Why heaven and hell can’t exist -

picturey · #31 10-07-2003, 09:19 PM

:

Originally posted by Splat
I haven't bothered to read all of this but I will tell you, God made time, therefore it is common sence that he will exist out of it. Second, God knows what's gonna happen to all humans, but not what's gonna happen to angels. He didn't know the lucifer was gonna turn evil, he just dealt with it the best way he could.
3, he allowed satan to tempt Adam and Eve so they would have free will, if they hadn't had the chance to disobey God they wouldn't have free will, they would simply do everything God told them to do. That is the same reason he doesn't just kill us or forcefully convert us all into Christians right now, he's giving us the choice, he's giving us free will.
God can be anywhere on EARTH, but he doesn't go to Hell, he has given that realm to Satan to have on his own. The fact that God is omnipotent is in Earth standards only, but Heaven and Hell are outside of Earth standards and time. As I said before, he knows most of what's gonna happen on Earth, but not outside of Earth standards.
His reason for creating life was a mix of lonelyness and boredom. If you lived alone, completely cut off from everything, including desiese and sickness, so you could never die, you would want some company. So he made people. He didn't want mindless drones as friends so he gave us free will. To do this, he had to let us cope with temptation as well. He's only all-powerful in our standards remember.
In the case of Noah's ark, your forgetting that God has C-O-M-P-L-E-T-E control over all living things on Earth. He chooses not to use his power over humans so they can have free will. Buit occasionally he calls creatures to do his will. He can call animals to get on an ark. He could fit every member of the forums in to a phone boothe! He doesn't need to follow Earth logic cause he made Earth logic, everything from the fact that all substances on Earth are made up of 108 elements to the fact that gravity keeps us on Earth.
All your stuff about humans massive amount of sinning comes back to free will. He gives us the choice to sin so we have the oppertunity to make our own choices (we generally tend to make the wrong ons though). And he created recources that we can use to develope. It was our choice to start inhaling tar. And it was our choice to start... you know!
Life isn't a test, and if it wasn't for all human sinning we'd still be enjoying life for it's original purpose, to be friends with God and live with him in perfection.

Any more questions?

welp there goes my religion!

Joshy · #32 10-07-2003, 11:17 PM

:

Originally posted by Dave
note: BC is, indeed, Before Christ.
AD is Latin, Anno Domini, which means In the year of our lord.

Now its BCE Before Common Era
AD is now CE Common Era

spliff_kid · #33 10-08-2003, 12:07 PM

Well i think if ya beleave in something and its right then ur bloddy,well lucky other than be who will go to hell cause i have dissed god to the max!

Splat · #34 10-08-2003, 03:55 PM

Picturey, what do you mean by that?
Joshy, never heard that before.
Mac, it's 30 years exactly.
Oddfan, I don't know what you mean by that. personally, if God told me to go and give all my money to you guys I would do it.
Spiff_kid, I don't know how seriousely you mean that beut I tell ya this, Jesus was hangin on the cross in sheer pain and forgave all the sins of a dangerous murderer who hung beside him without a second thought.

Jacob · #35 10-08-2003, 04:04 PM

:

Jesus was hangin on the cross in sheer pain and forgave all the sins of a dangerous murderer who hung beside him without a second thought.

That murderer should have gone to Hell. It looks like my theory is correct, you can maim, rape and kill thousands of women, men and children but so long as you love God you will go straight to Heaven. Naughty, naughty God...

Splat · #36 10-08-2003, 04:15 PM

Acctually, you can't go about saying you love God and then killing and such. That's like saying you'll play football and never EVER turning up to any practices or even game, yet still claiming to be in the football team.

What I meant was, Jesus forgave the guy of all his sins because he willfully was sorry and knew that if he wasn't about to die he would start his life from scratch, living a good life. Jesus forgave him of all his sins. That's how much he loves us. You could go out now and kill every living thing in America, Australia and Africa, and as long as you truly were sorry, and you truly wanted to conform, God would forgive you and take your sins.
The murderer looked at Jesus hanging next to him, and not only knew that he was innocent of any crimes, he recognised him as someone special, he recognised that this guy, hanging next to him, dying the death of a terrible criminal, as the son of God, the person he knew could help him. So Jesus did help him.
If you said to God now, I'm sorry that I sin, please forgive me, unless you were truly sorry for all the evil things you've done, you might as well try asking the wall. Ask God and want to believe, and you will.

picturey · #37 10-08-2003, 11:47 PM

:

Originally posted by Splat
Picturey, what do you mean by that?

i haf no idea!

Facsimile · #38 10-09-2003, 03:02 AM

:

Originally posted by Oddfan
those of you who are not christians and are trying to say it's not true have no real or good proof I could type millions of things that would prove to you god is real but I don't have time to type that much.

Isn't that funny? The only one here who has definate proof of god's existence, and he's busy.
Please, could you not just give us a couple of examples?

Joshy · #39 10-09-2003, 03:21 AM

:

Originally posted by Jacob
That murderer should have gone to Hell. It looks like my theory is correct, you can maim, rape and kill thousands of women, men and children but so long as you love God you will go straight to Heaven. Naughty, naughty God...

No that is not correct, when you believe in God and follow his footstep, you would not main, rape and kill people. If you actually do those stuff, you arent a true believer...

I myself is fighting ova if there is a God or not, i stand at neutral view though. If i think there is a God, i remember all those theory and stuff. But if i think there is no God, i remind myself, there Was a person called Jesus that actually was resurrected. I also remind myself of all those miracles that happened.

Facsimile · #40 10-09-2003, 07:04 AM

Sure there was a person called Jesus, but I really doubt the resurrection story. It could be a classic example of Chinese Whispers.

Adder · #41 10-09-2003, 05:16 PM

:

Originally posted by Joshy
God is all knowing and ever-present. This would point to fact that God is immune to time. He knows what will happen at all times, and knows the outcome of all thought and action.

With the simple knowledge you now have of God it will be clear that his very existence contradicts his existence. You see...if God is all-knowing and is aware of the outcome of every action then he is responsible for all evil

I read to here and then stoped, it's too long to analise it all.

As for "God is everywhere, therfore God creates evil" I don't see that link.

I don't beleive in the Christian belief of God, but I believe there must have been something that started Chaos, and from that anything, and everything, can and will happen.

Just cause God can see everything doesn't mean he causes everything.
Think of Earth as a test. Your actions are being watched by a non-interfering moderator. If you fail the test, you got to pergetory for a while. If you end up going too far, you go to hell.

====

Sorry, just saw this:

:

Originally posted by Jacob
It looks like my theory is correct, you can maim, rape and kill thousands of women, men and children but so long as you love God you will go straight to Heaven. Naughty, naughty God...

I belive it was more like "Jesus/God will forgive those who repent their sins"... or something like that.

The idea was more If you are truely sorry, you will be forgiven. That meansyou can't just run around doing anything and expect to get in, you need to feel sorry about murdering/rapeing/etc.
I know when you're dieing, you'd probably be scared $hitless and end up begging for mercy, but you'd need to ask yourself "Do I deserve it?"

I don't know why I'm backing up this religion, but I may as well start a two-sided debate!

Splat · #42 10-09-2003, 05:44 PM

has anyone read anything I've said? Cause most people seem to be repeating me, Adder I've already said all of that.

Oddfan · #43 10-09-2003, 07:15 PM

:

Originally posted by Facsimile
Isn't that funny? The only one here who has definate proof of god's existence, and he's busy.
Please, could you not just give us a couple of examples?

u r sooooo lucky I already have like 2 warnings. oh and facismile how did the bible become written? How were there 333 people who all saw prophicies of the lord before jesus even walked the land? just thought i'd give ya a couple things to think about if u actually answer those and have proof then I happily give u more to think about.

Jacob · #44 10-09-2003, 07:45 PM

:

how did the bible become written? How were there 333 people who all saw prophicies of the lord before jesus even walked the land?

Oddfan, i saw Abe. I met Munch. I spoke to VP Aslik. All this is true. How do you know its not? Where you here? What makes you think that just because they're in a game means they're not real?

Oddfan, i am reading a book right now. Its called 'The KKK's guide to Religion' and its all about exterminating the dirty, white-girl, raping, vermin Blacks and wiping out the AIDS spreading, dress-wearing, lisping Faggots that plague our otherwise decent world. I know its the true guide to Religion cos it says so on the first page, so this means its true. It also says its Gods word. And states Prophecies. Yeh. Its basically the more truthful version of the Bible.

:

No that is not correct, when you believe in God and follow his footstep, you would not main, rape and kill people. If you actually do those stuff, you arent a true believer...

Oh, so this means that i can wipe out all my enemy's, devour millions of babies and rape countless men and women and then convert to Religion, praise the Lord, live the rest of my life abiding by his rule without wanting to do any of my past misdemeanours again and still go to Heaven? Oh, thooper!!

Heaven and Hell were created so that the bad would be punished. It seems as time goes on people are plotting more ways on how they can get to Heaven even though they lead a sinful life. This wasn't how Heaven and Hell were intended. Hell was the deterant. Regardless of if you had God in your Heart or not, if you sinned, you were damned for eternity and a day.

MrBoj · #45 10-09-2003, 11:31 PM

I just think a lot of you need to realize that you all have the same religion. (yes, you can follow 2 religions) most of you follow a creed revolving around stubborn conviction and self indulgent idealization. Idealizing and idolizing are not much different.

ONCE AGAIN people refuse to get past traditional beliefs and their true purpose: to help humanity reach a better understanding of one another. Instead, people turn them around and use religion against each other. "I can't do this, I'll go to hell." "I don't like this religion because it says I will never achieve eternal salvation unless I control my life, or have others control it for me." STOP USING IT AGAINST EACH OTHER! LISTEN! THINK! blind hate is much the same as blind worship. Heaven is sovereignty of the mind.

Facsimile · #46 10-10-2003, 07:15 AM

:

Originally posted by Oddfan
facismile

My name was in your ****ing quote! You only had to look up! You could have copied and pasted it! I would have the decency to spell your name right, you stupid prick.

:

how did the bible become written?

By people with good imaginations.
I can't prove this right, but you can't prove it wrong.

:

How were there 333 people who all saw prophicies of the lord before jesus even walked the land?

Hallucinogens?
Hmm... that certainly is a strange number... it being half the... hmm...

:

just thought i'd give ya a couple things to think about if u actually answer those and have proof then I happily give u more to think about.

I have no proof, but neither do you. You read everything in the bible. You learned the bible was true from: the bible itself.

More examples. Those bored me.

CarboN · #47 10-10-2003, 02:08 PM

Whew, you guys really like to write loong replies.

I have never believed in god.

That is kinda selfish from god if everybody has to praise and love him, and if you don't, he'll punish !!

Adder · #48 10-10-2003, 05:59 PM

:

Originally posted by Facsimile

(How did the bible get written)
By people with good imaginations.
I can't prove this right, but you can't prove it wrong.

Your pretty much right.
The bible was inspired by God, it wasn't written or dictated by Him. I know certain religions take it literaly, but it offers 2 versions of the Adam and Eve story. How can both be right?

The bible might not contain any true facts, other than God created something, and Jesus lived!

I know a devout Cristian who ignores most of the bible, simply because it can't be fully accurate.

As for the "blind hate / blind belief" remark, this is why I don't have a definite religion.
I can't have blind faith! It's a big disadvantage, but I feel I need to see everything for what it is, not for some invisible force that acts on it.
That's why I support Chaos. Everything happens from small changes which spread and cause bigger effects!

Oddfan · #49 10-10-2003, 07:40 PM

facsismile or whatever your name is have u ever looked at a bible it's over a thousand pages. so why would over a dozen people over time write in it just to make an interesting story?

Mac the Janitor · #50 10-10-2003, 09:15 PM

:

Originally posted by Oddfan
facsismile or whatever your name is have u ever looked at a bible it's over a thousand pages. so why would over a dozen people over time write in it just to make an interesting story?

Because it was originally meant just to be some stories with strong morals, like fables...but people took it way too seriously and warped it into a religion. Pretty much like what everybody's done to Lord Of The Rings.

Oddfan · #51 10-10-2003, 09:59 PM

ok since when is lord of the rings a religion.

Zach Roy Wilson · #52 10-10-2003, 10:40 PM

Well, I beleive that both places exist except we as mortals have not yet received full spiritual divinity to see it and only our souls know of it and what is looks like. And that knowledge is partly passed on to our mortal carcasses...

:

Originally posted by Oddfan
I am very dissapointed I am not targeting anyone but all of you who say you are christians don't act like true christians. those of you who are not christians and are trying to say it's not true have no real or good proof I could type millions of things that would prove to you god is real but I don't have time to type that much. i'm just very ashamed of all of you.

You could be a preist Oddfan...you, Abeguy, me, and a few others all beleive inthe teachings of God and Heaven and Hell...

My Holy Sig
____________________________________________________

Oh Lord! Hallelujeh!

Amen
____________________________________________________

I hope other Christians won't take offense of this...

Facsimile · #53 10-11-2003, 12:06 AM

:

Originally posted by Oddfan
facsismile or whatever your name

You are a thick headed, dog raping moron.

I second Mac's answer.

Oddfan · #54 10-11-2003, 10:24 AM

I think your insults do not help and are just to hide the fact you don't know what else to say facismile.

Oddfan · #55 10-11-2003, 10:27 AM

I think your insults do not help and are just to hide the fact you don't know what else to say facismile.
also J.R.R tolkien was a christian and he had alot of time so he made up a new world (middle Earth) and the series the lord of the rings he wrote as a analagy of the bible.

Hobo · #56 10-11-2003, 10:28 AM

:

Originally posted by Oddfan
facismile.

I'd hide in a Nuclear Bunker and Say some Prayers before Facsimile gets back...

Adder · #57 10-11-2003, 11:56 AM

I have to agree, Hobo!

This will be my finnal post here as it seems to have changed into a flaming match between Oddfan and (*scrolls down to check spelling*) Facsimile.

Oddfan: Don't reply to insults, report them instead. As for how to spell people's names, if you scroll down on the NEW POST screen you can see it along with their past posts.

Facsimile: Don't be insulted just cause someone misspells your name. If you don't like it, then tell them. But don't say they're "dog raping morons" jsut casue they make a simple mistake!

Oddfan · #58 10-11-2003, 05:24 PM

good advice Adder this is my last post as well I have nothing more to say to you uh.....lemme check......facsimile.

Strike Witch · #59 10-12-2003, 12:19 AM

I reckon Christianity is a cult. Some moneymaking losers wrote the bible(no capital!) and found some weak willed people to recruit and to get money from.

Heheh, watch out oddfan, not even god will save you when Facismile comes back!!!

Say hi to the Twisting Nether for me!

-Ghosty

Mac the Janitor · #60 10-12-2003, 01:24 AM

:

Originally posted by Ghost
I reckon Christianity is a cult. Some moneymaking losers wrote the bible(no capital!) and found some weak willed people to recruit and to get money from.

Actually, no, you're just dumb...it was written a way long time ago, I doubt they were forming moneymaking strategies back then...