Hell -

Sl'askia · #31 12-31-2001, 04:23 PM

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Originally posted by Pinky: You can believe in whatever I'm jsut telling you the truth.

I mean, it's not too late or anything. If your dead, it's too late because God's going to judge us what we did on this Earth.

you're doing it again Pinky. By 'claiming' your religion is truth you are forcing your religion upon us. Those two things I quote are prime examples. You probably just don't see it that way.
If you are going to say 'I am telling you the truth' put it in the context 'I am telling you the truth as it is to me and my religion' or something like that.

As for your question....

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Originally posted by Pinky: What would you do if you find out there is a God? Are you going to try to argue him down? When if there is a hell? People getting tourtured for eternity? Are you going to argue him then also if you never believed in him?

I don't think anything will happen. If there is a god, he would judge me for what I have done in my life...not by what religion I follow. As long as you are a good person and do no serious wrong (ie: murder) you would be fine.

Steve · #32 12-31-2001, 04:26 PM

pinky how did you get anywhere that they wanted to be forced to be christians they've been saying the exact opposite for quite a while now.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #33 12-31-2001, 04:30 PM

I did'nt say that I was forcing her or anything. I don't think you can comprehend what I'm saying or. Don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of doing it. You can't accuse me. Dragondon what's your deal? You just don't get it.

Sl'askia · #34 12-31-2001, 04:41 PM

No Pinky...you are the one that doesn't get it. You say you are open minded and tolerent of others beliefs...yet you keep trying to shove down our throats how we 'will go to hell for not believing in your god'. What about all those people who followed the pagan relgions before Christianity even came into existence? Are they in hell now? I seriously doubt it.
Religion is nothing but a means to inform people of whats right and wrong...it doesn't matter what religion you follow (save for a few...like Diabloism), as long as you are a good person you will reach whatever 'heaven' your religion teaches or you believe in. (whether it is reincarnation, eternal paradise etc.) What of those that don't follow a set religion, like me? I think reincarnation will apply there.

Danny · #35 12-31-2001, 04:57 PM

1.

:

If your baptized, it's like saying

"I submit my life to Christ, I don't want to be the old person anymore. I believed that you died in order to save my life. I want to be obedient"

People are baptised as babies. There is no "old person" for them to renounce. They haven't a clue what's happening to them.

2.

:

What would you do if you find out there is a God? Are you going to try to argue him down? When if there is a hell? People getting tourtured for eternity? Are you going to argue him then also if you never believed in him?

I think that meeting God is undeniable proof that he exists, so I will therefore begin to believe in him. I might try and argue him down, but only if he says something I disagree with. Up to now, however, I have been offered no proof of his existance [not even by you, even though you claim to have proof], therefore I do not believe in him.

3. When I die, I will find out whether or not there is a Heaven or Hell. When I die, it will no longer be a case of Faith, it will be a matter of Observation. If it turns out that there is a Heaven, then of course I would want to go in there, and I think that God should make the decision on whether or not to allow me into Heaven based on what kind of person I am, not based on whether or not I believed in him or not. If he really wanted us to believe in him, he would have given us some proof. What is the purpose behind all this secrecy? Does he mean to test our faith? If so, what difference does it make whether or not a person is able to believe in something they have no proof of simply because they are told that it exists? Surely people who believe in other religions would also pass that test!

4. Up until a few minutes ago, I was under the impression that Heaven was for Good People and Hell was for Bad People. Now, however, Pinky has explained to us that Heaven is, in fact, for people who "want Christ in their lives", and Hell for those who don't. This puts things in quite a different perspective. Let me give you an example:

Hitler was a devout Christian. He had definately said that he "wanted Christ in his life". Therefore, by your definition, he went to Heaven.

Gandhi was not Christian. Therefore, by your definition, he went to Hell.

You will, of course, deny that you said this, and claim that Hitler went to Hell. But to do so, you would have to admit that Heaven and Hell is not about being Christian, it is about what sort of life you have lead. If this is true, then you will have to let Viruous Non-Christians into Heaven, and then your argument comes tumbling down...

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #36 12-31-2001, 05:01 PM

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Originally posted by Dragadon:
No Pinky...you are the one that doesn't get it. You say you are open minded and tolerent of others beliefs...yet you keep trying to shove down our throats how we 'will go to hell for not believing in your god'. What about all those people who followed the pagan relgions before Christianity even came into existence? Are they in hell now? I seriously doubt it.
Religion is nothing but a means to inform people of whats right and wrong...it doesn't matter what religion you follow (save for a few...like Diabloism), as long as you are a good person you will reach whatever 'heaven' your religion teaches or you believe in. (whether it is reincarnation, eternal paradise etc.) What of those that don't follow a set religion, like me? I think reincarnation will apply there.

No, your the one who does'nt get it! I find it sad too. I have family members who are either atheist or christian or buddist and I have no problem for it. I was just telling you what I read in the bible and what God has said. I'm not judging and you and saying that you were going to hell. WHy do you get so mad all the time when people say something like that? You say your open-minded to other people's beliefs? Here's you arguing me about some evolution when I don't even wanted to believe in it in the first place. It does'nt make you the better person because you where trying to convert me to evolution.
I mean my goodness, God is a loving God but he is a jealous God and judgement. So you argue to God about Heaven and Hell. There's no way to try to talk to you anyways. So do whatever, I don't care. You have a choice in life. My choice is to follow God no matter what you say.

Sl'askia · #37 12-31-2001, 05:10 PM

I am not trying to 'force' you to believe in what I believe. Stop saying that I am. You believe in god? Fine..I am happy for you, even if I do see it as silly as you think evolution is.
Its fine to express your beliefs, but there is a fine line between 'expressing' and 'trying to convert'. I don't believe I am trying to 'convert' you...I am just trying to get you to see that you seem to be trying to convert me.

Steve · #38 12-31-2001, 05:17 PM

I'll take the good old gods any day in egyptian they weighed your goodness and badness therefor you did not have to believe in egyptian to go to the underworld. in greek you just sort of went on living. in norse it was whether or not you died fighting (a pretty easy one for the vikings). sorry but I don't know about celtic or anything like that. also pinky your saying I'm not forcing you to believe in my god but if you don't you'll go to hell.

Danny · #39 12-31-2001, 05:19 PM

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Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
No, your the one who does'nt get it! I find it sad too. I have family members who are either atheist or christian or buddist and I have no problem for it.(1) I was just telling you what I read in the bible and what God has said.(2) I'm not judging and you and saying that you were going to hell.(3) WHy do you get so mad all the time when people say something like that?(4) You say your open-minded to other people's beliefs?(5) Here's you arguing me about some evolution when I don't even wanted to believe in it in the first place.(6) It does'nt make you the better person because you where trying to convert me to evolution.(7)
I mean my goodness, God is a loving God but he is a jealous God and judgement. So you argue to God about Heaven and Hell.(8) There's no way to try to talk to you anyways.(9) So do whatever, I don't care. You have a choice in life. My choice is to follow God no matter what you say.(10)

1. And yet still you believe they're going to Hell? That sounds quite like having a problem with it to me...

2. But you have chosen to believe it. Stop trying to get rid of responsibility for what you say.

3. Yes you were. You made it quite clear that only the Baptised can gain entry to Heaven. Therefore, you made it clear that the Unbaptised [including myself] will be forever barred entry.

4. Would you get mad if somebody told you that you were going to Hell for not blindly believeing everything you were told as a child? Well, I suppose the situation wouldn't arise for you, would it...

5. Yes.

6. Nobody mentioned Evolution. This is a debate about Hell, and YOU are the first person to bring up Evolution. Don't try and change the subject.

7. No, but it might possibly make YOU a better person, since it would stop all this Fundamentalist bullshit.

8. I can't argue with someone who does not exist. If you can introduce me to God, then maybe I will argue with him. Not before.

9. That's rich coming from you.

10. No it isn't. Your choice is to follow what has been attributed to God. There is absolutely no evidence that God had anything to do with the Bible. He probably doesn't even own the copyright...

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #40 12-31-2001, 05:43 PM

:

Originally posted by Rettick:
1. And yet still you believe they're going to Hell? That sounds quite like having a problem with it to me...

2. But you have chosen to believe it. Stop trying to get rid of responsibility for what you say.

3. Yes you were. You made it quite clear that only the Baptised can gain entry to Heaven. Therefore, you made it clear that the Unbaptised [including myself] will be forever barred entry.

4. Would you get mad if somebody told you that you were going to Hell for not blindly believeing everything you were told as a child? Well, I suppose the situation wouldn't arise for you, would it...

5. Yes.

6. Nobody mentioned Evolution. This is a debate about Hell, and YOU are the first person to bring up Evolution. Don't try and change the subject.

7. No, but it might possibly make YOU a better person, since it would stop all this Fundamentalist bullshit.

8. I can't argue with someone who does not exist. If you can introduce me to God, then maybe I will argue with him. Not before.

9. That's rich coming from you.

10. No it isn't. Your choice is to follow what has been attributed to God. There is absolutely no evidence that God had anything to do with the Bible. He probably doesn't even own the copyright...

1. Whatever

2.Yes, I chose to believe in it. Got a problem with that? Not like I have'nt said that before. Who said I was not taking resposibility for what I am saying? I don't want to be atheist.

3. It said that in the bible and it stated clear that was just. SO don't argue with me about it.

4. Huh, like that would happen. Believing in the bible is not blindly. You would'nt know anyways.

5. yeah

6. I was talking about the other topics playboy. Read next time.

7. No, but you think you are right all the time whic makes me think that you think that you are the better person adn you know what is right.

8. I'm not going to argue over some crap, that God does not exist. How can you prove that he does'nt? I guess you can't.

9. Your suppose to be the smart one?

10. Um, yes it is. You don't know what you are talking about. There's evidence that God wrote the bible. Proves how much you know about Christianity. Or your just saying that because you have nothing else to say.

Steve · #41 12-31-2001, 06:01 PM

God wrote the bible? I thought it was his prophets *coughminionscough*.

Sl'askia · #42 12-31-2001, 06:08 PM

Pinky...I am only going to say this: There is no one 'true' religion for all of us to follow. Nor is there a 'right' one to follow. They are basically all the same thing...whether you like it or not. And I will state again: God (in whatever form he assumes according to what religion we follow) would judge us by what we have done in our lives...not by what religion we follow.
One more thing.
I don't know what the percentage is of people who are Catholic and Christian...but I can guess it is not a big number compared to the total world population (what is it? 5-6 billion?). That said...that would be a very large number of people condemned to hell by your definition.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #43 12-31-2001, 06:14 PM

:

Originally posted by Steve:
God wrote the bible? I thought it was his prophets *coughminionscough*.

Yeah, God told his prophets what to write. There is no way, that Moses can write what happened on the day of his birth or write in every detail.

glukkon_daniel · #44 12-31-2001, 06:16 PM

I'm sure Hitler was baptised.

glukkon_daniel · #45 12-31-2001, 06:24 PM

:

Originally posted by Dragadon:
Pinky...I am only going to say this: There is no one 'true' religion for all of us to follow. Nor is there a 'right' one to follow. They are basically all the same thing...whether you like it or not. And I will state again: God (in whatever form he assumes according to what religion we follow) would judge us by what we have done in our lives...not by what religion we follow.

Hmm... Dragadon, wasn't it you who was just telling Pinky not to force her religion and beliefs on others? Yes, it was. So don't be a hypocrite.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Daniel Brown ]

Sl'askia · #46 12-31-2001, 06:31 PM

I am not forcing it on anyone. i am just reinstating my beliefs Daniel...nothing wrong with that.
To state your beliefs your beliefs is one thing, but saying something along the lines of: "If you don't follow my religion you will go to hell" is quite another...

Steve · #47 12-31-2001, 07:06 PM

heres a question do you believe that joan of arc was a prophet or a crazy lady who just heard voices.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #48 12-31-2001, 07:09 PM

:

Originally posted by Dragadon:
I am not forcing it on anyone. i am just reinstating my beliefs Daniel...nothing wrong with that.
To state your beliefs your beliefs is one thing, but saying something along the lines of: "If you don't follow my religion you will go to hell" is quite another...

I did'nt state that or did I meant that. People were asking me questions and I answered them.

Joan of Arc, oh yeah we had to learn about her.... I don't know if she would be a prophet or not. She heard Saints talking to her. Did God really sent them? Or where they demons? Answers lie somewhere......

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

Sl'askia · #49 12-31-2001, 07:22 PM

I was talking to Daniel Pink, I didn't say you thought I was forcing my beliefs on you.

abe22 · #50 01-01-2002, 05:11 AM

People who Say "If you don't believe in God you will go to hell" Are making their religon a cult.

Gluk Schmuck · #51 01-01-2002, 10:34 AM

Steve, what's the difference?

:

Cult
A system of religious belief and worship.

Don't all (at least most) religions involve belief and worship?
By that definition, almost all (probably all), religions are cults.

Danny · #52 01-01-2002, 08:53 PM

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Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
There is no way, that Moses can write what happened on the day of his birth or write in every detail.

Three words: "Making It Up".

abe22 · #53 01-01-2002, 10:03 PM

All religons think that other religons are cults but it's the people in the religon who are making it a cult by saying things like "if you don't believe in god you are going to hell" that is making it a cult but if they respect the other people not in their religon and don't say things like that then it MIGHT not be a cult. Did that make any sense?

Danny · #54 01-01-2002, 10:15 PM

What's wrong with the word "Cult" anyway?

abe22 · #55 01-01-2002, 10:28 PM

Well persons in other religons think that other religons are cults because they don't believe what they believe I think.

Eibu · #56 01-01-2002, 11:32 PM

If I believed in Hell I'd want it to be designed by Akira Toriyama-sensei...

Gluk Schmuck · #57 01-02-2002, 02:16 PM

That was a very good point, Eibu. Now who the hell is Akira Toriyama-sensei?

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #58 01-02-2002, 06:02 PM

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Originally posted by Rettick:
Three words: "Making It Up".

Man puhlease, if you think that, then I pity you.

Gluk Schmuck · #59 01-02-2002, 06:43 PM

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Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
Yeah, God told his prophets what to write. There is no way, that Moses can write what happened on the day of his birth or write in every detail.

Regarding the own birth part: Maybe another human told him. If you never thought of that then I pity you!

Regarding the every detail part: Maybe the story of creation was a documentation of what current-time 'evidence' 'proved'.

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Gluk Schmuck ]

Danny · #60 01-02-2002, 08:25 PM

:

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
Man puhlease, if you think that, then I pity you.

Then pity me. As long as you don't mind me returning the favour...