The End of the World (Well. Crap.)

[Esus]

[q]I think the really enemy of the Earth is the Humans.[/q]
Bol-locks.
The real enemies of the Earth include massive meteors, black holes and stuff like that.
Humans live on the planet, and half of us love the earth and try our best to conserve it - within 1st world society reason, of course.

I don't see what everybody, everywhere, has against humanity. Every ****ing person seems to say humanity is a bad idea, that we'll all kill ourselves, that we're destroying the planet and such.
No we're not. We're living on it and consuming it, like other animals. At least we attempt to put back what we take away, you don't see any giraffes planting new trees, do you?

Then so be it, we shouldnt fear the end.

Of course we should. It's the end of the world. What the hell else is there to fear? End of the world in this context, equalling death, of course.

It's only natural we have weapons of mass destruction. I'd like to see any meat-eating animal who isn't slighly aggresive when the circumstances are right. And remember, the majority of humans are jolly nice people who aren't in for beating the shit out of anyone. Not really, really.

Sure, nuclear weapons are nasty, but we're not going to use them, and or testing doesn't do that much damage.

The causing of global warming isn't that special either, we've become a massively prosperous collective of civilisations with awesome technology, brilliant life expectancies and amazing qualities of lives. We could be the most advanced race in the entire universe. Global warming is a small price to pay for our majestic civilisation.

[Rich]

I agree. Stop over reacting. We're all going to die someday, we may as well make the most of our wonderful technology.

We could be the most advanced race in the entire universe. Global warming is a small price to pay for our majestic civilisation.

Here, Here. I'm inspired to go burn something.

[Esus]

but overreacting makes me look more extremist which is fun.

[Rich]

but overreacting makes me look more extremist which is fun.

My comment wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at the anti-technology and anti- humanity peoples who will no doubt disagree with us.

[Coolmanbizkit]

My comment wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at the anti-technology and anti- humanity peoples who will no doubt disagree with us.

I'm not anti-Technology, i love technology

[Reptile]

Hopefully they'll make some sort of invulnerable injection. If not, once we're gone, a genetically squid race will replace us, or we might be harvested by some sort of alien race.

[Facsimile]

but we're not going to use them, and or testing

Of course not. I test things all the time that I am never ever going to use...

[Leto]

At least we attempt to put back what we take away, you don't see any giraffes planting new trees, do you?

You don't see giraffes creating nuclear warheads either...

It's only natural we have weapons of mass destruction. I'd like to see any meat-eating animal who isn't slighly aggresive when the circumstances are right.

Yes, but do these meat-eating animals cause 'mass destruction' by being slightly aggresive, or do they just keill a few animals for natural dietary reasons?

Sure, nuclear weapons are nasty, but we're not going to use them, and or testing doesn't do that much damage.

If we created them, we surely had a need for them, and intended to use them?

Global warming is a small price to pay for our majestic civilisation.

Pour quois(sp?)?! That's like saying a mouse that has made a stick a slightly different shaped stick, then, consequentually(actual word?), he must be stomped on until his eyes are expelled from his skull.

Sorry, am angry. I am just expressing my views, even if they conflict with yours. I don't wanna be enemies. If I am being a bastard, slap me.

[Volsung]

Our Majestic civilization, as Esus so aptly puts it, is crap. We work harder and longer than any society before us has, and our children are likely to work harder than we do. Our technological advances are trivial when seen in the light of the damage they do. (And that's saying a lot). Depression and mental illness are forever on the rise, while they were virtually unknown in the "native" world until we introduced christianity to them. We have a tendency to lead stress filled lives and set standards which are diametrically opposed to each other. As in: Monogamy and Two people working career jobs. Think about it.

What makes people think humans are so special to begin with? "We have abstract thought, that means we'll be the only species ever to expand beyond our means?" The prediliction is to think of the resource greedy, environment bashing societys as the basis for human thought, when its simply not true. If the first homo sapien sapien to fall out of its mother's womb had created a race that acts the way we do, we would not be here today.

And while I'm ranting, Global Warming isn't just a notch up on some global thermostat. No one can turn a dial and fix the problem. And it won't lead to a big happy greenhouse either. I'm not saying we're facing a waterworld-type future, just that when the water level rises globally, groundwater rises as well. Suddenly valleys are lakes and swamps. We're already stacking people on top of one another, what happens when the sea level rises fifteen feet? If someone wants to find the statistics somewhere, I'm sure I've heard that the global temperature of the ice ages wasn't more than ten degrees colder. I think its more like two, but I'm trying to play it safe.

"I just planted a tree." Oh goody. I'm sure that planting that spindly little pine where those sequoyas were will really help avert any ecological ramifications.

Seriously, this thing about humans nigh unto gods is way overblown. Even the worst gods don't play to kill off the whole board. Way I see it, we're just the first kids to make it the abstract playground, and now we get to kill anything that might want in. I'm not anti-humans, and I'm not anti-technology. First of all, I'm human, and I don't think its wise to think of yourself as inescapably, genetically evil and wrong. Thats crap. And second, technology's not the problem. Its this (thing) where we stick with the first dumb idea because it made some people rich. I'm pro-technology, lets start using it to make our lives easier, our air better, and the land less polluted. I'm anti-[Technology=pollution]. And that's where its at.

Before one goes spouting about the brilliant life expectancies and amazing quality of life, it might be prudent to take a look beyond your backyard. Bad health, short lives and overall shitholes are not few in number. A more than fair portion of these caused by the same prosperity we revel in. I don't suggest one drop material things and become a hermit because that won't help anything. But it would be good to get some perspective about where all those material goods come from, who makes them and under what circumstances.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop here and, (my apologies to super munch) I wholeheartedly agree with super munch. And I'm not trying to make enemies either.

And PS, under no circumstance do the words "slightly aggressive" and "Weapons of Mass Destruction" have common ground. (I'm probably over-reacting, but I'm probably pissed the f**k off).

Volsung

[Facsimile]

I agree totally with Volsung.
Except I'm a little more anti-human than him.

[Leto]

"I just planted a tree." Oh goody. I'm sure that planting that spindly little pine where those sequoyas were will really help avert any ecological ramifications.

Couldn't have been said better. "I just planted a tree." Whoopdie-shit.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop here and, (my apologies to super munch) I wholeheartedly agree with super munch. And I'm not trying to make enemies either.

Volsung

Yay! People can happily argue! MY LIFE HAS MEANING!!!

[Esus]

@Volsung, Yeah, you're right. I just don't like people being overly-anti-human (I'm not even sure if anyone was in this thread). Seems a little hypocrititical; or something similar to that.

[WiLL the Wander]

The most of the humans have two, very important things: Intelligence and Wisdom. The creators of the Nuclear bomb and those who used it don't have this two things. If we keep this two thing alive in this planet, the humanity will survive for millions of years.

[Rich]

Modern Technology is all about improving upon old technology to make it cleaner and safer. Nuclear weapons are really shit, but without experiments in Nuclear power we'd still be burning huge amounts of Fossil fuels, which would do Earth no good.

Anyway, most Governments are signing up to reduce polution and global warming. America can't sign up. If they did they would lose all their money and be a third world nation.

[Oddish]

Many people probaly think that humans are just a bad idea, but they are not. It's just that some of us can think and do horrlbe things. Many people can murder, , destroy, stuff like that. Those people do have cold hearts, and nagatetive feelings, and they would probalty derserv to die. And now the Earth is getting alot of negative energy from those people, and no one likes that.

Humans can very good and more positive too, if they not do these kinda things,and it is for their own and our good.

[Joe the Intern]

There's a lot of dumb shit in this thread. To start, humans are not naturally good or bad. We're not oil-hungry shit monsters, and we're not LSD-dropping tree huggers, either. Most of us are indifferent. And this stuff about the earth being "alive"... That's ridiculous beyond words.

The reason we use so many resources is because we use our minds more than we use our bodies. The reason we have become the dominant species is because we're able to USE the resources, so naturally we have to, otherwise we wouldn't be able to do much at all. Of course, we shouldn't suck 'em down like a fat man at Dairy Queen, but god damn, we should be allowed to use them.

Another point. The bad things we've done don't outweigh the good things we've accomplished. All of our achievements in mathematics, philosophy, and all around science (I'm not talking technical science). We've achieved such a huge amount, just for the sake of KNOWLEDGE. To give up the pursuit of science would be lunacy. I didn't even mention art and culture... Don't go insane. Humans are bad, and they're good. We have Mother Theresas, and we have land barons. Let's deal with it and not take the pussy way out by giving it up.

[Languor]

Humans are bad, and they're good. We have Mother Theresas, and we have land barons. Let's deal with it and not take the pussy way out by giving it up.

Here, here. I agree with you though Joe. Not using things provided to us is just stupid - especially when these things have the potential to better our lives. Eventually when our species is in need of resources we'll find a way to get by - we have in the past, we will in the future. Humans will probably continue to live for a very long time due to the technology we've developed throughout time.

Oh, this reminds me: sidebar question. Who belives in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? Cellular organisms don't count. I'm talking about species that are technologically advanced and have established advanced societies. Personally, I think that there has to be at least one other civilization out there. The universe is just too big for there not to be... too many possabilities... too many conditions... I just can't see how there isn't.

Say what you think.

[Gretin]

Oh, this reminds me: sidebar question. Who belives in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? Cellular organisms don't count. I'm talking about species that are technologically advanced and have established advanced societies. Personally, I think that there has to be at least one other civilization out there. The universe is just too big for there not to be... too many possabilities... too many conditions... I just can't see how there isn't.

I try to keep a neutral opinion on things that I have no idea about, but I agree that it is possible, and also the universe is so big that it would seem strange to just have one intelligent species in it! But, as I have no idea, I am neutral about this.

[Volsung]

humans are not naturally good or bad. We're not oil-hungry shit monsters, and we're not LSD-dropping tree huggers, either. Most of us are indifferent.

Agreed.

The reason we have become the dominant species is because we're able to USE the resources, so naturally we have to, otherwise we wouldn't be able to do much at all.

I'm not sure I have a clue what you mean, here. Everything living uses resources, what makes our cultures different from most animals is that we're driven to over-use. Our societal idea of the perfect life happens to be one that is exceedingly resource heavy. One might argue that animals tend to over-use as well, (and one would be right) but other animals aren't capable of exploiting as well as we are. Does that mean we should? We're the only species that can cause nuclear winter, therefore we should?

The bad things we've done don't outweigh the good things we've accomplished. All of our achievements in mathematics, philosophy, and all around science (I'm not talking technical science).

This is arguable. It depends on what you think are bad things and what you think are good things. I might think that having to work forty hours a week at a mindless job is bad. And you might say that because I work those hours I get electricity, warmth and a roof. At the end of the day, the niceties of life are subjective. Some need them, some don't.

I think the bad outweighs the good because our culture has a tendency to expand beyond its means. I don't think that in the future when we've destroyed all the natural resources there will be some magic pill to save humanity. And I think that even if there were, who'd save the rest of the creatures on earth? Who's to say they won't one day be capable of thinking on our level or beyond?

To give up the pursuit of science would be lunacy. I didn't even mention art and culture... Don't go insane. Humans are bad, and they're good. We have Mother Theresas, and we have land barons. Let's deal with it and not take the pussy way out by giving it up.

I may have missed something, but I don't recall anyone suggesting we toss out science, or abandon art and culture. The last two aren't even things we could abandon if we wanted too. We're hardwired, so to speak. Nevertheless, the pussy way out is to accept the eventual destruction of the earth's species to feed us as the inevitable way of things. The pussy way out is saying, "We're smarter than anything else so we deserve whatever we can get."

Again, humans aren't bad or good; technology isn't bad or good. What matters is being smart about the way you live your life. Resources don't last forever, no matter how limitless the supply of water from the tap.

Oh, and Rich the Intern's right about modern technology improving on the old. I don't think nuclear is the way to do it, since the waste is next to impossible to get rid of, but fossil fuels won't cut it. Besides, whats the latest projection? 2050, something like that, before there just isn't any more fossil fuels on earth. Period. It would be nice to have an alternative source that couldn't sterilize everything for a mile radius.

As for intelligent, technologically advanced civilizations elsewhere. Of course there are. Why wouldn't there be? On the other hand, why would they have to be technologically advanced to count? For most of human history our most complex tool was a sharp rock. And those people were genetically IDENTICAL to who we are now. The creation of the plough didn't make us smarter, it just meant we worked harder.

[Leto]

I just don't like people being overly-anti-human (I'm not even sure if anyone was in this thread). Seems a little hypocrititical; or something similar to that.

Yes. Definatley. If people hate humans that much, kill yourself and spare us your mindless drawling, because we hate you too. (Not you, Facsimile, just overly sad people who hate people purely because they are people. People (I'll say it a few more times if you like...).)
Yes, of course there are other intelligent life forms in the universe! Anyone who says there isn't any possibility that there is life apart from us, is either stupid, mis-informed or extremely religious.

[Facsimile]

Yes. Definatley. If people hate humans that much, kill yourself and spare us your mindless drawling, because we hate you too. (Not you, Facsimile, just overly sad people who hate people purely because they are people. People (I'll say it a few more times if you like...).)

Yay! Not me!

But the only reason I'm a bit (Note: a bit) anti-human is that as a whole, we are slowly destroying the planet (and no, I don't think it's alive, I'm not a crackpot) that we live on.

And yes, I think life must exist on planets other than ours. I mean, the universe is infinite.
And if anyone creates a thread using my quote about the universe being infinite I'm going to scream.

[Leto]

But the only reason I'm a bit (Note: a bit) anti-human is that as a whole, we are slowly destroying the planet (and no, I don't think it's alive, I'm not a crackpot) that we live on.

No matter how much people say that creating technology and self helping humans do, we are most definatley killing earth.(Destroying is a better word...)

And yes, I think life must exist on planets other than ours. I mean, the universe is infinite.

Well said. The Milky Way (or whatever it is, not resembeling Milky or Way.), is but a very small fragment, insignificant fragment, of the universe.

And if anyone creates a thread using my quote about the universe being infinite I'm going to scream.

I will scream for no reason.:P And why would they do that?

[Facsimile]

Because everytime I take a slight jab at religion, or I say something controversial, someone makes a thread out of it. I've started two religious debate threads that way, and I'm not happy about it, as people write out a thousand, million word posts everyday in those things, and by the time I check it again I'm lost.

[Leto]

Oh. That reason.
Now people, you can believe this comet will collide with the world in 1.5 decades or so, from a 0.06 thoery, but do you honestly think that's much of a threat?

*Bill Clinton mode off.*

[Rich]

I mean, the universe is infinite.

Hell yeah! God's still building, but eventually God will run out of Space in his hobbie room.

Earth will be destroyed one day by the natural ways of the universe. There's nothing we can do about it, so we may as well be immoral bastards while we can!

*steals stuff*

we are most definatley killing earth

Earth is a ball of Rock. Get over it. Btw, If I'm being a cock, don't worry. I mean no harm.

[Esus]

Why shouldn't we kill and destroy the Earth slowly, if our fate and the Earth's fate is as inevitable and soon as many people claim?

[Joe the Intern]

I think the bad outweighs the good because our culture has a tendency to expand beyond its means. I don't think that in the future when we've destroyed all the natural resources there will be some magic pill to save humanity. And I think that even if there were, who'd save the rest of the creatures on earth? Who's to say they won't one day be capable of thinking on our level or beyond?

I know that our culture expands beyond its means, and that's something that needs to be changed. The whole point of my post was that the negatives in humanity must be changed, and we shouldn't give up on ourselves yet. But I don't think the bad outweighs the good yet, because most of us are willing to change our ways. We just haven't done it yet.

I'm not sure I have a clue what you mean, here. Everything living uses resources, what makes our cultures different from most animals is that we're driven to over-use. Our societal idea of the perfect life happens to be one that is exceedingly resource heavy. One might argue that animals tend to over-use as well, (and one would be right) but other animals aren't capable of exploiting as well as we are. Does that mean we should? We're the only species that can cause nuclear winter, therefore we should?

What I meant was, we're able to think of new ways to use resources. Our species was built on the use of tools, essentially, and tools require more resources than just food sources. As we develop more tools, we require more resources. We are driven to over-use, but only because of our need for tools. I'm not saying at all that we should be allowed to take whatever we please. What I'm saying is that we should be allowed to live within our means without getting rid of necessary things.

I may have missed something, but I don't recall anyone suggesting we toss out science, or abandon art and culture. The last two aren't even things we could abandon if we wanted too. We're hardwired, so to speak. Nevertheless, the pussy way out is to accept the eventual destruction of the earth's species to feed us as the inevitable way of things. The pussy way out is saying, "We're smarter than anything else so we deserve whatever we can get."

I wasn't making any remarks about what anyone has said here. Rather, I was talking more about the idea of anti-humanism. I suppose I shouldn't've said art and culture. I figured I was on a roll. I figured wrong.

[Abeguy]

yes, it is shit isn't it?
2000! The world will end

that's just peachy

I'm looking forward to it

[Leto]

Earth will be destroyed one day by the natural ways of the universe. There's nothing we can do about it, so we may as well be immoral bastards while we can!

Booya to that! Hopefully, when the earth is being destroyed, humans will not build a huge spaceship thingy to go to another planet, because then history will just repeat itself. (With covenant... :P )

Earth is a ball of Rock. Get over it.

That it is. A gaseous ball of crap where we and all the other animal kingdom inhabit like lice. Can we not find another ball of rock to call our planet(to ruin, again)? (Ok, probably not...)

[Oddly Insane]

my planet is my chair,bed,some good games, and my X-box