Abe HD

[Kinto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmFJHfsvPG0 Do backgrounds like this game did. Beautiful and immersive, which is actually how AO and AE backgrounds were. For their time at least...

[Havoc]

well making the screens in 3d and leaving them in real time is better then pre rendered.You can still make the screens in some way,but if they make pre rendered whats the point of making the game then if its going to be the same way it was created years ago....

To be honest I fear that doing it in realtime will mean that the quality will take a step backward instead of forward. It's going to be very hard to top the original backgrounds and I've rarely, if never, seen realtime graphics that looked as good as the AO backgrounds.

[Scraby]

Hmm good point you've got there,but we will see how it works around,as i know lua is mod friendly so someone might get hd textures to make em look even better.

[Wil]

To be honest I fear that doing it in realtime will mean that the quality will take a step backward instead of forward.

The old backgrounds are 640 × 240. We really can't go backwards in quality. Also remember that we have all the original models, textures, sets and cameras to work with, plus of course complete familiarity with the atmosphere and tone of the final product, and the strong desire to replicate it all faithfully to honour the game we love.

[Sekto Springs]

I second the Trine example.

[skychase2rebirth]

The old backgrounds are 640 × 240. We really can't go backwards in quality. Also remember that we have all the original models, textures, sets and cameras to work with, plus of course complete familiarity with the atmosphere and tone of the final product, and the strong desire to replicate it all faithfully to honour the game we love.

Having all these would be soooo awesome, with PLE 0.7... Woohoo ! Countless mods and hacks

[zimfromBM]

who is JAW? How many people are working for them? do you have an office?

[moxco]

Oh, if Abe HD is going to be a side-scroller then 2.5D makes perfect sense. I assumed it would use screens - in which case 2.5 would be completely pointless.

[Xavier]

I realy don't see why you guys doubt that a current engine correctly configured and polished can't give a rendering that is better then what they used back in 1997.

[Glitch]

I realy don't see why you guys doubt that a current engine correctly configured and polished can't give a rendering that is better then what they used back in 1997.

I've played through AO recently, and, with my game developing hat on, can tell you that modern rendering engines can make backgrounds as nice, if not nicer than the vast majority of the backgrounds that can be seen in AO. Normal maps weren't even in use by 1997!

It's okay if you don't believe me.

[Nate]

It's okay if you don't believe me.

I'll believe you when the first trailers come out.

[Wil]

who is JAW? How many people are working for them? do you have an office?

JAW is a UK video game developer. There are currently six of us working in the office.

[Phylum]

So 7 people including you?

[Wil]

Actually, I'm eating Frosties right now.

[Glitch]

He is.

[Xavier]

I've played through AO recently, and, with my game developing hat on, can tell you that modern rendering engines can make backgrounds as nice, if not nicer than the vast majority of the backgrounds that can be seen in AO. Normal maps weren't even in use by 1997!

It's okay if you don't believe me.

Hum, yeah, that was my point... can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

[lloyd]

I've played through AO recently, and, with my game developing hat on, can tell you that modern rendering engines can make backgrounds as nice, if not nicer than the vast majority of the backgrounds that can be seen in AO. Normal maps weren't even in use by 1997!

It's okay if you don't believe me.

as long as you don't optimise it past the point of looking good, repeating textures are one thing but you'll neen lots of nice unique pieces, the styles of AO are amazing.

that's not a criticism on you guys there I just mean I hope you give it that extra texture love

[Glitch]

Hum, yeah, that was my point... can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

Sorry about that Xavier, I meant to use your quote as a supporting example of what I was trying to say but that doesn't come off at all in my post.

tda has just said it pretty well; take a screenshot from AO and compare it with a screenshot from Drake's Fortune.

[tda]

To be honest I fear that doing it in realtime will mean that the quality will take a step backward instead of forward. It's going to be very hard to top the original backgrounds and I've rarely, if never, seen realtime graphics that looked as good as the AO backgrounds.

It sounds like your nostalgia is making you biased. That video of Trine 2 earlier in the thread proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that today's realtime > 1997's prerendered in terms of fidelity and detail. Watch it in 1080 and then look at a gameplay vid of Abe's Oddysee. I don't think you have anything to be worried about.

The major defining factor in what is going to make our realtime version look good is the artist, they are not all created equal. This is precisely why i'm still looking for an env artist good enough to fill these very large shoes.

[Havoc]

I realy don't see why you guys doubt that a current engine correctly configured and polished can't give a rendering that is better then what they used back in 1997.

Because realtime rendering is something completely different from pre-rendering. There are limits to how much you can render in real-time. Polygon limits, amount of textures that need to be loaded, lighting detail, shadow detail. All that stuff.

In a pre-rendered scene you could fill it up with details and make it look lifelike if you want. The final image would maybe take a couple of hours to completely render on a high resolution, depending on computer power.

Rendering a same detailed high res scene like that in real time is near impossible, that's the point I'm trying to make. You'd have to cut a LOT of corners to make sure the scene is rendered properly in a timely fashion.

I guess the best example I can give of this is Donkey Kong Country Returns. The original games had some awesome and 'detailed' backgrounds which were pre-rendered just like in AO (with smooth scrolling, might I add). In the new 2,5D version the backgrounds look a lot less lively to me, nowhere near how they used to look.

But hey, I guess we'll see how it turns out if you do decide to go with realtime. I really hope I'm wrong on this one.

[AvengingGibbons]

Donkey Kong Country... isn't that a 'nintendo' game? :P hardly surprising..

[Havoc]

The principle is exactly the same though.

[AvengingGibbons]

Ok, but, we're talking 15 years later here, computers are way more powerful. I agree with tda that the quality of the visuals primarily depends on the artist and not on the hardware+software combo because there is more than enough computer power these days to create something more wonderful than the original Abe's pre-rendered imagery.

We just gotta hope tda can pull it off X

[tda]

Because realtime rendering is something completely different from pre-rendering. There are limits to how much you can render in real-time. Polygon limits, amount of textures that need to be loaded, lighting detail, shadow detail. All that stuff.

In a pre-rendered scene you could fill it up with details and make it look lifelike if you want. The final image would maybe take a couple of hours to completely render on a high resolution, depending on computer power.

Rendering a same detailed high res scene like that in real time is near impossible, that's the point I'm trying to make. You'd have to cut a LOT of corners to make sure the scene is rendered properly in a timely fashion.

I guess the best example I can give of this is Donkey Kong Country Returns. The original games had some awesome and 'detailed' backgrounds which were pre-rendered just like in AO (with smooth scrolling, might I add). In the new 2,5D version the backgrounds look a lot less lively to me, nowhere near how they used to look.

But hey, I guess we'll see how it turns out if you do decide to go with realtime. I really hope I'm wrong on this one.

I think you are seriously doubting what modern game engines are capable of rendering.

But for arguments sake lets say you're right and that you can pack more objects into a shot that's completely 2D, that doesn't necessarily make it look better. The example you gave with donkey kong was a measure of "how much you liked" the backdrops, but there are a lot of things that contribute towards a scene being aesthetically pleasing. The amount of pixels or polygons on screen isn't necessarily the most important one. Let me give you an example.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PU-gVfGz1u...out+masks1.jpg

Doesn't look that good, does it? But this is the best example i could find of "loads of stuff on the screen" that realtime engines might have a problem with (they wouldn't, but i digress).

My point here is the quality of the backgrounds and environments that we make for AbeHD isn't going to be limited by technical ceilings, it's going to be directly in line with the artistic skill of the people who make it. The decision between 2d and 2.5d therefore comes down to gameplay reasons only, and the arena of 2.5d provides for a much richer gaming experience overall than flat 2d.

We just gotta hope tda can pull it off X

I won't be tackling it alone, i hope.

[AvengingGibbons]

I won't be tackling it alone, i hope.

I hope not too, I can't wait till 2015.. I read you said you were looking for an env artist so I assumed you had the responsibility of finding the game artists (or maybe not, just an assumption)

[Varrok]

http://gamezroomx.files.wordpress.co...field3-011.jpg

The buildings in the background are mainly just cuboids with a pretty texture(s)! (not counting the closest one, im talking more about the ones on the right)... and we're talking about newest technology engine made to look best

[Xavier]

Varrok, wow, are you realy going to be of such bad faith with the guys from JAW? Are you sincerely thinking battelfield's engine isn't good enough to power a 2.5d game?

[tda]

Varrok - Quite right, but what's your point? Unless your point is just that they are cuboids, but without any kind of context it doesn't really challenge the arguments that i made.

AvengingGibbons - I'm the main artist here so yeah i handle all artist applications, i'll also be working on the environments too when i run out of characters to make.

[Varrok]

Ok, from this point I'll stop ranting - I'm just seriously worried about the future of the remake and want it to be at least as good as original game back in 97 :P It's like most remakes of good old games went crap and it doesn't pay for me to be an optymist anymore

[STM]

Why worry, the remake is in good hands.