The Tigers Are Out In Full Force

Statikk HDM · #1 05-31-2006, 02:36 PM

Anyone following this Haditha thing? A friggin' war crime is what it is. In Iraq American forces opened fire on a house and killed many people, women, children, and even a 74 year old wheelchair-bound grandparent. Dig hard enough and you can find horror accounts of firing into civilian masses. There are numerous accounts of mosque killings, most notably at Al-Askari. Hmm, where have we seen this type of behavior before? Could it have been...
VIETNAM?!?!?!?!

Havoc · #2 05-31-2006, 10:27 PM

This is shocking because...

Okay that was harsh. But seriously, I'm not realy shocked by this.

T-nex · #3 05-31-2006, 11:14 PM

Meh.... There's no real thing anyone can do about this. Most people dont care, and are too weak to stop these things :-/

Hmm war sux, but I've stopped caring. But it is shocking to know that there are people in this world who are capable of doing such horrofying things. But it's not only the Amarican army to blame.

Havoc · #4 06-01-2006, 12:29 AM

It makes me wonder why that was done. I mean, soldiers won't empty a clip on a random house for no reason, will they?
Then again, America does have a history of war crimes and thinking they can do everything without punishment. So I'm not shocked about anything they do anymore.

Facsimile · #5 06-01-2006, 01:04 AM

I thought this topic was about the return of Havoc...

T-nex · #6 06-01-2006, 01:10 AM

Havoc was never gone...

Havoc · #7 06-01-2006, 02:50 AM

I was 'a little less active'. I'm on whenever I have some time

.

I thought this topic was about tigers in some way. Apparently it's not. Ah well

.

Statikk HDM · #8 06-01-2006, 04:01 AM

It is. Sort of. The Toledo Blade did a pulitzer prize winning expose of the war crimes/crimes against humanity of a military squad called "Tiger Force."

Jacob · #9 06-01-2006, 10:29 AM

This is yet another thing the Media shouldn't have reported until we're well clear of Iraq.

Seriously, the country wouldn't be half as f*cked up as it is if we had a Media blackout.

Okay, sure, deal with the war crimes, but only after everything's sorted.

Ugh.

Mutual Friend · #10 06-01-2006, 10:47 AM

Yes, because leaving the public in the dark to the activities of our goverments, while they spend away millions of our money will breed a very healthy kind of war senario I'M SURE. Heh, ridiculous.

Statikk HDM · #11 06-02-2006, 11:05 AM

Hmm, not surprised that Jacob is going with the Knife in the Back argument
Seig Heil!
Yeah, its my fault for criticising people for firing at women, children, grandparents, and packed mosques. If only I'd let them commit crimes against humanity without reprisal the U.S. would "win" this war, whatever the Hell winning is in this cluster**** of a situation.

Jacob · #12 06-02-2006, 01:55 PM

"Yes, because leaving the public in the dark to the activities of our goverments, while they spend away millions of our money will breed a very healthy kind of war senario I'M SURE. Heh, ridiculous."

Oh, but publicising such acts whilst our Troops are still in said country is intelligent?

I never said we shouldn't deal with the perpetrators. We should. But can't we deal with them without blasting everything about such incidents all over the Media? What does it achieve? More chaos, that's what. The Iraqi's see it and they kick off, with good reason.

Ideally, what we should be doing is having a Media Black-out.
If such crimes come to light, the Government should make an independant enquiry.
If the enquiry shows up proof that the Soldiers are Bad Bunnies, then they should be dealt with accordingly.

Though, i don't see why exactly we, as the public, have a right to know. But going on the basis that we do, we should definitely be told after the War has ended. Do you really think it helps matters to publish such atrocities whilst we're still in the country?

Out of interest - why should we, and the Iraqi's, be told of what badness is happening in their country whilst we're still in the country? Do you not think that's a stupid thing to do, as it breeds hatred and discontent?

Mutual Friend · #13 06-02-2006, 02:08 PM

With regard to the truth causing hatred/discontent/whatever - I fundamentally believe that ignorance is NOT bliss, you seemingly think differently.

The rest of your post about our 'rights' etc is pure, naive drivel.

Statikk HDM · #14 06-02-2006, 02:35 PM

Jacob, are you trying to tell me that by making this public the Iraqis will hate the Coalition forces?
NEWSFLASH: THEY KNEW.
Why do you think that nearly 80 percent of the poeple want the U.S. out of the nation? Shit like this. War crimes and bombing and abduction and torture and chemical warfare(we used white phosphorous). More than enough reasons. How are people supposed to stop this if there is a media blackout? How will these people be tried if there is a media blackout? And rest assured while there may be a media blackout darker than Satan's ass in America what is stopping independent news agencies in Iraq and elsewhere from reporting it. This will just outrage people even more.
"In Alshaqi a war crime is being investigated. The military will not comment and the U.S. media is forbidden from discussing it."

Jacob · #15 06-02-2006, 03:33 PM

"Jacob, are you trying to tell me that by making this public the Iraqis will hate the Coalition forces?
NEWSFLASH: THEY KNEW."

Yes. Because it was reported. Surely the only Iraqi's who should've known were the ones who witnessed/were involved in it. The rest found out from News sources.

"Why do you think that nearly 80 percent of the poeple want the U.S. out of the nation?"

As of late i've heard loads of random figures bounded around - from 80% are anti-coalition to 70% are pro-coalition and thankful Saddam has gone. I don't really care for the figures anymore.

"How are people supposed to stop this if there is a media blackout? How will these people be tried if there is a media blackout?"

Just because there's a Media Blackout doesn't mean the Government(s) cannot get the info.

Besides, when i said 'Media Blackout', i was refering to a temporary one. Okay, if we must know, fine, tell us, but why tell us whilst we're still in the country, it doesn't help.

"And rest assured while there may be a media blackout darker than Satan's ass in America what is stopping independent news agencies in Iraq and elsewhere from reporting it"

As naive as this may sound, i think the Governments should just explain to all the press that they can have all the stories of awfulness they want - but tell them it'd be best to publish such information come the leave of Iraq, 'cos it puts the Soldiers lives in danger otherwise.

I mean, look what happened in [insert random Muslim country here] when it was said that the Military were making Muslims use the Koran for toilet paper - there was a MASSIVE riot on an idiotic scale and innocents were killed. ...over something that turned out to be false anyway.

So to say "Oh, we can't not have a Media black out! We must know such things!" is stupid, because what's more important - a person's life or our knowledge about something we can't change and we probably won't change.

All it gives us is something to talk about and go "Oh, how awful! Somebody should do something!" for a moment or two before we get on with our lives, whilst the Soldiers in Iraq have to deal with the consequences of some random twat unloading a few rounds into Mr. Innocent-Brown 2006.

"I fundamentally believe that ignorance is NOT bliss, you seemingly think differently."

I never said it was. I merely said i'm sure the Newspapers can wait before putting Soldiers' lives on the line for a few extra sales.

used:) · #16 06-02-2006, 03:45 PM

Statikk creating an anti-American army thread, how surprising.

It's the media's job to give citizen's the news. I would rather have it plastered everywhere ina crude manner than not get any news at all.

Jacob · #17 06-02-2006, 03:53 PM

"It's the media's job to give citizen's the news. I would rather have it plastered everywhere ina crude manner than not get any news at all."

Even at the expense of Soldier's lives?

...and you would get the News, just at a later date.

used:) · #18 06-02-2006, 03:55 PM

At the expense of soldier's lives? Where are you going at, Charlie?

Mutual Friend · #19 06-02-2006, 04:10 PM

Jacob:

If soldiers go around and commit war crimes then they have no one other than themselves to blame for the consequences. It isn’t up to our governments and media to offer them a (temporary) white-wash. You start going down the route of suppressing the media in such circumstances and only bad will come of it.

You talk such nonsense - consistently.

***Nate*** · #20 06-02-2006, 10:19 PM

If the media don't report this sort of thing, then nothing will happen. Think about it; what motivation will there be for the military to convict the perpetrators? They'd much prefer to pretend that nothing like that could ever happen.

As for why things like this happens: the US has an army of people who chose to be in the army. People who think that holding a gun and shooting people is a good, fun thing to do. It's inevitable, really.

Jacob · #21 06-03-2006, 04:27 AM

"If soldiers go around and commit war crimes then they have no one other than themselves to blame for the consequences."

Not all Soldiers go around committing war crimes. But you can guarantee that they'll get targetted too, purely for the fact they're with the Coalition and the tossers in the army give the Coalition a bad name.

"People who think that holding a gun and shooting people is a good, fun thing to do."

So, it's nothing to do with wanting to protect their country, then?

Everybody seems to be really anti-Coalition here. The vast majority of the Soldiers are doing what they're supposed to - they're not going around shooting innocents or humiliating prisoners, yet when we see images of Soldiers doing this, it spreads discontent and hatred.

If there was a temporary Media black-out, then chances are we wouldn't have so many Coalition casualties, because people wouldn't read what the Soldiers in the minority did and thus wouldn't go around taking revenge by blowing themselves up near a group of innocent Soldiers.

It's a vicious circle - Innocent Iraqi killed - Iraqi's get revenge by killing Soldiers - Soldiers they kill were the "good kind" (for lack of a better phrase) - So the remaining Soldiers get revenge by killing innocents etc.

If we took the publicity out of the equation, then it'd stop it in it's tracks.

I'm not saying we shouldn't know (though, why we should know what our Soldiers do hasn't been answered yet) or that the Soldiers who commit such acts shouldn't face reprisals. I'm merely saying that to advertise such atrocities only makes matters worse, not better, and since you all seem to be the kind of people who're all "OH MY GOD! WHAT AN AWFUL THING TO HAPPEN! THIS IS TRAGIC!" i'd've thought you'd appreciate that when things get worse - people die. Namely the innocents.

***Nate*** · #22 06-03-2006, 07:04 AM

Somehow I don't think the Iraqis are turning into terrorists because they've been tuning in to CNN. Having someone kill your mother/brother/cousin/friend is enough to do it.

soulstice · #23 06-03-2006, 07:12 AM

Well, I just think that's why we all hate war. Civilians get killed. It goes hand in hand with any war and it's just so unfortunately inevitable...

Jacob · #24 06-03-2006, 07:39 AM

"Somehow I don't think the Iraqis are turning into terrorists because they've been tuning in to CNN. Having someone kill your mother/brother/cousin/friend is enough to do it."

Yes, but what about the ones that aren't related? Y'know, the kind that bitch on about "Our Muslim brothers and sisters are being killed...yadda-yadda-yadda"

They find out from News reports.

Besides, it's one thing to hear about a war atrocity and it's another thing to see it.

It always gets me, though, how when they do bitch on about their Muslim brothers and sisters being killed, they all seemed quite content to just let Saddam go about his daily routine of genocide and putting people into woodchippers feet first.

soulstice · #25 06-03-2006, 10:25 AM

:

Somehow I don't think the Iraqis are turning into terrorists because they've been tuning in to CNN. Having someone kill your mother/brother/cousin/friend is enough to do it.

Two words. Recruitment tape.

Statikk HDM · #26 06-03-2006, 06:46 PM

Like they don't have enough already?
"Here is the largest conventional bomb in the history of warfare being dropped on downtown Baghdad."
"See this little kid? Yeah, "Smart Bombs" acted a little stupid and turned him into a limbless mockery of life."
"These are suspected "terrorists" being stacked on their dead relatives and having vicious, unclean attack dogs sicced on them by women while naked."
Etc, etc.
I'm more worried about exposing the world to these atrocities so the perpetrators are punished and the troops are brought home so shit like this doesn't again. But "we" have to stay so "we" don't "lose".
Yeah, mercenaries, war crimes, and civilian bombings, freedom is on the march! Well, more of a goosestep under a puppet leader, but you get what I'm trying to say.

Jacob · #27 06-04-2006, 03:26 AM

"I'm more worried about exposing the world to these atrocities so the perpetrators are punished and the troops are brought home so shit like this doesn't again. But "we" have to stay so "we" don't "lose"."

So - in that case you'd quite happily massacre 100's of Troops who're only in Iraq because their superiors told them to go?

Don't be a moron, Statikk - are you saying that if it were a choice between the Coalition winning this war or the Muslim insurgents, you'd go with the latter choice because the Coalition have a few bad Apples? Whereas the Iraqi Muslim's are all a bit culturally retarded and crazy anyway?

I may be wrong in this - but i'm sure in World War 2 there was a limit to what the papers could report. Now, if WW2 happened today, and we had a mass of information saying how the British et al where treating the Nazis wrongly, do you think that'd help the cause? Would you defend the Nazis? We're doing the Insurgents propaganda for them - for free.

***Nate*** · #28 06-04-2006, 05:59 AM

*sigh*

My point in my last post is that if bombs were being dropped on your city and soldiers were regularly shooting up the streets, you wouldn't need to watch CNN to see something that would piss you off.

Jacob · #29 06-04-2006, 06:53 AM

"My point in my last post is that if bombs were being dropped on your city and soldiers were regularly shooting up the streets, you wouldn't need to watch CNN to see something that would piss you off."

Yeh. I got your point. My point was - what about the people who don't experience that? But get equally mad when they hear a report on the News about it happening in another city?

Statikk HDM · #30 06-04-2006, 03:07 PM

"Don't be a moron, Statikk - are you saying that if it were a choice between the Coalition winning this war or the Muslim insurgents, you'd go with the latter choice because the Coalition have a few bad Apples? Whereas the Iraqi Muslim's are all a bit culturally retarded and crazy anyway?"
How the hell do you define "win"? We've already captured Saddam and killed his two sons and removed the Baathist party from politics and the military. They have a constitution and elected a president. We've spent hundreds of billions of dollars in aid and on occupation and the situation has went from bad, to worse, to absolutely FUBAR. There is a civil war going on all because we are there. There is nothing else we can do for this country. Why should we throw lives and money down this rathole? So 80 percent of the people can despise America? For mercenaries and coalition forces to commit murder and war crimes in our name? **** that. We've given these people half a trillion dollars and 2500 lives. We've done all we can. Its time for a deadline. 18 months. They have to train 2500 cops and military personnel a month in that time. We do it all the time with police officers and military, and with the coalition and Iraq this should be easy. After that they have to get their shit together BY THEMSELVES. Sure, we'll give them aid, but not to the extent we give now. And there sure as hell won't be 130,000 Americans on the ground, that much I promise you.
"Whereas the Iraqi Muslim's are all a bit culturally retarded and crazy anyway?"
Hey, way to be a racist, out of touch tool! Have a cookie.
"I may be wrong in this - but i'm sure in World War 2 there was a limit to what the papers could report. Now, if WW2 happened today, and we had a mass of information saying how the British et al where treating the Nazis wrongly, do you think that'd help the cause? Would you defend the Nazis? We're doing the Insurgents propaganda for them - for free."
Yeah, and the Japanese were interred. Freedom is what we're fighting for, right? So why should we limit ourselves to not have the inherrent rights given to us by the Bill of Rights? Thats hypocritical, counter-productive, and batshit crazy.