Democrats I don't get them!

paramiteabe · #1 03-02-2004, 03:08 AM

I just don't get the Democrats and I can tell you why. This past week the United States sent in troops to Hati to bring order and peace to that nation because they are at civil war. Well the Democrats support this cause. But yet when we go into Iraq to do the same thing to bring order and peace to the nation wether or not we found weapons of mass destruction mind you, you guys start attacking.
So what if we dident find the weapons but there were terrorist camps and Saddam supported alcida. Doesn't that justify us being there?

I don't get it. So if a country doesn't have weapons of mass destruction its ok to come in and bring peace to them and resolve a conflict? But its not ok to go into a country like Iraq that doesnt have weapons and do the same thing? What, do you hate the middle east? I know all of you guys are democrat supporters Im not infact I am undecided.

I don't want to support democrats because they don't make a bit of common sense to me.

oddguy · #2 03-02-2004, 05:53 AM

I have some conservative and liberal views, but I don't keep my political vision defined to one party. I'm one of those guys that can realize when Republicans or Democrats are acting stupid and laugh at them both! But seriously, it sickens me to see someone confined to a party, support an idiot just because he's in the same club.

-oddguy

Lucipher · #3 03-02-2004, 06:35 AM

I think it is strange that the Americans go to Haiti when it has nothing to do with them whatsoever, and I HATE DEMOCRATS! JUST LIKE OUR C***PY PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR! IF I EVER SAW HIM I WOULD KICK SEVEN COLOURS OF S**T OUT OF HIS BIG EARED FACE! I HATE THAT MOTHERF**CKER HE WAS BORN OUT OF HIS MOTHER'S A**S.

Jacob · #4 03-02-2004, 06:45 AM

I don't have a particular Political persuasion. Most of my views are Liberal though, but thats only because all Right wing views i've heard are utter shite and shouldn't even dare be contemplated.

PA - the reason why people didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq is because the war was illegal. It was a waste of US and UK Soldiers lives. Not only that, but at one point the Americans killed more allies than the Iraqi's did.

Another thing is that your Government lied to us. Bush stated there were WMD's to get the go ahead for war, sadly he also fed Tony Blair false infomation to get him onside [thats my theory anyway].

Thankfully the US will be having their elections again soon [i think anyway] and Bush will get kicked out, only to be replaced with a Democrat, hopefully anyway. After reading what most of the Republicans views are on Homosexuality, i definatly hope a Democrat gets in. Then the US may start to evolve in their views towards such issues and become more like England...a civilised country where the religious and bigots are outweighed by more liberal minded people.

Lucipher, why exactly do you hate Tony Blair?

I've just found out that Ian Mckellen [Magneto from the X films] is Gay. Did anybody else know this? I always thought there was something intriguing about him, but i didn't know he was Gay...

Majic · #5 03-02-2004, 07:40 AM

We also brought about the democracy in haiti, you know, and established the guy there back when Clinton was in charge. Hence, it's more or less our duty to clean up after he became corrupt and went to Zaire. Or whatever it's called now.

oddguy · #6 03-02-2004, 09:39 AM

:

I've just found out that Ian Mckellen [Magneto from the X films] is Gay. Did anybody else know this? I always thought there was something intriguing about him, but i didn't know he was Gay...

Yeah, I knew that. He got knighted because of his acomplishments and strong belief in gay rights.

You see, I have no problem with gay people...I just don't agree with the lifestyle. Sir Ian Mckellen is awesome and has one of the coolest voices I think I've ever heard.

-oddguy

Esus · #7 03-02-2004, 10:53 AM

:

I HATE DEMOCRATS! JUST LIKE OUR C***PY PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR! IF I EVER SAW HIM I WOULD KICK SEVEN COLOURS OF S**T OUT OF HIS BIG EARED FACE! I HATE THAT MOTHERF**CKER HE WAS BORN OUT OF HIS MOTHER'S A**S.

Ignorance... pure ignorance...
I see when you begin to vote, you'll be voting for someone "for the hell of it" ignoring everything they've done, or merely going with the compeltely self-centred option. Or perhaps that which your peers forced you to do through ridiculing you and the like.
I suppose you're also one of the people who wonder why the government don't listen to "kids". Your post is a perfect example of why.

:

Magneto from the X films

and gandalf from TLOTR

Big_Bro_Slig222 · #8 03-02-2004, 11:04 AM

Ian Mckellen's gay?

SeaRex · #9 03-02-2004, 11:12 AM

:

Bush will get kicked out, only to be replaced with a Democrat

Hahaha... that's a good one. I've got a sinking feeling that Bush is gonna' get reelected like a bitch.

The Demo candidates are better than Bush... but they still need some improvement. Gay civil union is a decent start, but the whole thing reeks of a half-assed attempt not to offend anyone. Think about it. Civil Union conjures up images of "seperate but equal," and we all know how well that worked with African-Americans...

Jacob · #10 03-02-2004, 11:14 AM

To be honest i don't get why people are so concerned about specific family issues anymore. If the parents are good people then who cares whether they're female and male, male and male or female and female? I can't stand people who say "If i died, i'd rather have my children die aswell then have them brought up by Fags.".

I don't see why certain Governments aren't allowing Gay adoption. Can anybody shed light on this for me?

Ian Mckellen mentioned in some countries you can be put to death for coming out, now, i'd understand if they were coming out and saying "Hey, i'm a Paedophilic child-murderer. Whooo!! Look at me!!" but they're not. They're being truthful with themselves. I just find it quite...quite perculiar really.

'lifestyle.'

Can someone define this for me. I've never understood it when people go "I don't mind Gays, i just don't like/support/agree with their lifestyle.".

Statikk HDM · #11 03-02-2004, 11:22 AM

The difference between Haiti and Iraq is enormous. We went to Haiti to control a leader we put into office from killing more people. It was very straightforward. No war games, no lies and trumped up charges/fear-mongering, and no war profiteering. It was U.N. supported as well as approved by the vast majority of the world, unlike our "war" in Iraq. This military cleanup job will not cost almost 200 billion dollars, over 10,000 civilian casualties, and nearly 700 military casualties, unlike the "war in Iraq.
There is no massive mobilization to Haiti, unlike the humongous mobilization for the "war" in Iraq.
P.S.: You might wonder why I'm putting the word war in quotation marks when I refer to the "war" in Iraq. This "war" is an unecessary squandering of life and money and was waged on false pretenses for the benefits of a select and rich minority. I refuse to call it a war because in my mind it is foolhardy and illegitimate.

SeaRex · #12 03-02-2004, 11:25 AM

:

I don't see why certain Governments aren't allowing Gay adoption. Can anybody shed light on this for me?

Oh, you didn't get the memo? If you're gay and adopt, your kids will grow up gay, just like how all kids raised by straight people end up straight...

Oh... wait...

:

Can someone define this for me. I've never understood it when people go "I don't mind Gays, i just don't like/support/agree with their lifestyle.".

I don't mind when people say that. Of course, I'm straight, so I guess I really wouldn't mind if people said that.

Anywho, I think the reason is that there is always going to be a difference between "tolerance" and "acceptance." (Did anyone see that one South Park episode? Tunnel of Tolerance... funny stuff.) Everyone has the right to disagree with a "lifestyle." I mean, it's a hella lot better to disagree than discriminate.

Jacob · #13 03-02-2004, 12:45 PM

Yeh, but whats the definition of 'lifestyle'.

On the Southpark topic, i've recently gotten back into Southpark after shying away from it and claiming its humour is immature and foolish, relying on shocks etc. But the newer episodes i'm seeing are rather amusing. The last one i saw was the one about LOTR with the porn tape. Tokens reaction made me giggle, as well as Butters.

Butters rocks. The Supervillain episode with him in was highly titilating.

oddguy · #14 03-02-2004, 01:27 PM

Dude, I love South Park! Oh, and Butters is my favorite all the way. I also like Josh, the TP master.

:

(Did anyone see that one South Park episode? Tunnel of Tolerance... funny stuff.)

That's the one when Mr. Garison tries to get fired and shoves Lemiwinks up Mr. Slave's arse...right?

-oddguy

MojoMan220 · #15 03-02-2004, 04:01 PM

Too many people in America are falling into George W. Bush's web of lies and half-truths. The Iraq "invasion" as I like to call it, was not about liberating the Iraqis, it was about a president who wanted a war the moment he had his chance. If you've been watching the news over the past months, you might have noticed a quite amusing trend in the Bush administration's words on WoMD in Iraq. They began by saying they know for sure there are WoMD are in Iraq. Months later (after the war) they said they believe WoMD "programs" are in Iraq. Today they aknowledge they found nothing and never expect to find anything, but now the Iraqis are liberated, yay! Yes, it is good Iraqis have more freedoms, but the point is the U.S. government lied to the nation, and went to war with only a gut feeling. I think it might have been a better idea to wait and sort through their shifty intellegence before blowing stuff up. And as for you comparing it with the current crisis in Hati is beyond my reckoning.

By the way, if democrats don't make any sense, and republicans do, then how do you explain George W. Bush?

paramiteabe · #16 03-03-2004, 02:58 AM

Look wether or not Iraq had weapons of mass destruction is not the point in this matter. The point I am trying to explan here that nobody seems to really understand is where do you stand up and put your foot down and say enough is enough and handle the situation before it gets worse? The point here is the fine line between right and wrong. Now I may not agree with some the issues of my Presidant but I support my Presidant for a number of reasons because when he says that we are going to do something he is going to do it. And nothing changes the fact Saddam was indeed an enamy. He is not going to sit around and wait like Clinton did.

He is against Gay Marriage and all power to him. Marrage is defined as the legal union between a man and a woman. I don't hate gays but I don't agree with them. But if you want to be gay go right ahead but you won't see me take up the art of being gay because for me I think its un natural.

I don't like the false claims the gov puts out but the Democrats are the same way maybe even worse since they want more taxes to increase Home owners expenses on school levys. I am telling you Democrats will raise taxes and you will not be able live in your area because your property tax is so high you won't be able to afford it. Its already happening in my state in my cities. They are raiseing school levy taxes and home owners are leaveing left and right because they can't live here anymore.

I see the democrats saying the war was unjust and theres no weapons of mass destruction. And the war is on oil! So what, he was a terror state thats why we went to war with them. I sense a bit ignorance in the democratic party.

You can go on and on and on here on weapons of mass destruction and oil and lies in trying to proove me wrong but what it comes down to is what is right and what is wrong. And Saddam was wrong. He had terrorist camps and he put millions of innocent people to death. Infact we don't even know the true number of people that were killed by him. Now ask me this is that right?

Thats what I don't get about the Democrats. And I hate to say it but the Democrats are dwindleing and pretty soon there won't be any Democrats at the rate they are going because minorities are moveing up the corpret ladder and becomeing Republican.

Jacob · #17 03-03-2004, 09:32 AM

As valid as your point is PA, many won't believe that until Bush actually starts liberating other countries...that don't have Oil or other uses to them.

'He is against Gay Marriage and all power to him. Marrage is defined as the legal union between a man and a woman.'

I can see your point here, but do we really need something else that'll inevidently cause seperations between the Homosexual and Heterosexual community? In America the Hetero's are at the Homo's throats anyway, all Queer couples want to do is marry and show their love for one another and they're not allowed to do that. Can't you all just grow up and say "Fine, have your Queer marriages.". That'll solve it.

'But if you want to be gay'

I've pointed this out several times, PA. We don't choose. Many Gay people don't want to be Gay, if they had a choice they'd be straight. But they don't. We're born Gay, and saying we choose won't help anybodies situation, infact, it just makes the people who say we choose look like arrogant thicktards.

'Democrats at the rate they are going because minorities are moveing up the corpret ladder and becomeing Republican.'

Well, prepare for your country to get even more f*cked up then. It's already mocked for being one of the biggest Bible bashing countries. Lets just add 'narrowmined bigots' to the ever growing list and see how happy all you Republicans will be then.

Statikk HDM · #18 03-03-2004, 10:30 AM

Well, I'm not completely sold on the idea that homosexuality is completely by nature rather than by choice but this topic is about Haiti, not homosexuality, so lets get back on topic. We went in Hait because Aristide was overthrown before and we put him back in power. He is a largely incompetent leader and is suspected to have ties to drug trafficking. Not only that, he is the leader of a vastly corrupt and violent police force and military. Guy Phillipe used to be a police officer for Aristide but was driven out because he was suspected of having been the kingpin of a cocaine cartel. Phillipe got a couple hundred of people angry about the way the government was being led and attacked numerous cities. Even though the force was small and poorly armed it rolled over the almost non-exsistant Haitian military.
Basically, we're in there because we got Aristide democratically elected(yeah right, just like all the other Lavalas leaders were "elected." This is a peace-keeping mission and also a face-saving diversionary tactic akin to "wagging the dog." People are pissed off about the "war" in Iraq so Bush would rather have peoples attentions focused on a relatively legitimate Marine police-like task. It sure as hell isn't because Haiti is rich or sitting on a large sea of oil. Haiti is one of poorest countries and is lacking in many resources.

MojoMan220 · #19 03-03-2004, 11:35 AM

It was not our bussiness to be in Iraq. So many other nations were against us being there, but we went anyway... why? Because we're the friggin' U.S. and we can do whatever the hell we want! I'm sick of this bullying our country is doing. The war had no reason from start to finish. Now onto America. Under Bush the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I don't see where you get the idea the democrats are going to make things worse economically for the average working class. The Bush tax cuts only benefits the richest 1% of the population. The democrats are the people looking out for your well-being. Bush doesn't care for health care or the environment. Did you see the state of the union? Bush went on and on about fear, we should all be afraid. What happens when people are afraid? They consume, they want protection. FEAR, it is one of America's biggest problems and Bush is "pro-fear". Appearently terrorists have formed a massive army and they are marching towards our country as we speak! Yes, terrorism is a problem, but not a big part of our every day lives. This brings me to Mars... He believes we should spend billions of our nations money to go to mars! How is that good for our economy? Also, Bush's view on gay marriage is disturbing. Who the hell is it hurting, what business does he have telling them what they can and cannot do with their lives. This is HATE and DISCRIMINATION he is fueling. Freedoms are being taken away left and right, and people need to start getting involved. You have fallen under the spell of the Bush Administration, and I doubt you can be helped.

Jacob · #20 03-03-2004, 02:15 PM

'You have fallen under the spell of the Bush Administration, and I doubt you can be helped.'

But the main question is: Do they choose to foul and violate their beings in such ways? Or are they born like that? People like PA are just confused about who they support, they can snap out of it. You can live a true, better life PA, you just have to break away from your confusion. Your not pro-Bush, your confused!! I know people who were once pro-Bush but aren't anymore, it is because they were confused and they saw the light. The Democrats love us all and they want to help you, but you are shunning them away and neglecting their help. You will see, when all this ends, you will be judged, and you will weep. Weep when you find out how much the Dems loved you...before being cast away from their light of truth.

Gosh, preaching IS fun!!

paramiteabe · #21 03-03-2004, 03:00 PM

Boy do I feel that sarcasim!

Of course the Democrats want to help yeah your right. They also want to take your money and force you to move out.

Its very intresting how after 911 everybody supported Bush on the war against terror. Now its like "we take that back!"

Wake up call the war on terror isn't over and it won't be over for a real long time. So what do you want us to do pull out of Iraq and have them too strike at us on our soil. Because thats what they will do like what Alcida did? How in the world do you justify that?

And don't tell me you are born gay because that is the most craziest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. Born gay please thats like saying "well I was born as a gay and I know I look like a human but I am not human I am a gay! And how can you say people are being descrimative against gays? That doesn't make any sense eather thats like saying "Well I am going to merry a head of lettice and if you don't let me your being raciest!" So your telling me that Gays are now a different race of people? Wow!

Face it you were born streight like all of us and one point in your life you decided that you prefer to be homosexual where you have every bit of right to be and decided to live the gay life. Then comes this new thing nowadays where all of a sudden everybody who is gay starts getting into this huge movement claiming that being homosexual is a natural thing we were born with. When you know deep down inside what the real truth is. You wanted to be gay and you simply became gay. Thats the truth.

Majic · #22 03-03-2004, 03:18 PM

I don't get how homosexuality can possibly be choice. You can just click on a switch that says "Oh, I'll be turned on by my own sex instead of the oppisite." That's ridiculous. And the whole mass of grouping democrats as an entire group... A bit stereotypical. Not to mention that the stone set legal definition of a marrige isn't between a man and a women, otherwise Bush would be marching in front of the dumbass parade trying to amend the constitution, of all things.

Oh, and might I add that excluding religion, I've yet to here a founded argument to hold up against why gays should be deprived the right of marrige. "It's wrong." "It's unnatural." "It's unethical." Who's to stare into a group of people, and decide what's best for them? How can people, without any regret, state that a step should be taken backwards and actaully take away something from people, and that's it's that's how it should be? God damn, why are people so timid and petty as to make such a big deal out of something that DOESN'T EVEN AFFECT THEM.

paramiteabe · #23 03-03-2004, 03:29 PM

Explane how its natural! I am waiting to here how being gay is natural.

Its a choice to like the same sex because your not born gay. Are you born with the same organs as every other human being out there? I don't see the natural difference they all have the same parts as any other human does. Its a feeling and its also a sickness.

There is no such thing as a homosexual gene. Its all feeling.

Majic · #24 03-03-2004, 03:37 PM

Physical/emotional attraction towards a fellow human. For the majority of people, a major point in life is to find a mate. Nothing is wrong with two people having a strong emotional bond. Love, even if struck between a "different" couple, cannot be considered unnatural.

paramiteabe · #25 03-03-2004, 03:46 PM

You just described a feeling. Which is indeed natural but its only natural when its between a man and a woman. Its a feeling thats what it is which is natural. So you can't literally be born gay it becomes a feeling that is suppose to be towards a woman but not and that is where it becomes a sickness. Its takeing a natural concept and turning it into a sickness. Its turning into something that it shouldn't be and was never ment to be abused. That is a sickness.

Majic · #26 03-03-2004, 04:07 PM

A sickness?

Alrighty then, lets call this one a draw. The whole issue of same sex relations seems to be the one spot where no one will change opinion, until some further event in their life. Just like people who welcome tradition and loath change. The same arguments are simply going to be used over and over again. "Unnatural!" "Basic human rights!" "It's wrong!" "Love in a different form!"

I personally get quite tired, especially knowing that restating my opinions over and over again with different wording to counter your views will, in the end, change nothing much except for our post counts and dispositions towards each other on a majoratively decided thing. And yes, I know that isn't a word.

Though really, I do find your terming of "sickness" to be a bit disturbing

As well as the fact most people made no move against gay-marrige before the whole California/Bush stuff came up. If it is something so wrong, how come it wasn't brought up before? Becuase it was a small issue unaffecting the general public, so I don't see why such a major decision should be rushed now.

paramiteabe · #27 03-03-2004, 04:17 PM

Well its all cool mann I mean its only a stupid debate with no ending I am just giveing my own opinion on issues that are really important and its healthy. Makes for a good debate ya know? I guess you can say that the term Right and wrong for this day and age is no longer a black and white issue. Its more gray. Everybody has their own mixed opinions and its all cool for a good healthy debate. And thats all this topic is about. Its mainly about almost all the issues we face nowadays.

MojoMan220 · #28 03-03-2004, 04:53 PM

How can you, as a heterosexual debate that being gay is a choice? You should not be able to marry a head of lettuce, this is about human beings! When women got the right to vote, it did not lead to chimps voting. Your logic is so confusing. Shouldn't all people get the same rights as every one else. Times are changing, why step backwards and repeat history. It was once illegal for black people to marry white people. A lot of whites thought it was sick and unatural, can you decide for them?

paramiteabe · #29 03-03-2004, 05:26 PM

Because.... we are ultimately going to repeat history.

The lettuce thing was an analogy that describes how it can be foolish for someone who is gay to think that its raciest if someone else doesn't allow it.

Jacob · #30 03-04-2004, 02:03 AM

I was watching this thing last night called 'Celebrities Exposed: Coming out' and it had all these Celebrities who had either been outted or come out [George Michael, Michael Barrymore, Ellen Degenres, Will Young etc]. And they began comparing England to the US and everybody who was on the show ridiculed America for being stuck in the 1950's. George Michaels career was completly destroyed when he was outted when caught cottaging. They also spoke about some Hollywood actors who i can't remember who are Gay, but had to hide it because of the narrowmindedness you yanks have. My point is, why would these people choose to be Gay? It would ultimatly destroy their career. It doesn't make sense for somebody to choose to be Gay [especially in America] when they're going to have a really hard time when it comes to their life when you get the simpletards Queer-bashing just because they're different.

'"well I was born as a gay and I know I look like a human but I am not human I am a gay!'

Lol, what? We're still humans...

'And how can you say people are being descrimative against gays?'

Well, when somebody allows a majority group to have something and then says a specific minority group can't have it, due to something they cannot help, this is called being discriminitive.

'So your telling me that Gays are now a different race of people? Wow!'

I have no idea where you got that from. I said we don't choose...you go on a complete and utter tangent and say we're suddenly a different race.

'Face it you were born streight like all of us and one point in your life you decided that you prefer to be homosexual'

Ahh, okay. So, why exactly would we prefare this? Care to share some advantages being a Homosexual has over being a Heterosexual?

'Then comes this new thing nowadays where all of a sudden everybody who is gay starts getting into this huge movement claiming that being homosexual is a natural thing we were born with.'

Well yes, that's because everybody [aside from middle-America it seems] knows that nothing is wrong with being Gay and that it cannot be helped.

Anyway, i'm going to conclude this now, because if it gets to long nobody will read -

Conclusion
People say we choose to be Gay, but that doesn't explain some of the traits that go with Homosexuality. The feminine voice. The feminine walk. The feminine mannerisms. Sure, these can all be acts, but then what about the Homosexuals who have feminine physiques and bone structures? These are natural. These are by no means "acted" out. They were born with the feminine bone structure and thus it points to the fact that they were born Gay. I have said this time and time again...Homosexuality has been proven to be a natural occurance that happens when the Foetus, whilst developing into a male, is starved of the natural testosterone it should recieve. This makes the brain more female than male/vice versa, and thus leads the person being attracted to the opposite sex.

PA, you do have a valid point, but at the end of the day your point doesn't make sense. Nobody will willingly choose to be Gay, just like nobody would willingly choose to be a Paedophile...but they're about and why? *Because they can't help what they are.

* I'm not condoning the act of Paedophilia here people, i think that they should be cured and if there is no cure, locked up with the key thrown away.

'Sexuality: Robinson & Manning (2000) found that the 2D:4D ratio was lower in homosexual males indicating that homosexual males have been exposed to high levels of androgens before birth.'

If you want to do your own research PA, type in 'hypothalamus' and 'Homosexuality'. This should give you atleast some sites that have Scientific evidence that we do not choose.

Last night on that show thing i watched a woman said "If we just stopped worrying about what we and everybody else was, we'd all be alot happier sexually and in relationships" and i couldn't agree more.