution or civil war. They all see it coming, we just don't know when it's going to happen, where it's going to be started, and what of the many possible things will spark it. My mom expects it to happen when she's a crotchety old lady. A lot of my friends' parents just hope that when it happens, they're long gone.

[Holy Sock]

MÃ*cheál Collins

That gave me a little chuckle. Yet the effort must be commended.

[STM]

I didn't realise a second civil war was such a widely debated topic amongst the American people. :P

Maybe the class system is different in the US but working class is regularly attributed to (I grit my teeth here) the 'lower' class. The middle class are the people who are university educated or have a trade, live reasonably comfortably with average or good job security, etc. Those are the ones who make or break the beginning of revolution.

e: At Holy Sock - My Da is Irish so some of his family write his name Michail/ MÃ*cheál. I knew Michael Collins wrote his name the Gaelic way but I couldn't remember how you do Collins in Irish.

[Slog Bait]

Yeah, I discussed class differences once with Vyrien and she explained how classes worked over there and I thought it was kind of strange since working class seems to cover everything but upper class over here. Classes over here are pretty much based entirely on income, and IIRC, the middle class actually gets the highest taxes of all the classes, which can leave a lot of families essentially lower class after everything's been paid, hardly getting by without qualifying for any kind of benefits because of their monthly income.

And honestly I think it depends on your location. In the west, it seems like revolution and what not is discussed way more frequently than in the center and east. I recall discussion really picking up around when our illegal immigration problem was at a high. The value of our properties were plummeting and people were finding it hard to get work because employers were exploiting the illegal immigrant workers because they were cheaper, and nothing was being done about it. No effort to push for the immigrants to get legal citizenship or any temporary solution.

Also California and everyone in it is a little crazy and trigger happy anyways sooooo

[Bullet Magnet]

An American civil war against the government would be an absolute mess, because the "resistance" would be made of people with wildly different values and sensibilities. Oh, and the ones with the crappiest values are the ones with the most firepower.

[Slog Bait]

Why do you think I'm a scared child that just wants out?

[Nate]

There are a number of reasons I'm personally expecting some form of civil war within the next 100 years or so, though whether or not I believe it'll be sparked by racism is a different story.

Other people have made very good points that I agree with on this page, so I'm going to just split hairs over a minor niggle.

You can't make predictions about our culture 100 years in advance. The Western World (and, to an extent, the entire world) changes so quickly these days. No-one could have predicted 9/11 ten years in advance. Nor the GFC or the rise of the Tea Party movement. Think about how our society has changed since the Internet became widespread; no-one could have anticipated that in the 80s.

Things might get worse or something unexpected might make everything better. But predicting what's going to happen in the next century is simply impossible.

[Holy Sock]

e: At Holy Sock - My Da is Irish so some of his family write his name Michail/ MÃ*cheál. I knew Michael Collins wrote his name the Gaelic way but I couldn't remember how you do Collins in Irish.

It's just funny because translating your name into Irish, particularly at the time and now in Northern Ireland at least, is seen as a statement of Irish nationalism and a sort of shunning the Anglo identity that was considered imposed upon them by the British. So leaving Collins untouched creates some mixed signals.

[STM]

Ah I wasn't trying to make a statement or anything, I am pro-unification or at least pro-referendum though. My family came from Galway, Clare and I think, Munster and played a part in the resistance movement pre-WWII. I try to stay atop of Irish affairs but I didn't know about the Anglo-identity bit. I didn't know you were Irish either HS!

[Slog Bait]

Other people have made very good points that I agree with on this page, so I'm going to just split hairs over a minor niggle.

You can't make predictions about our culture 100 years in advance. The Western World (and, to an extent, the entire world) changes so quickly these days. No-one could have predicted 9/11 ten years in advance. Nor the GFC or the rise of the Tea Party movement. Think about how our society has changed since the Internet became widespread; no-one could have anticipated that in the 80s.

Things might get worse or something unexpected might make everything better. But predicting what's going to happen in the next century is simply impossible.

Yeah, I know how fast things can change. I would have used a smaller time frame like Havoc did, but I figured things could be fluctuating like hell and back and wanted some kind of cushion in case someone called me out on not being able to predict something in the short term either. In the end, I know it's just a prediction. I know how much things can change in a short period of time, I'm just so used to hearing people speak about the state my country is in and hearing about how people want change.

Things like Ferguson happen and get progressively louder and more chaotic each time it happens. You will never get the full truth of the situation no matter where you stand in the matter, even if you experienced the whole thing first hand. You constantly hear people in your communities, schools, family talking about civil war or revolution, and with each incident the reactions become more and more violent. If history's anything to go by, unless something is done about this it's going to keep escalating.

I don't know what to expect, I just know that while things aren't as bad as they could be, they're not exactly good right now, and for a country that flaunts it's freedom of opportunity and acceptance of all people it's pretty disgusting that it's not following through and claiming it does.