Grubkon

[Abe 01]

Whats with grubbs? there just like mudokons but no ponytail and shorter, they could have made the same story in Strangers Wrath with mudokons, so why did lorne make grubbs?

[Nath]

Go back to your location

[Abe 01]

whats that supposed to mean

[Dipstikk]

Go back to your location

Wow, that was... rude.

The Mudokons could not have substituted for the grubbs, simply because they don't worship Steefs, whereas the Grubbs did. Plus, Lorne already had Vykkers and Fuzzles making a return appearance in SW, adding Mudokons would have made it too familiar when Lorne wanted the game to be a new experience.

[Xavier]

Agreed with everything Dipstikk said...
even if they are annoyingly looking alike, they aren't the same and don't have the same behaviors at all

[used:)]

Wow, that was... rude.

And Im angry that I didn't think of it.

As for WHY he created them, that just beggs the question, why did he make all the other creatures? They are just another elemnt in the story to make it good.

[Wil]

In my opinion, Abe 01 brings up a good point. Grubbs and Mudokons are worrying similar. The reason OWI created a new cast of characters was so that the story he wanted to tell wouldn't interfere with the fans' expectations of existing characters. That is to say, the Grubbs are militant, quite determined and get pretty bloodthirsty at the height of their war. The Mudokons are disorganised, lazy and passive.

Their similar designs are probably a result of OWI trying to express the same ideas through them: the green skin symbolises closeness with nature; the large eyes give the impression of innocence; and so on.

[monkeybait]

Go back to your location

That was pointless and cruel
Dont do that unprovoked...

I think he wanted the creatures to be slightly different...
He coulda had slogs... but he created slegs instead....

[Slaveless]

I think Lorne wanted a more Western look of creatures. Mudokons are definitly not western. As for the why they were made, most likely because Stranger needed support from the rebels to help him find his path to destory Sekto.

[Wil]

In what way do Grubbs look particularly adapted to the Western genre?

[used:)]

Thats what I was thinking.

To be honest, I thought Lorne was going for an amazonian style of landscape too. What with the lush look of the tutorial. So the grubs are probably being associated with the tribes of the amazon rainforest and among other things...

[Nate]

Well they would fit in well in the Mongo Valley forests, which is probably what the whole valley looked like before the river was dammed.

[used:)]

They could also represent the Native American tribes people who played a major role in the history of old West. Probably the Navajo or other pacifistic kind of people.

As for their phallic appearance, I am thinking thats just something Lorne threw in there for fun.

[Shrink]

I believe they could have told the story just fine with mudokons.
The mudokon race is not one dimensional; it's easy to accept the riverbank dwellers would 'worship' steefs for the protection it brought them.

Grubbz istead of mudokons is one of my gripes with Stranger's Wrath. It smacks of being gratuitous.

Edit: And while we're on the topic of how the grubbs were inspired - you can bet your bottom dollar east asia is in there somewhere.

[Oddish]

I too think Grubbs are inspired by native americans, if you looks at their articheture and buildings, it does have similarity. Also the grubbs influence does tie in with the western theme, think about Indians and Cowboys. Another thing is the whole freedom of water based idea, American Indians are very respectful towards the enivroment like the grubbs are, so I think it makes sense that the grubbs included in game and story would have a more obvious resemblance to the old western age. And lets not forget the quotes.

The Grubbs battle armor looks like it has been inspired by Japanease samuries though.

[used:)]

Thats actually a good point about he armor, it appears to be made of wood and the first inhabitants of Japan wore clothes made of tree bark.

[Wil]

While I agree everything that everyone is saying is true, I can't accept it as an excuse as to why Mudokons were replaced. Mudokons are generalisation of native tribes around the world anyway: their culture and beliefs probably change with geography. From the art book we know they were originally going to be the inhabitants of the Mongo river valley, worshipping, among other things, the annual return of the Gabbits to breed at Ma Spa. Mudokons also have a great respect for the environment, though from what we've seen they merely understand and appreciate nature rather than hold animist beliefs.

In that way, the inclusion of Grubbs seems to serve only as a way to include very specific reference to Native Americans. That certainly doesn't help to overcome the common perception that OSW is nothing more than a Western. Neither does the toning down of the Eastern design elements, from what I can remember.

It's not that I dislike the Grubb characters. I think they're great. Exploring new Oddworld cultures isn't a frivolous exercise, but perhaps creating an entirely new race to represent that culture is.

[Paramite Mask]

Well, when I play SW, I like to the think of the Grubbs as distant relatives to the Mudokons. They seem to me like a mix of a Native American, a Mudokon, and a newt. So to me, the Mudokons are some what in Stranger's Wrath. To me the cultur of the Grabbs is pretty similar to the native Mudokons: they are in balance with nature, they believe of an industrialst known as a heartless demon, though they are slackers at times they are willing enough to fight for their land(mudokon warriors, and they tend to be clumsy at times. If you don't think Grubbs are slackers at times, I have a bit of proof.(I hope his isn't a spoiler) When you get the assignment to invade the Wolvark base, they tell you a great Steef boat at the end. When you get there, it is poorly made and starts to wither. The clumsiness can be noticed when you walk around the Grubb village. This is just my opinion.

[used:)]

There is a possibility that the grubbs are an early form of Mudokon, it would make sense, considering the game features an early form of Glukkon and possibly Slog.

[Wil]

Grubbs evolved from fish. Mudokons evolved from birds. Their common ancestry would have to go back a long way.

[Paramite Mask]

Ah, it was just a thought. I'm just an enormus fan of native Mudokons, so I like to compare them with alot of things. Grubbs still remind me of Mudokons. I can't help it. Oh, one more thing: Is SW a prequel by chance? Because many of species look like early versions of others. A big example of my thought of this are the Slegs.

[Shrink]

no, not a prequel

faq

[Nate]

From the art book we know they were originally going to be the inhabitants of the Mongo river valley, worshipping, among other things, the annual return of the Gabbits to breed at Ma Spa.

I know I read somewhere (and I think it was in the art book) that the muds in that picture were only put in because the grubbs had not yet been designed but they wanted to conceptualise the Mongo Valley. And of course, it has been said elsewhere of the Grubbs that they worshipped the Gabbit swarms.

I have no problem with the Grubbs. I think they are cute, funny, have an interesting ethos/collective personality and are distinctive enough for my tastes.