Missing Facets of Mudosian Society

[Danny]

Okay, I've been sleeping badly recently, and one thing I think about to help send me to sleep is the structure of Mudosian Industrial Society. I don't think much about the Natives, since that is the less interesting side of Oddworld, as it is the bit that does not parody Earth. Anyway, while I was thinking about this, I noticed that certain key parts of Mudosian Society were missing so far. I am not claiming an oversight on OWI's part, I am merely speculating on what has not yet been revealed.

First, my analysis of Mudos's Social Structure:

Upper Class
Khanzumerz: These are Mudos's Aristocrats, who have enough moolah that they do not need to work, but simply Consume...

Middle Classes
Chroniclers: Oddworld's Beaurocrats - the Lawyers, Bankers, Taxmen... The Sharks, basically...
Glukkons: The Businessmen. Although all of the Middle-Class Mudosians are Businessmen of some sort, the Glukkons are the ones who run the Industries that could be sorted into Primary, Secondary, or Tertiary...
Vykkers: Mudos's Academics. The Scientists, Doctors, Researchers. All working for Profit, of course...

Working Classes
Sligs: Sligs seem to take on a lot of roles in Mudos, mostly in the Military or in Security, but we have also seen the Newscaster Slig and several sligs in minor Administrative positions. I have tentatively put them in as general Upper-Working-Class-Lower-Middle-Class-typer people...
Mudokons: These also cross over out of the Working Classes, but the opposite way to the Sligs - since most of the Muds are unpaid slave labour, they do not even reach Working Class, for the most part. 'Slave Class' would probably be more appropriate... Anyway, these take on the most menial or dangerous tasks, that even Sligs wouldn't touch...

Looking at this, I can see several large holes that OWI have yet to fill:

Police
We have seen no real Emergency Services so far, but they probably exist, in case Glukkons get injured or robbed or something… I think the Ambulance Service is probably taken care of by the Vykkers [for a price, of course], and the Fire Service is not really [no offence intended to Firemen] a really vital part of Society. The Police, however, must be thought about. I have some ideas, but I would like to hear others’ first…

Government
While it is generally believed that the Queens control Mudosian Society, I find this unlikely, at least of the Queens we’ve seen so far. One of my reasons for believing this is that I heard from a fairly reliable source (I think it was either Max or Pilot) that Maggie could be in trouble with the Chroniclers. In a typical Autocratic society, it would be extremely difficult for the Autocrat to get into legal difficulties…
I [i] do believe that the Corporations [e.g. the Magog Cartel, the Vykkers Conglomerate] control the Government, but I just don’t think they are the Government. My main query is as to the nature of this ‘puppet’ government. Does it take the form of a Puppet Dictator, controlled by the Corporations (by moolah or threats)? Is it a façade of Democracy, where the candidates are all in the pay of one or more Corporations? The overall effect would be the same, but the image of government would be different. Thoughts, anyone?

Farming
This may not be ‘missing’ as such, as it is likely that the Glukkons run the Farms as they would run any Industry. If this is so, they probably use all kinds of artificial pesticides and fertilisers, pack the food animals in tiny battery cages, and treat the mudokon slaves who plough the fields really nastily… However, since farming can be considerably less harmful to the environment than fuel production or any of the other Magog-led Industries, Lorne may well have it run by Muds, or maybe a new species. Anyone like to speculate?

Church
I know the Mudokons are the ‘spiritual’ ones, but I am talking here about the real Fundamentalists. I, personally, think Lorne would have to be mad to ignore the opportunity for total send-up provided by the Televangelists… After all, they are hypocritical profitmongers who would fit perfectly into Lorne’s Mudosian Cities…

So, people, any thoughts on those four areas of Mudosian Society? I will post my own ideas later, but I want to hear yours first…

[Steve]

in rupture farms it seemed like they only ate meat(unless you count the crust for pies and stuff like that). so mabey the agriculture is pure meat (theoreticly they could make crust out of powdered exoskelitan).

[Oddsville]

I find what you wrote Rettick to be very interesting. But I also think there should be a civilian class, kinda like the Kanzumers but instead they just work for thier money. They are like us, they go on vacations, go to the supermarket, etc.

Well, waddaya think?

[Danny]

There already are. The Glukkons, Vykkers, Sligs, and, to a certain extent, the Mudokons all fit the description you just laid down... Don't you see? Everyone on Oddworld is "like us"!

[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Rettick ]

[Oddsville]

Yeah, but the Mudokons and Sligs aren't really respected, and the Glukkons well all they do is work. What I ment was a part of sociaty that is...whats the word...respected. Like you go to work and actually have a house of your own. Mudokons,Sligs, and Glukkons (I would guess?) all probably sleep and live in there work facilatys. Sorry, Rettick I know that this kinda implys to what you where saying before but I just...I have no idea what Im talking about.

[oddguy 999]

I dont think that some of the 'missing' areas that you have mentioned are in fact missing...

It dosn't matter if Mudos dosent seem to have any form of goverment, Rather it could easly be run by the laws of natural justice in a huge 'free for all' with only the strongest suvivering. The closest things to goverments that Mudos probly has is the compeating companys/cartels/speaices of Mudos/Oddworld. And while they fight eachother just like war lords they also pay, house and feed their slaves and emploies... You must remember that goverments as we know them are a new idea and have been offten in the past unnessesary. Like comunist systems, or Monickies (sp?). I think it is closest to the Middle Ages in Europe with compeating Lords and Kings.

Exept on Oddworld the Queens ultimently will get the say on what to do because they are the only ones who can pass on the genes to new generations. And therefore pass on comon genes amongst her children so its almost like the children are having their own genes past on. In fact the siblings are more incommon this way then they would be if they where a sexxal speacies and had their own children (at least in bees). This is imortant because it is the desire of all life to pass on as many of their own traits as possible (thats the logic to supper speaices).

Also each company/cartel/speaices would probly provide its own internal services for its emploies like its sercrity force of sligs and some medical suplies for eachother to use in the lower ranks and Intern Aberlence officers with Vykker doctors for the higher ranks.

Farmming on Oddworld is probily considered the precuerment of food, so the probly just rape the natural enviroment of its resorces weather it be plant or animal even though in most casses farmming is easyer. But also since on Oddworld most of their meat bassed food stuffs, which seem to make up most if not all of their diets, seam to have come from carniverus supper speaices it may be easyer to just catch them like what Rapture Farms did with Scrabs and Paramites. So Sligs could do that like in AO.



[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: oddguy 999 ]

[Monkey-Man2000]

Sligs and Interns should be Worker Class. Then there should be the Slave Class and in this class would be Mudokons and Kintos.

[Kroenig the Glukkon]

Well in all of the character profiles it says that the glukkons that run factories and such are a worker class? so maybe the Khanzumerz are maybe other castes of species we've already seen?


--Gen Grak

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Kroenig the Glukkon ]

[Danny]

Originally posted by Oddsville:
Yeah, but the Mudokons and Sligs aren't really respected, and the Glukkons well all they do is work. What I ment was a part of sociaty that is...whats the word...respected. Like you go to work and actually have a house of your own. Mudokons,Sligs, and Glukkons (I would guess?) all probably sleep and live in there work facilatys. Sorry, Rettick I know that this kinda implys to what you where saying before but I just...I have no idea what Im talking about.

I don't mean to be rude, but I strongly doubt that the Glukkons just work. And I think that many of the Glukks, Sligs, and Mudokons do have their own accomodation, even if it's in the form of dormitories or flats. In fact, to be on the safe side, shall we just assume I disagree with more or less everything you said in that post?

Oddguy: I understand roughly what you're saying about Governments, but I still think they would have some form of Nominal Government, even if things are effectively run by the Corporations. As for the Queens totally running things; Sam and Skillya clearly have little overall power, and Maggie doesn't seem to be the ruler, since she can still get into Legal or Finacial difficulties with the Chroniclers. She may control more-or-less everything behind the scenes, but some kind of higher authority must exist in order to be able to confer that authority onto the Chroniclers. One more point: saying "companies/cartels/species" is wrong, since Species on Oddworld are in no way analagous to the Companies.

Monkeyman: Damn, forgot about Interns and Kintos! Ah well, just whack them in where you said, then...

Kroenig: "Worker-Class" is not the same as "Working-Class". "Worker-Class" is a biological distinction between different castes of the same species. "Working-Class" is a Socail distinction between different levels of society. We already know what the Khanzumerz are [although I have made a bit of an assumption], and they are NOT another caste of Glukkons...

[•[cyrus]•]

Well it's cool and all but, why would we want oddworld like that?

You would'nt want Oddworld and all of it's inhabitants to become like US. savages beyond reconing. Yes, our vivid imaginations have acomplished many things in technology, but go to New York and tell me what technology has brought.

Evan though Oddworld is sorta like that without technology, what about the natives(Mudokons), they are peacful beings with great powers and I like';em like that.

Oh and yes Industrialized facilities and other on Oddworld are cool, in their own Oddworld culture.


Mudokon101...

[oddguy 999]

But Oddwoorld dosn't need a goverment, And it is so screwed up that it can't possibly have a government because even the worst systems of governments would have stablised it by now!
You have to remember that the intier Oddworld Quintology is bassed in Mudos, So it is like Mudos is their intier world. If you look at our intier world you will see that we have no centeral governing body and that only a hand full of people at any time have been pulling all the strings, And they always use fear and money which equals power. If you where to replace 'a hand full of people' with 'a hand full Queens' our world is just like Oddworld.

[Cloverfield]

Ultimately, the continent of Mudos, where the Quintology takes place, is run by females. We have just not revealed them in our games, yet. Munch's Oddysee will reveal the Mudokon Queen, who's name is Sam. It will also start to reveal Maggie, the Glukkon Queen.

According to this quote from Lorne Lanning (this was from an interview with Oddworld-Web and Oddworldian in October 2000), females do run Mudos. It does seem like the queens are the "government" of Mudos.

Abe Babe...

[Danny]

Originally posted by oddguy 999:
But Oddwoorld dosn't need a goverment, And it is so screwed up that it can't possibly have a government because even the worst systems of governments would have stablised it by now!
You have to remember that the intier Oddworld Quintology is bassed in Mudos, So it is like Mudos is their intier world. If you look at our intier world you will see that we have no centeral governing body and that only a hand full of people at any time have been pulling all the strings, And they always use fear and money which equals power. If you where to replace 'a hand full of people' with 'a hand full Queens' our world is just like Oddworld.

Actually, the entire Quintology is not necessarily set in Mudos. Lorne has said that they will explore all the corners of Oddworld... And Mudos is not "like the whole world", since it is only about the size of Nigeria; It is a Country, not a World.

Kristen: I know Lorne said this, but I don't think he was referring to the Government, he was referring to things in general. For example, there is nothing to stop a woman becoming Prime Minister [indeed, it has happened], but many would still claim that the world is run by men... I expect the same is true of Oddworld...

Besides, by my theory, the Queens do control Mudos. The only difference is that they do this via some kind of puppet government. One point I have only just thought of: The Queens do not rule Oddworld. Sam and Skillya are clearly subordinate to Maggie, and Maggie is clearly subordinate to someone else. If it is a Queen who directly rules Mudos, it is likely to be the Khanzumer Queen. But like I say, I don't think he meant that the Queens formed the government, just that they controlled everything.

[abe22]

Originally posted by Rettick:
Fire Service is not really a really vital part of Society.

What if a glukkon drops his cigar and there is no sligs around we can't have them burning to death.

[Danny]

What I meant was that, although Firemen are very important practically, they are not very important socially, since it doesn't make any difference who the fireman are, since the end result is the same...

I just had a funny idea... Maybe the firemen could be like Gansters, running a Protection Racket by setting fire to the houses of people they don't like, then demanding money for putting it out again...

[abe22]

Yeah I see now well anyway about the police
I think police would be the sligs since they are security for the glukkons factory and they do have guns.

[MrBoj]

dan, you always come up with these thought-provoking topics. the Social Structure of Oddworld. Well, the Khanzumers are rich beyond recognition, but how did they come that way? The Glukkons/Vykkers/ Chroniclers are equivalent to an evil, bourgeoisie class. They care only about their own needs and nothing else, except maybe those of the Khanzumers.

The whole Mudos society (assuming that it may be different elswhere on Oddworld) is an industrial dictatorship, with the matriarchs as the head of the government. There are hints of socialism with the worker uprisings (mudokons) as well as capitalism(Khanzumers/Glukkons, and to an extent the muds)

YOu know, I think the police force is thew Sligs. The "short-arm" of the law, if you will. They say "freeze!" They have slogs at their disposal, they are the police force, the foot soldiers, the guys who control the slaves.

The Mudokon natives society can be compared to a Native American Indian or some form of African/Australian aborigine tribal society. They worship nature and treat it accordingly.

[Danny]

Sligs... Police Force... Yeah, you're right, it makes sense...

[sodd]

I think you gots it all wrong buddy!

Farming is replaced by factory process... Scrabs\paramites are caught and killed..
Meeps are farmed by Mudos..

Mudos ain't working class--they're a class all their own.. for althought they work, it isn't like they need to, or want to, or choose to.. They are only poor from a Glukkon's perspective.. to themselves they are rich...

Gluk's are high high class--
not in Lulu's case.. But, consumers are middle class people.. I'm a consumer..
Consumers also must work to consume.. and thus are also working class citizens..
The rich who inherit money, are up there with Gluks...

[Danny]

Originally posted by sodd:
[b]I think you gots it all wrong buddy!

Farming is replaced by factory process... Scrabs\paramites are caught and killed...(1)
Meeps are farmed by Mudos...(2)

Mudos ain't working class--they're a class all their own.. for althought they work, it isn't like they need to, or want to, or choose to.. They are only poor from a Glukkon's perspective.. to themselves they are rich...(3)

Gluk's are high high class--
not in Lulu's case.. But, consumers are middle class people.. I'm a consumer..
Consumers also must work to consume.. and thus are also working class citizens..
The rich who inherit money, are up there with Gluks...(4)

1. No. Farming was what replaced the old "Hunter-Gatherer" ways in the first place...

2. I'm talking about the society of the Cities and Tamed lands, so Farming done by Natives doesn't count.

3. See above. I am talking about the Industrial part of Mudos, and am therefore talking about Enslaved Mudokons, not Natives.

4. No, the rich who inherit money are the Khanzumerz, the Glukkons are Middle Class, and work their way up the Corporate ladder to get their money... Which isn't accomplished by family, but by ones own ability to backstab, cheat, and bribe your way to the top...

[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Rettick ]

[sodd]

Haha man..

It's not even worth arguing about..

You're an oddworld equivilant of a trekky--
nobody cares..

But, one last comment, I wouldn't consider an enslaved race a working class.....
I don't know why but it just isn't right.
And--you didn't specify that you meant farming as in "Tamed lands" cities etc..

And--consumers make up the MIDDLE class of our society.. Khanzumers or whatever, where the hell do you think their name derives from? CONSUMERS.. MIDDLE class!

[Danny]

Originally posted by sodd:
Haha man..

It's not even worth arguing about..(1)

You're an oddworld equivilant of a trekky--
nobody cares..(2)

But, one last comment, I wouldn't consider an enslaved race a working class.....(3)
I don't know why but it just isn't right.
And--you didn't specify that you meant farming as in "Tamed lands" cities etc..(4)

And--consumers make up the MIDDLE class of our society.. Khanzumers or whatever, where the hell do you think their name derives from? CONSUMERS.. MIDDLE class!(5)

1. Not that you're going to let that stop you, apparrently...

2. There's no need to get confrontational. You're thinking of Max there, anyway, I'm just using this as an outlet for my creativity...

3. Neither would I. That's why I said that in my first post...

4. I did specify that I was talking about "Mudosian Industrial Society"...

5. Consumers make up all levels of society. Of course I knew where the word "Khanzumerz" came from, it's obvious. But we already know that the Khanzumerz do not work, and that they just consume. This is much closer to the position of the Aristocracy than Middle Classes.

Sodd, I've defended you when you've been overly confrontational in the past, so don't start, okay? Discussing things is fine, but there is no need to get personal over something as trivial as this...

[moy85]

u know it would be funny if there was a glukkon detective picture this sligs wearing blue and one glukkon wearing black with a top hat like glukstar but black with a cigar in his mouth that would look cool

[kleeng]

posted by sodd, You're an oddworld equivilant of a trekky--
nobody cares..

What is wrong with being a trekky? (I micht add that personaly I'm not a trekky but an AVP fan wich is just as exteme)
I care and I dont feel like noboddy, and I dont think anyone else who posted about Rettick's theorys does.

[SeaRex]

Hmmm...I'm thinking that the Khanzumahs are the government...

[Danny]

Originally posted by moy85:
u know it would be funny if there was a glukkon detective picture this sligs wearing blue and one glukkon wearing black with a top hat like glukstar but black with a cigar in his mouth that would look cool

Sorry for being stupid, but why Blue?

[MrBoj]

SeaRex, why do youthink the Khanzumers would be government? I view them as people(or whatever the hell they are) who have more money than is good for them. They pay the Glukkons to entertain themselves anyway possible.

[sodd]

Rettick--
man am I sorry..


I've just taken the time to REALLY read your messages--
and I think, although they do have small flaws (because some things are hard to catagorize) they're clever.
You obviously have a great deal of knowledge on society and classes..

Extract the main purpose of my past messages, and delete the aggresive "equivilant of a trekky, nobody cares" type stuff from your memory..

I hate to excuse my behavior, but this is not a fib.. I've just been really down lately and I'm afraid you got in the draft of my venting...

sorry again -(|\|)-

[Majic]

i odnt know really, but i mean theres gotta be more species on oddworld besides muds vykkers glucks sligs and gabbits. i mean that are civilized and crap. but really how do people like gluckons and muds and sligs take vacations. i cant exactly imagine a gluckon wearing a warped pair of swimming trunks strechted out on a sandy beach. now that i mentioned it, there doesnt really seem to be mention of beaches as far as i know of. deserts, forests, cities, hilly plains.... im suprised there hasnt been mention of beaches although we know there area seas. i dont know, maybe theres under water society thats been setup or something... highly fantisy but intruiging sp.......

[moy85]

well cops or police man usually wear blue but being oddworld i guess it doen't have to be blue could be something else