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  #1  
04-15-2008, 03:13 PM
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Political Ideals. *Grenade Topic*

Post, in short, your ideal but still somewhat realistic government. Just post the type, then explain why. I go first maybe lol?


Marxism (Socialism/Communism)

I don't fucking care that it is forced upon the West as the epitomy of evil. I don't. It is good for all the people. I'm against the whole authoritarian thing, but economically, it is perfect or damn near it. The problem is, pure and simple, people. The government (which technically in Marxism shouldn't exist save for a few arbiters.) take ultimate control over everything, turning it into an Orwellian nightmare. Thus, fail. If people weren't stupid, communism=happy. Your turn.
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  #2  
04-15-2008, 04:49 PM
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Anarchism.

Self governing society ftw.
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  #3  
04-15-2008, 06:41 PM
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Marxism's bullshit.

I don't really like any one form of government. I like Canada more than the U.S. though.
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  #4  
04-15-2008, 07:20 PM
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A liberal, pro-education, pro-environment and pro-science government whose entire military is devoted to covert operations busting people out of foreign jails who were convicted, even sentenced to death, for blasphemy, adultery and anything else reminiscent of the aptly named dark-ages.
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  #5  
04-15-2008, 07:24 PM
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A liberal, pro-education, pro-environment and pro-science government whose entire military is devoted to covert operations busting people out of foreign jails who were convicted, even sentenced to death, for blasphemy, adultery and anything else reminiscent of the aptly named dark-ages.
Yes, I do lean towards a very liberal point in social laws. My take is this: What you think is wrong, someone else might believe to be right, so don't make a law prohibiting whatever just because of your personal morals. I just like the Marxist idea of equality. (SOCIALISM) Not the sadly related conservative standpoint.
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  #6  
04-15-2008, 09:22 PM
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It's not law, it's foreign policy.
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  #7  
04-15-2008, 09:32 PM
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I believe in equality for all humans.

And the destruction of all Xenos and Mutants.

FOR THE EMPEROR!
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  #8  
04-16-2008, 02:00 AM
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Statist / Big Government. Although, that is more inclined towards handling public institutions rather than public order.

Alcar...
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  #9  
04-16-2008, 02:40 AM
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Non stupid...

Oh... realistic...
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  #10  
04-16-2008, 04:09 AM
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A liberal, pro-education, pro-environment and pro-science government whose entire military is devoted to covert operations busting people out of foreign jails who were convicted, even sentenced to death, for blasphemy, adultery and anything else reminiscent of the aptly named dark-ages.
No, I meant about the countries that your ideal one was raiding. Or something like that.
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  #11  
04-16-2008, 05:04 AM
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Oh, I thought you were criticising mine.

Did I mention my plans to liberate Zimbabwe on account of its weapons of mass Mugabe?
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  #12  
04-16-2008, 08:52 AM
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What's Snoop Dogg's favourite form of Government?

Facism Ma Nizzle.
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  #13  
04-16-2008, 01:24 PM
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Wow, Anonyman making a political topic, never saw that coming.

Saw it completely unaroused.
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  #14  
04-16-2008, 01:32 PM
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Wow, Anonyman making a political topic, never saw that coming.

Saw it completely unaroused.
Thanks for your contribution to the thread.
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  #15  
04-16-2008, 03:27 PM
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Ok, I'll try and avoid starting any wars.
I was just reading 1984, hey that could work...
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04-16-2008, 05:37 PM
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Ok, I'll try and avoid starting any wars.
I was just reading 1984, hey that could work...

No. No. NO.


That is what we're trying to avoid. That is ultra-conservatism to THE MAX. AND IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE EXCEPT THOSE IN POWER.
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04-16-2008, 06:50 PM
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Note the "..." that's when I'm being sarcastic/ not serious.
And it doesn't even work for the high party members, they admitt to having less off than what they would have pre big brother.
I mean, George Orwell didn't write his last book to show what he'd think would work, he was trying to potray the doom we were heading towards.
But realy, democracy to me seems corrupt, as quite frankly, in countries like Australia there isn't much of a choice, there are only two major parties, and if they both suck, what choice do we have? Often, they're too simular ("Me too"), and they can even create a monoply in a sence.
Also, the four years thing realy sucks, my state had the labour govermnet, which is corrupt and hates the area I live in, but the other leader was just an outright idiot, so we're stuck with this corrupt leader, with hospitals and public transport failing all over the place, and we have to wait another three years for the problem to be solved, and he isn't in any risk of losing his power, so the labour goverment keeps on screwing up the state.
And I don't think I need to even mention George W Bush, I mean, the entire country is in recession, which is effecting the whole world, it's not a direct effect, but people becoming broke is actually common now.
We need a new type of goverment, becuase, like communisium, by theory it works, but in practise, human ambition gets in the way.
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04-16-2008, 07:03 PM
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:
Post, in short, your ideal but still somewhat realistic government. Just post the type, then explain why. I go first maybe lol?


Marxism (Socialism/Communism)

I don't fucking care that it is forced upon the West as the epitomy of evil. I don't. It is good for all the people. I'm against the whole authoritarian thing, but economically, it is perfect or damn near it. The problem is, pure and simple, people. The government (which technically in Marxism shouldn't exist save for a few arbiters.) take ultimate control over everything, turning it into an Orwellian nightmare. Thus, fail. If people weren't stupid, communism=happy. Your turn.
:
It is good for all the people. I'm against the whole authoritarian thing, but economically, it is perfect or damn near it. The problem is, pure and simple, people. The government (which technically in Marxism shouldn't exist save for a few arbiters.) take ultimate control over everything, turning it into an Orwellian nightmare. Thus, fail. If people weren't stupid, communism=happy. Your turn.
:
The government (which technically in Marxism shouldn't exist save for a few arbiters.) take ultimate control over everything, turning it into an Orwellian nightmare.
:
Orwellian nightmare.
If it is an Orwellian NIGHTMARE would I assume he thought that would be ideal? NEIN!
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  #19  
05-23-2008, 11:37 PM
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Some hand-grenade topic this turned out to be.

I guess we should just keep up the capitalizm until something better comes along.

Or the aliens take over and force us to follow their orders. Whatever.
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If we were girls, we could get popular by doing anything:
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But they're recklessly trying to make a slice-of-life anime about us.
Ah, we are high school boys,
the miserable high school boys.

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  #20  
05-23-2008, 11:43 PM
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I would want a Government that deals incredibly harshly with any criminals. Like whipping them, just like the old times.
Not this whole 'you-killed-someone-and-get-let-out-on-parole-ten-years-later' bull-dust.
Its completely crap. No wonder there is crime. True, not as much as there used to be....
Oh, and guns are easier to get, so you can protect your home from lunatics with guns they go to easily.
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  #21  
05-24-2008, 05:12 AM
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"I am an anarchist"... Sid Vicious never dies in my mind. Anarchism... Italian government is a shit... it should last five years, but it often dies before. I hate it. Italian government and anarchy are the same thing.
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  #22  
05-24-2008, 05:15 AM
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No, they really aren't. Anarchism would mean NO government. Just people. Which could never work. Then again, Marxism seems like it'll take a while before people are willing to be equal with everyone as opposed to better than everyone.
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05-24-2008, 05:25 AM
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No, they really aren't. Anarchism would mean NO government. Just people. Which could never work.
I mean that with this government in Italy everyone can do everything he wants... so it's like if there were the anarchy. Believe me, it's the worst thing in a nation like Italy...
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  #24  
05-24-2008, 05:35 AM
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"I am an anarchist"... Sid Vicious never dies in my mind. Anarchism... Italian government is a shit... it should last five years, but it often dies before. I hate it. Italian government and anarchy are the same thing.
Proportional Representation means greater representation by all walks of people but governments usually form coalitions (As nearly no party will ever get more than 50% of the vote and collapse easily because separate parties in the coalition often have disagreements over key issues and leave the alliance, weakening the government to the point that they need to call another general election.

That being said, it's better and fairer than the 'First Past the Post' system we have in Britain whereby a party can get 50% of the vote but only 10% of the seats.

Anarchy is called that for a reason, no matter how much belief you'd like to have in the people they NEED a central government to hold things together, even communism takes this into account. With no government society would quickly devolve into tribal warfare.
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05-24-2008, 05:43 AM
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And that's why communism has always epic failed.

What is needed if a far-left, very liberal global government. We are FAR from achieving that now, but it is possible if people stopped being stuck up cunts. Of course, that will never happen in my lifetime, but a man can dream.
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05-24-2008, 05:49 AM
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And that's why communism has always epic failed.

What is needed if a far-left, very liberal global government. We are FAR from achieving that now, but it is possible if people stopped being stuck up cunts. Of course, that will never happen in my lifetime, but a man can dream.
For a fully functional global government (Which I personally think is a great idea) some sacrifices will have to be made.

These are: Internationalization of the English language, application of western world morals and values onto the international community, dissolution of all undue political and social power held by religious organizations (Bai bai Vatican) and internationalization of one currency.

Some of these contrast most interestingly with what is idealised as a Liberal government.
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  #27  
05-24-2008, 06:19 AM
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Ok, I'll try and avoid starting any wars.
I was just reading 1984, hey that could work...
Welcome to City 17. It's safer here. =P

And personally I agree with what Bullet Magnet said a few posts ago. I'd like to see a government who is intent on protecting the environment while finding out new ways of growing our human culture without much impact. And I mean effective stuff that has to be enforced, not bandwagon stuff like they're doing now. We can't exist without an environment to live in after all. It'd also genuinely care about it's people and do things for the benefit of it's people and it's country rather than to make money.

But of course this idea has many flaws. It's not realistic for one.

There's many other things I'd like my ideal government to do (transport, human rights, etc) but I don't really have the time to put a lot of thought into it now.

EDIT:
And oh yeah, Wings of Fire has a point, too. Internationalization would eliminate most wars except for inevitable internal conflicts - Humans should work together just to simply live instead of work against each other, 'cause living is apparently very fucking difficult even though it shouldn't be. This is one of the things I hate about humanity, but still. People said earlier that the EU prevents the countries within to go to war against each other, and they have a point.

EDIT 2: Yay for skimming posts too quickly. :P You miss stuff.

I also agree with WoF too - I've always thought that religion and politics should be kept separate. People see differently, but most religion was basically invented in ancient times as a way to keep people in line - It was important back then, but today it's not so much. Dying traditions that don't reflect the modern world, should not be allowed to govern or influence our progress today.

I'm not saying that my ideal government should abolish religion altogether though, 'cause for some people it's all they have to live by, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be part of our politics, 'cause that is one of the things that makes religion dangerous in todays world. Look at all the holy wars, for example. Or they're stopping research on embryos 'cause it's "Immoral" according to the Catholic church, and that's just two off the top of my head.
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  #28  
05-24-2008, 06:35 AM
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Actually, WOF, Chinese is a bigger language than English in the current business world. However, if a huge, international language was formed and people just slowly adapted to it, things could work. If people understand the sacrifices and why they must be made, it could splendidly. Secondly, the morals and values don't need to be spread. Just an understanding that murder, rape, theft, and other obvious wrongs are indeed wrong. Other than that, almost everything could be legalized, as the global government should understand people can make their own social decisions. Marijuana legalization, gay marriage, controversial subject matter on television and in books, and things like that should be left legal. Plus, if the global government goes by the fundamentals of Marxism, everyone will have a job, money for extra things, land, utilities, and other essentials because currency will become much less necessary if the global economy went by the "brother of man" idea.
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05-24-2008, 06:55 AM
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A sensible dictatorship. No, not Hitler, not Stalin, not that kind of thing.

I mean, the government/guy in power has total control, but lets everybody more or less get along on their own anyway. Taxes are reshuffled to try and make things easier, ie. the government actually spend the money where it is needed. Higher taxes for higher income could also be altered, so that the ludicrously high earners who get millions upon millions pay the higher tax, but under that everybody pays a lower tax, so only the multi-multi millionaires have the high rate. This would make things easier for the middle and upper middle class, without penalising the working class. It would also protect business.

Also, the working class issue woudl need to be resolved. The policy behidn the Labour party is to help the poor working class, right? Then by definition, there must be a poor working class in the nation, since theyr'e the ones who'll vote Labour. If they are no lnoger poor, they'd vote Conservative. This means that Labour have to make sure there IS a large poor working class so they can always get the vote and get in. The government clearly couldn't be run this way, it would have to not aim to make the poor richer and the rich poorer, but to make everybody rich/reasonably wealthy.

Thus why, though a good idea at heart and in theory, the Communist policy can't work. If you aim to make everybody earn the same income, then nobody will have an incentive for the harder jobs. If a heart surgeon is paid the same as a binman, there is no motivation to become a heart surgeon, so the neccessary areas of the economy will fade away as everybody picks the easy job. Good idea in theory, but regretfully it can't work. There must be a differing pay scheme to provide the motivation for people to go into those required professions. But of course, sportsmen or actors or other non-essential, entertainment professions certainly shouldn't earn the ludicrouslyhigh incomes they do compared to, as I said, doctors or surgeons. Hence why my tax suggestion, or, the government placing a limit on entertainers' earnings to let's say, 4 times the average wage (which, under this system, would be higher than it is now anyway so they'd still be very comfortable. Exceedingly comfortable, in fact, as there'd still be £80-100k a year salaries), and using all those leftover millions to help the economy, such as in national healthcare or education.

Crime is dealt with very harshly- death penalties and such. I am a firm believer that once you become a criminal, if it is one of the severe crimes like murder/attempted murder, assault, theft, rape, abduction etc. you lose human rights as you, by committing a crime, were trying to take away someone else's human rights, so criminals are dealt with severely.

Free speech has to be allowed, but the government can't be allowed to be altered, as vying for power means that politicians are more interested in having power than in doing what's right, so a rota-system government with 1 party prevents power struggles.

Immigration would have to be reduced a little in places like the UK, or cut out completely, since the UK is in a population overload at the moment with immigration. But immigrants would not be treated any differently. However, they would of coruse have to adapt and abide by their new country's laws- no more compensations for different races, EVERYONE is equal, and nobody is more equal than anybody else. This means that Muslims or whatever no longer get special Muslim schools, or Muslim districts, or Islamic-religion based laws, or compensations based on faith- they would be truly treated the same as everybody else, no better or worse. As I'm using the UK as an example, let's continue. Britain would have to be for the British, so immigrants of different faiths would have to adapt to British law. Not lose their faith completely but just adapt to fit in, and no longer have a superiority. Racism by definition isn't insulting a race, it's discrimination, and discrimination can be psotiive (Unfairly in favour) or negative (Unfairly against). Currently, the UK is experiencing positive discrimination towards some immigrant nations- these faiths are given compensation and special treatment over others, thus being over-positively treated. Everybody would have to be treated 100% equal. Don't think I'm being racist or against other faiths. I have Muslim, Sikh, Hindu friends. I'm trying to say that everyone should be treated the same, nobody better than others, and that includes immigrants.

Oh, and finally, benefits. I have to say I'd cut down on them. Obviously there are cases where benefits are neccessary- a disabled single mother in no fit condition for much work who has to look after 4 children ,say. But even then, you'd have to have limits. Disability benefits i have no problem with, but you would have to make sure that the disability is not forged, and that it does DIS-able them. A jammy ankle isn't a disability, for instance. disabilities woudl have to be something that physically prohibits the person from a certain job. THEN the benefit is fine.

Things like unempoyment benefits would have to be re-evaluated. I'd cut WAY down on the money paid out by them, and they would have to be paid only to people actively seeking work whatever the job. peopel who say "Oh I don't fanmc that job" or "I can't do that, i might strain my shoudler" or whatever, or people who just sit around collecting the dole, shouldn't get such benefits. If you actually try to look for a job, then yes, but if not, then no.

Child benefits, another issue. benefits for 1 child, yes. Higher benefits for 2, yes. Higher for 3, yes. Higher for 4, OK, but it's a stretch. Any mroe than 4 children is msot likely due to irresponsibility, so i don't believe benefit payments should keep going up to 10, 12, 15 children. After 4, 1 flat rate. You have too many children, that's your fault, ot the government's or taxpayers'. Oh, and this nonsense about immigrant workers insay, Britain, claimnig benefits to send home to children who live in say, Poland, is ridiculous. That can't be right- it means the tax paying public are paying benefits to people who don't even live in that country. You want to work here, you don't claim benefits for people who don't live here. Hence why immigration wuld have to be radically altered- families of 20, or people with criminal records, can't just be allowed to wander in and claim benefits without getting a job and helping society. Hell, people with criminal records should just not be allowed in full stop. Not fascism, not xenophobia, just preventing unfair positive discrimination.

I'm sure some of you will call me a fascist or right-wing or Nazi for this, but truth is it's not. It's about equality regardless of race, religion, gender, whatever, about logically providing government help, about making sure the government is strong and ttnerested only in the welfare of the people, not in winning the vote, about making sure the nation's money stays in its own nation, about preventing crime and forced taking of human rights, about preventing both negative and positive discrimination, and just generally about running the country logically and fairly.

Like I say, I know there'll be some who flame me and call me xenophobic or a racist, or a fascist or a nazi, but I know I'm not. I may not be articulating what I want to say the right way, but I'm certainly not a believer in fascism. I'm a believer in fair, TRULY fair, and just sensible government. As I say, maybe I've not described it in that way to you, but that's what I'm aiming for.

Kind of the main basis of Marxism, crossed with capitalist free trade and an uncorrputable and unshakeable government . Does that even make sense?
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Last edited by Munch's Master; 05-24-2008 at 06:58 AM..
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05-24-2008, 10:53 AM
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And I'll be your dictator. I'll then throw you to the dogs and do it my own way.
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