Facts, Opinions, and Statistics (FYI Leon)

Danny · #1 03-05-2002, 09:40 PM

This has come up in two topics simultaneously, so rather than continue to pollute those topics with this meaningless and irrelevant argument, I've decided to clear it up here.

fact (n)
1: a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case"
2: a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts"
3: an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell"
4: a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"

opinion (n)
1: a personal belief that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?"
2: a belief or sentiment shared by most people; the voice of the people; "he asked for a poll of public opinion"
3: a message expressing a belief about something; "his opinions appeared frequently on the editorial page"

statistics (n)
a branch of applied mathematics concerned with the collection and interpretation of quantitative data and the use of probability theory to estimate population parameters

Okay, so that last one wasn't very helpful. But still, surely you can see that Facts and Opinions are totally different things, and that Facts can be proven, and Opinions cannot. Statistics are not a separate concept, they are simply a collection of Facts or Opinions. They are NOT a device for turning one into another...

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #2 03-05-2002, 09:48 PM

This is spam.

Danny · #3 03-05-2002, 09:50 PM

No it isn't. It contains pertinent information. What you just said was spam. So is this, now. Thanks a lot, you've started off a wave of spam in a non-spam topic. I hope you're satisfied...

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #4 03-05-2002, 09:51 PM

This will be quite helpful for some, Dan... It seems that the difference between opinions/facts/statistics has been attacking several topics. Hopefully this will cram it into certain confused people's heads...

How is it spam, Pink?

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #5 03-05-2002, 09:54 PM

:

Originally posted by Danny
No it isn't. It contains pertinent information. What you just said was spam. So is this, now. Thanks a lot, you've started off a wave of spam in a non-spam topic. I hope you're satisfied...

Oh yeah I apologize. I thought it was spam because you can look those words up in the dictionary.

geez Dan why are you getting so mad about it?

Surfacing · #6 03-06-2002, 05:07 AM

I get the felling i'm responsable for you putting up this topic, well i do know the difference's i just hav'nt been displaying that very well have i.

:

they are simply a collection of Facts or Opinions.

Egsactly it does show some forms of facts!!!!!

ODDBODD · #7 03-06-2002, 07:52 AM

:

Originally posted by Danny
No it isn't. It contains pertinent information. What you just said was spam. So is this, now. Thanks a lot, you've started off a wave of spam in a non-spam topic. I hope you're satisfied...

sorry but easily pissed off people and clowns do not match.

Gluk Schmuck · #8 03-06-2002, 01:31 PM

:

Originally posted by Surfacing
Egsactly it does show some forms of facts!!!!!

It can show facts.

ODDBODD, the quote you used doesn't indicate that Dan is easily 'pissed off' and neither does anything in this topic.

SeaRex · #9 03-06-2002, 06:35 PM

Christ! Would you guys drop it already? Some ppl think Slipknot is really great; some ppl obviously dislike the band.

I'm sure that everyone here at least grasps the idea of "facts, opinions, and statistics." So this topic is now just insulting to Surfacing.

... Whoever is going to contradict this... fire away.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #10 03-06-2002, 07:36 PM

:

Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck

It can show facts.

ODDBODD, the quote you used doesn't indicate that Dan is easily 'pissed off' and neither does anything in this topic.

It sounded like he was pissed off for no reason.

Surfacing · #11 03-06-2002, 07:52 PM

:

Originally posted by SeaRex
Christ! Would you guys drop it already? Some ppl think Slipknot is really great; some ppl obviously dislike the band.

I'm sure that everyone here at least grasps the idea of "facts, opinions, and statistics." So this topic is now just insulting to Surfacing.

... Whoever is going to contradict this... fire away.

You know i think Danny is is trying to find a new rival, Pinky! your not Fulfilling your dutys as a rival to Danny, he now seeks a new rival i think it's me.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #12 03-06-2002, 08:20 PM

:

Originally posted by Surfacing

You know i think Danny is is trying to find a new rival, Pinky! your not Fulfilling your dutys as a rival to Danny, he now seeks a new rival i think it's me.

*puts hands up*

hey, don't look at me. Dan started it yo. Just ignore him surf. I had to learn that in the clone topic.

also Dan I said "this is spam" that was not indeed spam.

Surfacing · #13 03-06-2002, 08:23 PM

:

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR

*puts hands up*

hey, don't look at me. Dan started it yo. Just ignore him surf. I had to learn that in the clone topic.

also Dan I said "this is spam" that was not indeed spam.

Ignore him? why would i want to do that? i like argueing with him sometimes he can make some good points, also Are you black or is that your new york accient?

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #14 03-06-2002, 08:27 PM

:

Originally posted by Surfacing

Ignore him? why would i want to do that? i like argueing with him sometimes he can make some good points, also Are you black or is that your new york accient?

Um yeah I'm black. Also, do you always think when some one says "yo" then they are black? ( this is not an argumentive question I'm just curious)

Also, I mean to ignore him if he gets pretty bang and stuff.

Besides, why do you think Dan wants you as a rival?

Surfacing · #15 03-07-2002, 01:23 AM

:

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR

Um yeah I'm black. Also, do you always think when some one says "yo" then they are black? ( this is not an argumentive question I'm just curious)

Also, I mean to ignore him if he gets pretty bang and stuff.

Besides, why do you think Dan wants you as a rival?

Well did'nt black people invinte the word yo? I also asked you if you were black cause you live in NY everyone there says yo (correct me if i'm wrong) Yeah like i said your not fulfilling your duties as a rival to dan i mean you 2 are rivals right?

Doug · #16 03-07-2002, 02:17 AM

:

Originally posted by Surfacing

Well did'nt black people invinte the word yo?

I live near Philadelphia, where EVERYBODY says "yo!" Around here it just means "hey!"

Haven't you seen any of the Rocky movies, Surfacing? "Yo, Adrian!"

Gluk Schmuck · #17 03-07-2002, 12:34 PM

:

Originally posted by Surfacing
i mean you 2 are rivals right?

Yes, Dan and Pinky are rivals...
This only occurs on the night of a full moon in a universe where Dan is a Fundamentalist Faschist!

</irony>

Danny · #18 03-07-2002, 07:31 PM

:

Originally posted by Surfacing
Egsactly it does show some forms of facts!!!!!

Statistics can show facts, but only if they contain facts. A survey of Facts would show Facts. A survey of Opinions would show Opinions. Now, a survey of what bands people prefer would be a survey of Opinions, not of Facts. Ok?

:

Originally posted by various people:
[Stuff about me being Argumentative and looking for a new rival in Leon.

I can be argumentative, I don't deny that, but nobody should take it personally: I don't argue against people, I argue against what they say. Leon thinks I have been picking on him recently, but I haven't, it's just that he has been saying a lot of things I disagree with lately. That's all.

As for looking for a new rival, I think you seem to have misunderstood the word "rival". Rivals are people who are trying to occupy the same niche in their society, environment, or social group. Rivals tend to be very similar in many ways, which is why I could never be a rival to either Quorisha or Leon, as we have very little in common.

Besides, I am not seeking to make an enemy of Leon or anyone else. It just frustrates me when I am having an argument, and we just go around in circles...

Statikk HDM · #19 03-07-2002, 07:51 PM

Danny who the hell is quorisha or Leon. i think leon is surfacing. Please use only screen names, thanks.

Danny · #20 03-07-2002, 08:26 PM

:

Originally posted by Statikk HDM
Danny who the hell is quorisha or Leon. i think leon is surfacing. Please use only screen names, thanks.

Quorisha is Pinky and Leon is Surfacing. And no, I refer to people by name. It's more personal... Besides, I always hated being called Rettick...

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #21 03-07-2002, 09:04 PM

:

Originally posted by Danny
Quorisha is Pinky and Leon is Surfacing. And no, I refer to people by name. It's more personal... Besides, I always hated being called Rettick...

No offense but I think you don't listen. I don't want to be called my real name!

Also Dan is rivals with me. I'm not rivals with him I'm not even banging that way.

:

This only occurs on the night of a full moon in a universe where Dan is a Fundamentalist Faschist!

What? What do you mean? He's a fundamentalist faschist?

Surfacing · #22 03-07-2002, 11:07 PM

:

[B]Statistics can show facts, but only if they contain facts. A survey of Facts would show Facts. A survey of Opinions would show Opinions. Now, a survey of what bands people prefer would be a survey of Opinions, not of Facts. Ok?

Prove it, or give me an example of a survey.

:

I can be argumentative, I don't deny that, but nobody should take it personally: I don't argue against people, I argue against what they say. Leon thinks I have been picking on him recently, but I haven't, it's just that he has been saying a lot of things I disagree with lately. That's all.

I thought you were picking on me, but then i relized that's who you are an argumentative type, so it's cool if you want to argue with me once in a while.

P.S

you can keep calling me leon, just aslong as you stick to it, and don't call me anything else.

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #23 03-07-2002, 11:16 PM

Survey of opinions: Surveying to see if more people like male bands, or female bands. Surveying to see what people's favorite music genre is. Surveying for favorite films. Favorite book, etc...

Survey of facts: Surveying to see what the hardest rock in the world is. Getting rocks, and scraping different objects across them. This would show what is the hardest rock on the earth... Another survey of facts would be to see what the longest book in the world is... Get all the books in the world, and see which one (in the same font and paper size) which is the largest... It would prove what the longest book in the world is.

Do you see the difference now? An opinion is something that can be collected, but not proved. Facts can be proven, and are totally true. Now, if more people like male bands... than this is a fact. But it is not a fact that male bands are better, because they are opinions...

Surfacing · #24 03-07-2002, 11:21 PM

:

Originally posted by Melvin:squeeking paramite
Survey of opinions: Surveying to see if more people like male bands, or female bands. Surveying to see what people's favorite music genre is. Surveying for favorite films. Favorite book, etc...

Survey of facts: Surveying to see what the hardest rock in the world is. Getting rocks, and scraping different objects across them. This would show what is the hardest rock on the earth... Another survey of facts would be to see what the longest book in the world is... Get all the books in the world, and see which one (in the same font and paper size) which is the largest... It would prove what the longest book in the world is.

Do you see the difference now? An opinion is something that can be collected, but not proved. Facts can be proven, and are totally true. Now, if more people like male bands... than this is a fact. But it is not a fact that male bands are better, because they are opinions...

I do know the difference's but, i just get them mixed up, but i think finding out if males are better than females when it comes to bands can be turned into a survey, every person in the world says there opinions, that should be enough for other people to understand that YES! male bands are far more superior to female bands, i know it's just opinions but i think opinions and statistics are enough to make it real enough for people to understand that male bands are better than female bands.

Lampion · #25 03-08-2002, 12:44 AM

If one made a survey in the the 12th century Europe, asking if people believe that the Sun moves around the Earth ot not, probably almost 100% of the people would answer: "Yes, of course the Sun moves around the Earth".

The survey woudn't prove that the Sun moves around the Earth. It would only prove that everybody's opinion agreed that the Sun moves around the Earth.

Of course we all know the truth...

Surfacing · #26 03-08-2002, 02:36 AM

Ok... Well most people believe in god, how do we know if he really exist? Are you saying god is based on opinion aswell? %95 of the world populations worships god or gods, are they all wrong aswell>?

Lampion · #27 03-08-2002, 04:15 AM

Let me put this in other words:

If one makes a survey in the the 21th century Europe, asking if people believe that the Earth moves around the Sun or not, probably almost 100% of the people will answer: "Yes, of course the Earth moves around the Sun".

The survey will not prove that the Earth moves around the Sun. It will only prove that everybody's opinion agreed that the Earth moves around the Sun.

If the Earth actually moves around the Sun, or not, it cannot be proven by that particular survey.

:

Ok... Well most people believe in god, how do we know if he really exist?

I can't see the relevance of this observation to this topic.

:

Are you saying god is based on opinion aswell?

No, I'm not. But if you are asking, I could say that yes, God is based on opinion to most of the people. Few of them have real background experience to support the existence of God.

:

%95 of the world populations worships god or gods, are they all wrong aswell>?

I don't think so, but that's my own personal opinion. It has nothing to do with the number of people that worship God or gods.

As a God believer I consider myself, I can assure you that my particular beliefs are based on opinions, not facts.

Now, if male bands are better than female bands, it's a subjective opinion. You cannot claim that as a fact, the most you can do is to say that "it's everybody's opinion that male bands are better than female bands"

Danny · #28 03-08-2002, 07:30 PM

I take my hat off to you, Lampi. You are so much better at explaining things than me...

[BTW, what is your real name? I may as well try to be consistent...]

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #29 03-08-2002, 08:19 PM

:

Originally posted by Danny
[BTW, what is your real name? I may as well try to be consistent...]

He probably explained it in the name topic.

Danny · #30 03-08-2002, 08:34 PM

:

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
He probably explained it in the name topic.

Yeah, but asking him personally is so much easier than going to scavenge... (That's what Scott's here for...

)