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  #1  
11-06-2006, 08:14 PM
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Question Oddworld vs Modern Terra

DISCLAIMER: I know we had a thread on this subject, but its months old by now. Also, it pertains to an idea for a new website, and possible fanfiction.


Making an Oddworld vs Modern Terra fanfiction, or setting up a site in the spirit of Stardestroyer.net? (a website dedicated to comparing Star Wars and Star Trek). Stardestroyer compares the numbers, energy yield, crew,tactics,special advantages,weaponry,armouring,shielding,and many other aspects of both Star Trek and Star Wars ships.

Admitedly, due to the lack of published books with detailed info on the Oddworldoverse, it may prove to be a lot more difficult. But already, we can surmise that Oddworld doesn't seem to have expanded much beyond their world, or even continent. If they were shown to be capable of easily conquering a world, it wouldn't be a debate. But since they are Oddbound it seems, a debate is possible.

For instance, would Slig's heights and pants be an advantage or disadvantage? Could Glukkons potentially marshall a combat force? Does the Magog Cartel possess tanks? How would EMP influence the conflict? What effects would such a war have on both sides?
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  #2  
11-07-2006, 05:19 AM
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I think that being that Oddworld is such a big planet, and that we have only seen parts of one contient, we have no such idea what Oddworld is cabable of. But however, we can view on how strong the Mudos army is from what we know.

A Slig's pants and height would only be a disadvantage if they are normal sized, with normal pants. Flying Sligs, and Soilder Classed Sligs on the other hand, would have no problem fighting. Flying Sligs have a ton of grenades, while Big Bros are stuck in their pants. And being that Flying Sligs can dodge most missiles going towards them, there is no problem. Big Bros also have very effictive guns, so we could worry more about the enemy fighting them. So, nah, Sligs are fine.

The Magog Cartel I believe only possesses tanks for the Sligs. You can see that in TOE.

This should also be in GO.
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  #3  
11-07-2006, 10:58 AM
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Well, we do have information on Oddworld creatures heights, based on a chart from MO. Unfortunately, since TOGG seems to be down, I can't get it up. They were about half to 60% of the average male human adult's height.

Lets look at numbers. It's understandable on an old pre XP computer to restrict Sligs Inhabitants to about five at most. But on a next generator console like the Xbox? A heavily guarded facility generally has around 60 Sligs, 20 Big Bros, and 3-5 Snoozers. Given that the Magog Cartel appears to be virtually be its own government, surely the extravagantly rich Glukkons should be able to afford more in the way of security?

Flubco is a huge facility, probably several square kilometers wide, and Glukkons are rich enough to fund a private army.Sligs, based on their overall attitude and general game appearances, don't seem to be payed much, and Mudokons, who would help make their equipment, aren't paid zilch! So why would an evident millionaire, the CEO of Flubco, not get his private army?

A possible explanation could be legality. Perhaps Lady Margaret does not want her little ones growing too powerful and challenging her. But why would they? Glukkons are intensely obsessed with pleasing their own mother (Momma's gonna be so proud!).

However, I'm probably operating on argument from ignorance here. A few Glukkons probably don't represent an entire species attitude to their mother, much as a few humans don't represent their entire species political views. For instance, if Molluck is so attached to Maggie, why would he not accept her punishment, as justice? And even if we discount the forces of Glukdom, we still have some of Oddworlds other known powerbrokers, the Vykkers, to discuss.

Vykkers are dangerous to the Magog Cartel. They are almost as powerful, almost as rich, and even more heartless. Also, Vykkers do not have any dependancy on a queen, or even each other, due to their hermaphroditidity. If you killed all Vykker but one, the population would probably be replenished to a thousands in a few years. However, Vykkers only have armour, which could be pierced by concentrated fire, Lil Hackers, which will compete in an age where anything less advanced than a lightsaber in hand to hand is virtually useless in combat, and Snuzis, which are not designed to be lethal, and may not work on human bloodstreams.

Also, the Magog Cartel has not shown any evidence of nuclear technology or nuclear weapons. Once again, it may be an argument from ignorance, but at least they do have some special advantages.

Low guard wages. As aformentionedly discussed, Sligs seemed to be payed a pittance. They are "leased out" at birth to various Magog establishments, which would seem to imply they have no choice in the matter, and may even be slaves. In which case, wages aren't a concern at all. Sligs seem to regard ammo, guns, and beating Muds as their payment, so the all important finances of the Glukkons are safe. For now.

As has been previously discussed on this forum, Sligs seem to wield a combination of a machine gun and shotgun. This gives them an advantage over regular human weaponry, which is nowadays mostly just rifles. Sligs can fire fatal shots at fast rates without even breaking a sweat, and they love it too. Some Sligs, like those in the Slig barracks, seem to be elite snipers, albeit not those that are conservative with ammo or noise. They fire at incredibly fast rates, approaching those of a vulcan gun. A few of these elites on a high rock (think Taliban-style desert ambush) could completely annhilate several human squads.
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Last edited by Patrick Vykkers; 11-07-2006 at 11:01 AM..
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  #4  
11-07-2006, 12:57 PM
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Don't believe those height charts. They are horribly inaccurate.
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11-07-2006, 05:23 PM
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I'm guessing that the only true size comparsion is sprite (not the soda) size on the big screen.

:
It's understandable on an old pre XP computer to restrict Sligs Inhabitants to about five at most.
What do you mean by that? On a single screen? Then that's ridiculous, because I can fit over twenty Sligs in one screen at a time, and the computer didn't freeze. It slowed down a little, but nah, nothing too much.


:
A heavily guarded facility generally has around 60 Sligs, 20 Big Bros, and 3-5 Snoozers.
Don't forget the average Flying Slig, 200 Slogs, and the couple of Gloktigis. But, yah I hear ya.

:
So why would an evident millionaire, the CEO of Flubco, not get his private army?
Because Snoozers and Sligs are the only thing they need. If we remember our knowledge of Snoozers correctly, they are used to eliminate Mudokon villages. Also, why pay for 50 more Sligs, if you already have what you need? Besides, only some Glukkons need private armies. For example, drug dealers from Colombia have private armies because they need them to assissn their trouble makers. Glukkons already have their guns.

:
For instance, if Molluck is so attached to Maggie, why would he not accept her punishment, as justice?
I would imagine it would hurt Mullock more to see his mother in anger and hate him.

For the whole Magog Cartel=Government thing, Glukkons are too worried about paying their rent then using their money to afford more security. Besides, they do pay the Sligs a bit. How else would they pay for steriods? Another thing, paying for their suits, food for the Mudokons, cigarettes, torcure chambers, and other nonsense, doesn't seem like Glukkons find interest in increasing their nearily 300 security unit force.
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  #6  
11-07-2006, 05:35 PM
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Oddworld would degrade us if the natives and industrials worked together. Storm Circles would obliterate cities. Sligs, due to their simple repro, would number greater than our population. That would obliterate all humans.
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  #7  
11-09-2006, 11:32 AM
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I don't think its as simple as that. Shamans are rare, must work together, would never cooperate with the industrials, and also, flood evacuation plans are getting better. A bigger threat would be possession. Imagine if Munch possessed the computers controlling nuclear strikes (which I doubt have antivirus programs prepared for something as bizarre as this), or if Abe possessed Tony Blair, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,Vladimir Putin, or other world leaders. The humans would not have seen a real live possession before, so the humans might not figure out the truth until the damage has already been done.

However, as Abe and Munch seem to have to be nearby to do possessions, they would either have to get a hell of a lot of spooce, which is possible, or stay hidden near the locations of these leaders. Munch needs to get right up for possession, so he would be trickier to protect. Those computers are definitely going to be manned, and almost certainly will be under armed guard.

Of course, this assumes that in this alternate universe, the Oddworld games do not exist. If they do, that gives humans a big leg up. Humans would have access to information on Oddworld tactics, military, and technology. However, as there are still plenty of grey areas on Oddworld, the humans could still lose even with the information.

I wonder what effects non sapient participants could have? Imagine if there was a Fuzzle attack on a rural area, or a Scrab attack against New York. Big devastation. Many deaths. Big cleanup costs.

Another threat would be that of biological warfare. Vykkers would likely be willing and able to concoct things making anthrax look harmless by comparison. One could fly suicide blimps filled with such gas and explosives over New York or Washington, or London, or Tel Aviv, or any other major cities. The very point of the mission would be to get shot down by AA or self destruct, both of which would result in dispersal. In a higher area, it could infect an entire region, possibly even countries.
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  #8  
11-09-2006, 01:00 PM
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If Oddworld atatcked us, we'd be screwed in many aspects. If Natives allied with us we'd win, but if it was Natives/industrials against earth, we'd die. Storm Circles, possesion, Mudokon soldiers as well as Slig soldiers, Vykker biological weaponry and genetically engineered troops, possesed-wildlife attacks, and so on. also Sligs actually have more than just the shotguns and machine guns, there is of course the Blitzpacker, and the concept weapon entitled Big Whammys, basically giant guns. Interns could act as computer hackers, Glukkon generals would be far more terrifying than Bush or Blair, and so on.
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  #9  
11-10-2006, 05:38 PM
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I would have thought that the industrialists would side with us. And the natives would go with the undeveloped countries. It would become more of an Oddworld supported civil war.

Regardless of this and the outcome, I imagine that the human race would end up having much the same relation with Oddworldian wildlife as the humans do with the Zenians in Halflife two.

Ever see that clip of Game Over in the Oddworld Cinema, where the scrabs, paramites and slogs are running rampant in the toxic waste dump?
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  #10  
11-10-2006, 05:42 PM
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Of course, there is one deus ex machina the size of Russia that hasn't been brought up.

Nuclear weapons. Currently, the entire planet has more than 55000 of them, and that's just counting the USA and former USSR. Oddworld, on the other hand, has shown no signs of even being aware of nuclear technology. Once again though, the argument from ignorance principle operates here. The power source of the Cartel is never mentioned, but its likely that some Inhabitants use hydro (Sekto, anyone?). More likely though, they would use coal. Nuclear is clean (once you get rid of the waste), renewable, and expensive. Coal/oil is cheap, non renewable, and dirty. Much more Magog style.

Obviously though, it is entirely possible to use coal/oil and use nuclear weapons. America didn't seem to have trouble with it in WW2, after all, and it had far more morals than the Cartel.
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11-10-2006, 05:48 PM
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Actually they use a product extracted from mudflubs, as produced by Flub Fuels. And their trains run on fat.

Which might be one and the same thing...
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  #12  
11-15-2006, 07:23 PM
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Since comparing the entire universes seems to difficult due to the lack of technical data on the Oddverse, perhaps more individual battles would be better.

10 SAS agents vs 10 Vykker sawbones?

5 Armoured Big Bro's vs an M1 Abrams tank?

100 rabid attack dogs vs 75 Slogs?

An army of 300 Sligs, 50 Big Bros, 10 Slig Tanks, and a 1/4 size of Vykkers labs airship commanded by Dripik vs 225 US soldiers, 25 Jeeps, 8 Abrams, and a Hercules commanded by General Tommy Franks?
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  #13  
11-18-2006, 07:18 AM
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Ofcause, modern US army will own any Oddworld industrialist army for several reasons: weapon technology as shown in the games are obsolete compearing to our modern weapons. But we don't know if glukkons have any military airforce or some weapons compaired to a nucks. Slig's pants are great disadvantage in combat due to their poor maneuvrability and weight. Flying sligs can cause significant damage in urban warfare as they can easily fly between structures and blast their foes with grenades of machine guns also they are hard targets to hit, but the loud groan from their engine is a disadvantage.


Frankly speaking, the Human war or even presense on oddworld must be impossible because the gravitation of the planet should be slightly greather than Earth's... unless it is hollow or something.
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11-18-2006, 07:21 AM
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More interesting theme is Oddworld VS. Star Wars (Empire or Alliance)
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11-18-2006, 07:37 AM
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About bioweapons and possession: who knows if mudokons possess humans, we are from different world and have different biology. Also remember "The war of Worlds" and how Marsians were owned by our viruses. Besides Oddworldians may bring their native viruses to Earth with them and who knows how humans will react on them.
Vykkers bioweapons may fail to affect humans as well as ours may not take an effect on Oddworldians.
And about oddworld glukkon marshals, if they are such as General Dripik, oddworld army will have a chance to win only by overwhelming Earth.
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11-18-2006, 01:13 PM
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:
More interesting theme is Oddworld VS. Star Wars (Empire or Alliance)
That's like comparing Chuck Norris with an amoeba. Star Wars has multi TERATON turbolasers (a single shot is the same power as the meteorite that killed the non tuatara dinosaurs), of which they can fire rapidly, of which there are dozens on a Star Destroyer, and thousands on a Super Star Destroyer. Check out Stardestroyer.net for more details. In any case, they could just Base Delta Zero or Death Star, or Eclipse, or Sun Crush the whole Oddworldian planet or solar system. Even if they had Mudokon level weaponry, they have dozens of Super Star Destroyers, thousands of Star Destroyers, tens of thousands of support craft, and millions of fighters. Not to mention many millions worth of elite, highly trained troops, Sith precognition, Dark Jedi, bounty hunters, saboteurs, superweapons, Red Guard, etc.

The rebellion has not so many ships as the empire, probably tens of thousands of fighters, thousands of support craft, and hundreds of capital ships. And support from the Bothans. And Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Lando Calrissian, Princess Leia, C-3PO and R2-D2, and the Mon Calamari, and countless other races. And the light side of the force. Even if they only had 20 year old weaponry, thats 200 gigatons per shot (200 times the bomb used in The Core, and 133 times Terra's entire nuclear arsenal, of which fires every 0.3 seconds, and of which there are dozens. QED.
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Last edited by Patrick Vykkers; 11-18-2006 at 01:20 PM..
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  #17  
11-19-2006, 01:26 AM
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I'm not mentioning space bombardment, I'm speaking about land invasion conducted by 3 or 5 Imperator-class star destroyers or Mon Calamari cruisers.
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11-19-2006, 11:05 AM
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Still ownage. ISD's have around 9700 military troops. Not to mention 20 AT AT's, 30 AT-ST's, and more (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army). MC-80's don't have as much, but they still carry 1200 troops each, and likely have room for many vehicles, and this all comes with a prefabricated base. E Web's would own Big Bro's like they never existed, AT AT's would slaughter Slig Tanks, even Gloktigi would be killed by AT-ST's, regular Sligs would be no match for stormtroopers, (who were apparently actually ordered to shoot badly in Episode IV, in order for the Rebels to escape, and lead them to their base.) and if even one dark force user got on the battlefield.. well, Sith lightning should have some VERY interesting effects on Slig pants. The Empire's predecessors dealt with a Magog like entity before, and I'm sure if they sent a few more ISD's they could conquer all of the Oddworld races.
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11-19-2006, 11:56 AM
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:
"The war of Worlds" and how Marsians were owned by our viruses
It wasn't viruses who killed them, silly.

:
the meteorite that killed the non tuatara dinosaurs
Tuataras aren't dinosaurs.

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  #20  
11-19-2006, 12:57 PM
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EDIT: I stand corrected.
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Last edited by Patrick Vykkers; 11-19-2006 at 01:06 PM..
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  #21  
11-23-2006, 06:53 AM
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Yes. Even one Imperator-class sd would own Oddworld. But I really don't want the Empire to conquer Oddworld because it would be probably the end of it's nations as Empire probably would run a xenocide against oddworldians (Emperor don't appreciate aliens)
And ,Magnet, re-read the book before insulting others!
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