Slogs Grow Stupid?

RebStark · #1 04-11-2002, 12:07 AM

Slog AI just isn't built the way it used to be. One of the things that originally drew me to Oddworld was the interaction of many species with each other. Possessing a Slig and ordering my rabid friend to sink his teeth into a wayward Mudokon worker was always rewarding. But in Munch's Oddyssey, Slogs are nothing more that mindless animals who not only pay no attention to their Slig "masters", but will actually attack and eat them if given the oppurtunity. I feel the uniqueness of the creature was destroyed in the interests of slimming down the GameSpeak system, which I am dissapointed about as well.

Sydney · #2 04-11-2002, 12:59 AM

I agree with you. I remember old interviews in which it was said Oddworld's GameSpeak would be expanded upon in Munch's Oddysee.

Speaking of Slogs, one of my fondest Oddworld memories were of the sequence where you are being chased by slogs and must jump over the mines. The slogs get blown up.

***Xavier*** · #3 04-11-2002, 05:09 AM

more to hope in ME
yeah the gamespeak is realy poor in MO compared to AE and AO

Jacob · #4 04-11-2002, 10:41 AM

Slogs been less on A.I is a shame. I base games on A.I quite abit now. I like games were you can injure a enemy and they call for help and people actually help them. Thats why online games are good. You can injure someone, and leave them there. When people come to try and help you pick them off one at a time.

salty pretzils · #5 04-11-2002, 04:54 PM

game speak, for me was a really important aspect of the game and it's a shame to have it slimmed down. i also liked slogs alot in AE & AO 'cos they could be ordered around by sligs which made me laugh

***Xavier*** · #6 04-11-2002, 05:04 PM

in MO you can speak, but it don't influance the other characters... except sligs who hit you whe you insult them when you posses an other Slig

MojoMan220 · #7 04-11-2002, 06:38 PM

I'm confident ME will be better; MO was rushed just a bit on XBOX.

RebStark · #8 04-11-2002, 07:47 PM

You're right, ME will probably improve on the Gamespeak. Hopefully anyway. I do enjoy how it was made more adaptive, changing depending on Greeting Mudokons/Munch/Abe/Fuzzles. But the original point was that each creature was unique and dynamic organism. What really dissapointed me was the loss of Paramite speech. They had a really sospisticated systwm of behavior. Now they just bark mindlessly.

***Xavier*** · #9 04-12-2002, 04:21 AM

and now paramites can attack each others...
regression guys, regression

Lampion · #10 04-12-2002, 04:27 AM

when I first played Abe's Games, I was amazed by the Gamespeak feature inside that game, because it gave the characters a lot of personality. Munch's Odysee was a huge step into the 3D world and top notch quality graphics (they are even saying that MO was just 20% of was is to come!!).

Great.

Now, the OWI folks need to focus more in the A.I. of the games, to bring back the level of Gamespeak interactiveness we had in AO and AE games. As far as I heard about, MO improved the personalities of the characters giving them random phrases to talk while they are hovering in the places togheter. that really adds to the atmosphere of the game, but what we want to see from now one is the possibility to interact with the diferent characters of the game by our own. I expect the Gamespeak to be simple to handle, yet complex in it behavior. I'd like to see the status feature implemented during gameplay, which will directely affect the gamespeak.

scenario 1: A low status slig comes to a glukkon. He will greet the Glukkon with something like "uh... 'morning, boss?", which will be followed by a "Shut up! you Idiot!".
scenario 2: the same low status slig greets another low status slig with something like "Yo, dude!" followed by a "yeah...whatever...".

So, I'd like to see more Gamespeak interactiveness, plus status behavior and maybe mood behavior, like in AE.

***Xavier*** · #11 04-12-2002, 04:35 AM

yup in MO when you tap on button he don't say the same each time... it's nice.
other question how can we add gamespeak there are only 6 différent things to say

Lampion · #12 04-12-2002, 04:46 AM

What do you mean, Xav? Please, elaborate more on that.

***Xavier*** · #13 04-12-2002, 04:53 AM

well with the controller you can

Y: tap: Greet Individual
Y: hold: Greet Crowd

X: tap: Wait
X: hold: "sound"

B: tap: Work
B: hold: Attack

You can't add things to say, but you can devlop the interactions with those GameSpeak. And change the GameSpeak of the Glukkons and devlop an other, more intelligent for more interaction

oddguy 999 · #14 04-12-2002, 04:56 AM

Gamespeak has always been bad but now it is even less deverse...

Here's a Gamespeak idea for MO...

OWI could have a "HELLO" / "ALL OF YA" buton that works the same as always, and a Second buton that you hold down when ever you want to say a order plus a buton for that order. You would say the order that you want them to do as if you where doing it yourself (a little bit like possesion but there is a delay, max range, need for exeptence by target creature, etc.) , eg. "WORK"= Second buton + Action buton, "FOLLOW ME"= Second buton + direction towards yourself, "GO AWAY"= Second buton + direction away from yourself, "GET DOWN"= Second buton + Croch buton.

Also because the directions are anolog you could dicribe different orders by pressing at different strenghths but in the same direction.

Maybe a "GOODBYE" buton should be added also?

***Xavier*** · #15 04-12-2002, 05:05 AM

would not be easy to play
I think the disposition as now is good
but there must be a hold for the A button, yup

Lampion · #16 04-12-2002, 05:14 AM

Yeah, I got it, Xav.

and that's exactly what I was thinking. The buttons could remain the same, but the behavior of the characters when you use them could vary, depending on the status of whom is talking to, and (possibly) the mood of that particular character. Plus, it can be affected by the surrounding environment.

The work button, for instance, could be used in very different situations, with diferent orders. The main character should , instead of just say "work", say "turn the whell!" or pull the levers!", depending on who and what is around him.

The action button, even now, has already a lot of AI behavior on it. It is used to operate vendos, pick objects, and various other things, depending on where the main character is. The gamespeak behavior can be expanded like that.

the greetings button could be expanded by increasing the level of interaction with characters. Once you greet a folk, you could use the same button to say some shallow sentence, just to add fun to the talk, like: tap Y, "Hello!", tap it again, "how's going?", and again, "nice hat...", and so on.

Of couse, each group of characters should have their own set of sentences that reflects their particular peesonalities.

An intersting adiition to game would be to develop particular languages to each race, so that we could only understand what they re talking about if we possess one of that race. It could be used in diferent kinds of puzzles. The slig locks, for instance, an't be operated by a mudokon, because it only works with sligs language.

***Xavier*** · #17 04-12-2002, 05:19 AM

Lampion
I love all your ideas
that would be a realy GameSpeak !

oddguy 999 · #18 04-12-2002, 05:23 AM

Lampion,
I think varrity in the way you say different things sounds good and is likely going to be expanded apon in ME...

Xavier,
I think it would be easy to play... The Second buton that I refured to would not have to be one of Y, X, B butons. Rather it could be one of the triger butons or even either trigers because they could still have their primmery functions since they're anolog- pressing hard is their primmery function, pressing lightly is gamespeak.

Jacob · #19 04-12-2002, 07:12 PM

I think OI should ask us what we would like to see implemented in the games. Not the storyline, but certain ways it is set out. And stuff they would like to spot, happen.

(By Happen i mean, if you slapped a Slig, what it would do etc.)

***Xavier*** · #20 04-12-2002, 07:14 PM

Jacob, nice idea, but they must be able to do anything we ask which is not easy...

Slap a slig? yell and slap

RebStark · #21 04-12-2002, 07:53 PM

The experience won't feel really complete until they develop very good voice recogognition for the characters. And I mean beyond the dismal responses of Seaman, which was a grand experiment but was just a bunch of code hidden under the guise of A.I. I want to possess a slig, and be found out by other sligs because my diction and dialect just aren't quite right. They sense the uncertainty in my voice. A lot to ask I know, but I think developers have the ambition.

Jacob · #22 04-12-2002, 10:41 PM

:

found out by other sligs because my diction and dialect just aren't quite right. They sense the uncertainty in my voice. A lot to ask I know, but I think developers have the ambition.

Then you wouldn't complete the game...cos you'd be shot all the time.

:

they must be able to do anything we ask which is not easy...

I mean within reason. And only take the best idea's. Such as, if you kill a Slig, you can drag the body around (I know...its like MGS2...but still!!) You can have a conversation with a Slig (You could do that in AO & AE sorta.) And tell Mud's to be distractions or sumat. Slogs actually went on scent. You could herd Scrabs and Paramites into enemy camps and watch the massacre. Creatures are so "Intelligent" they use their surroundings. Another good one is like in JP3 were the Raptors talk to each other, lets have wildlife do that. Lets see creatures hunting!! There is so much i look for in the game...which is really dissapointing when i buy one. The one of the good games i bought was 'Evolva' which actually had creatures attacking you if you attacked their offspring and you were in control of your abilities. I want to see a food chain, a life cycle on Oddworld. They promised this for MO but it never came about. They should design a whole economy system for Oddworld and have food chains, creatures reacting to their enviroment, if a Slig see' a Scrab wandering into base camp it should yell for help and attack. Stuff like that. The A.I capabilities are extreme on the X-Box so i think Oddworld should put some decent stuff in ME, it would at least revive Oddworld from the MO catastrophe that has disapointed at least 25% of its fans.

Jacob · #23 04-13-2002, 05:55 PM

Its amazing how i can literally halt a Topic from growing in size by just saying a couple of things...

Shrykullmaster · #24 04-19-2002, 10:21 PM

i think that we need to hav beter gamespek... if u just imagined wat u cud do with a vykeer that actually commands other vykeers lik "Stand over there" and hav him standin a tank and then have the tank fill up with acid

or u cudd boss around interns to bring fuzzle cages and then rewlease the fuzzle and hav them go crazy all over every1.. thatd be sweet

SeaRex · #25 04-20-2002, 03:47 PM

Hey, anyone else think that the "mad slog disease" mentioned in the game was supposed to cover up the slogs bad case of the stupid?