Is there other life in the universe afterall?

[Havoc]

Alright! Now we're getting somewhere with all this space exploration. We've found a planet outside our solar system which is guessed to be very much like earth and is quite possibly able to sustain life organisms or maybe even human life all together.

The article:

Astronomers have found the most Earth-like planet outside our Solar System to date, a world which could have water running on its surface.

The planet orbits the faint star Gliese 581, which is 20.5 light-years away in the constellation Libra.

Scientists made the discovery using the Eso 3.6m Telescope in Chile.

They say the benign temperatures on the planet mean any water there could exist in liquid form, and this raises the chances it could also harbour life.

"We have estimated that the mean temperature of this 'super-Earth' lies between 0 and 40 degrees Celsius, and water would thus be liquid," explained Stephane Udry of the Geneva Observatory, lead author of the scientific paper reporting the result.


'Is there life anywhere else?' is a fundamental question we all ask
Alison Boyle
London Science Museum
"Moreover, its radius should be only 1.5 times the Earth's radius, and models predict that the planet should be either rocky - like our Earth - or covered with oceans."

Xavier Delfosse, a member of the team from Grenoble University, added: "Liquid water is critical to life as we know it."

The entire article can be found on: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6589157.stm

Oh and I can't end a post like this without this of course:
If we do find life on that planet, can I be the first to start setting churches on fire?

Havoc

[moxco]

Yeah, I heard that on the news. It's so far away I doubt they could send any type of aircraft to it though.

Havoc, most churches are brick so you'll have to find another method.

[Abeguy]

it already has 3 Starbucks, though...

[used:)]

Coo, coo, but how do they know all of this scientific shit?

[Patrick Vykkers]

Can someone explain to me what the HELL extraterrestrial life has to do with religion? Unless you are aiming to set Raelian churches on fire for some reason.

[Bullet Magnet]

"Earth-like" is a bit of a stretch. Granted, it is the most Earth-like planet that we have found so far, present company notwithstanding, but it is quite unlike Earth. it is five times more massive than Earth, over twice the gravity and orbits a Red Dwarf star, meaning that the radiation it receives is quite different from our own.

On top of that, it must be tidally locked giving its proximity to Gliese 581, so one side is in perpetual day and the other perpetual night. The sun fills most of the sky and the day is as long as the year (though day/night are meaningless there). The slow rotation probably means a diminished magnetosphere, so the surface may be bombarded with the solar and cosmic radiation that Earth is sheilded from.

This does not rule out the possibility of life, but it puts the phrase "Earth-like" into perspective. Though conditions on a tidally locked red dwarf that could sustain life "as we know it" have been been calculated- in fact I have been working with some others online to develop a planet much like this one and its evolutionary history for some time now. It's just too early to say whether or not Gliese 581c has the properties hypothetically deemed necessary. This is one such essay.

Though these conditions are rare and highly unlikely to occur. Then again, so are the conditions of Earth, but statistics shows that they must have arisen somewhere, and several times too. We live on an ideal planet because there was nowhere else we could exist. Plus we (as in living organisms) have adapted to conditions here, as well as adapting the planet for our own needs.

But since it has been established that red dwarfs may be capable of harbouring life, they have become good places to search because there are so many of them nearby, increasing the chances that one will have a planet within the fabled "Goldilocks Zone". Of course, we will never know for sure if there is life there in our lifetimes, barring any MASSIVE breakthrough. The first probes will be unmanned, mark my words, and by the time we have developed the technology to get them there within a reasonable and practical time frame we should also have developed AI to the point of being able to coordinate an investigation and study of the planet. We must then wait the many years for it to arrive, and for the transmissions to get back to use, so no doubt by then we will be long gone.

Coo, coo, but how do they know all of this scientific shit?

There are many techniques, of which none are ever reported in the media, leading millions to ask that very question, most of which won't look for an answer, casting doubt on science. This is just one of the many ways in which the media rapes science.

One of the ways in which we establish what elements and molecules exist lightyears away is Astronomical Spectroscopy.

As for detecting extrasolar planets like Gliese 581c, a few methods include...

[Nate]

Meh. What BM said.

Every few months a report goes out about a new planet being found. I don't know whether this is the media ignoring the science for a good story or the astronomers bending the truth to raise public interest in a dry subject but either way it's all a bit pointless.

[Seargentbig]

Sure, it's a long way away, but everything is. It's 20 light-years away (which is the distance that light travels in a vacuum in 20 years) but that is very close when you consider that the milky way is 80,000 to 100,000 light-years across. The star is practicaly next door. I mean, sure, we wouldn't be able to get there in our lifetime but it is within the reach of humanity as a whole.

[Havoc]

Can someone explain to me what the HELL extraterrestrial life has to do with religion? Unless you are aiming to set Raelian churches on fire for some reason.

I'm not sure if it's actually somewhere in the bible but a lot of religious folks believe that we are the only life in the entire universe because the bible doesn't talk about life on other planets (if god made more peoplez surely he would have told us and blabla). Some churches even have it in their preaching, don't ask me why because it's retarded as hell. But that should answer your question.

Havoc

[Abeguy]

it is five times more massive than Earth

1.5 times the Earth's radius

so even if you double that, it's 3 times the earth's diameter, not 5...

[Bullet Magnet]

More massive. It has five times the Earth's mass.

[Havoc]

How can something that's only 1.5 times as big as something else have 5 times more mass? It's 1.5 times bigger so it has 1.5 times more mass... pay attention in math class dude!

[Abeguy]

personally, I think that BM thinks that professional scientists don't know what they're talking about.

I don't care, I'm going to leave the planet diagnosing to the experts

[Bullet Magnet]

Perhaps this wiki on mass will help, as it seems clear that it is being misunderstood. Mass has nothing to do with size or weight. Mass is measured in grams, pounds, tons etc. Size (and distance) is measured in meters, inches, light years etc. Weight is measured in Newtons.

The mass of planets can be determined through astrometry, the radial velocity method, and when conditions allow: pulsar timing. The radius of a planet can be found via the transit method. [link]

You're also not visualising this correctly, so perhaps you should have payed attention is math class, Havoc! Take a 2x2x2cm cube. It has a volume of 8cm^3. If 1cm^3 has a mass of 1 gram, then the cube's mass is 8g.

If you then double the size of the cube, it becomes 4x4x4cm, but the mass is not doubled because it is increasing in three dimensions, not one. So it now has a mass of 64g. That is a big increase for a mere doubling in size, an increase of 8, or 2^3. Remember, three dimensions!

A sphere is more complicated, though. As you all know , the volume of a sphere is described in the equation:

So scaling it up is more complicated than with a cube.

Besides, you can change the size and mass at a different rate, this alters the density of the object. The planet Saturn is less dense than water.

[Zerox]

I agree with BM, I already know that mass is entirely different. The planet may have types of rock that are more dense or something (parts of Earth contain limestone, which is quite permeable), or a heavier atmosphere, being that the planet is larger, and has a greater gravity to hold more of an atmosphere.

I think that the fact life is out there somewhere is a definitive yes, just not anywhere near us, and by that I mean thousands of galaxies away, more or less. The chances of this planet containing life are probably quite small, and the lifeforms there being anywhere near as advanced as our planet's lifeforms are fairly small, too.

[Munch's Master]

Mass is density. Size is size. For instance, a small lead weight has a far greater mass than a big hot air balloon. So BM's correct.

But nevertheless, if there really is a planet within our reach that could have life on it, it's a huge step forward for our civilisation. If we ever reach it, then it'd be possible to either make contact with alien life, or, if there is no life on it, then colonise another planet. Sure it'd take a great length of time to get there, hundreds if not thousands of years, unless our travel methods greatly improve, but it can be done. And since it should only take a few decades until we have telescopes capable of truly examining the planet's surface, we could actually see alien life in our lifetime.
I know it's still just speculation as to whether it does have even primitive life on it, let alone civlisation, but it has me excited. I've always wanted to see proof of alien life, now we potentially could.

[Patrick Vykkers]

I'm not sure if it's actually somewhere in the bible but a lot of religious folks believe that we are the only life in the entire universe because the bible doesn't talk about life on other planets (if god made more peoplez surely he would have told us and blabla). Some churches even have it in their preaching, don't ask me why because it's retarded as hell. But that should answer your question.

Havoc

In several years of attending a Catholic Church, the word alien or extraterrestrial or even planet has never been uttered. See;http://www.catholicnews.com/data/sto...ns/0506301.htm

But if they are, that is indeed retarded. The Bible doesn't mention black holes, but we know they exist. What the hell has the salvation of humans got to do with extraterrestrials?

[Nate]

But if they are, that is indeed retarded. The Bible doesn't mention black holes, but we know they exist. What the hell has the salvation of humans got to do with extraterrestrials?

The bible doesn't mention potatoes or koalas either but that's not important because they don't effect the narrative. However, the bible does tend to imply that mankind is the centre of creation. If an alien race were discovered, it would draw that into question and religious leaders would have to take a good hard look at the texts to see if they can reinterpret them.

[Bullet Magnet]

It would be a refreshing take. So long as they didn't take the easy, knee-jerk reaction that they are armies of satan.

[ziggy]

I would love it if we found aliens. Pretty unlikely though. But doesn't it seem like aliens would have to exist somewhere?

[Bullet Magnet]

Statistically it seems inevitable. But finding them may be like finding a very exciting needle in several trillion haystacks. When you're blind.

[Mutual Friend]

There are many techniques, of which none are ever reported in the media, leading millions to ask that very question, most of which won't look for an answer, casting doubt on science. This is just one of the many ways in which the media rapes science.

The media doesn't rape science, you melodramatic hussy. People aren't all that interested in science unless there is some tangible and reasonably effective way it is gonna make their lives easier. And even then they don't care how, just when. So, yeah, if the media can make people a bit interested in the progressing discoveries, good on them. I'd hardly expect them to rail off all this detail. For those who want to know, it's there for them.

Aww, ****. I should have just gone along with 'Science rapes science!'

It would be a refreshing take. So long as they didn't take the easy, knee-jerk reaction that they are armies of satan.

...which they most probably would be.

[Patrick Vykkers]

The media is responsible for idiocy like that "10% brain" horse excrement, and the highlighting of New Age kooks, Our Lady of the Order of Conventional Wisdom. And if you want another example of stupidity, in my nation, Sky News is measuring the distance to that aformentioned extrasolar planet in miles.. All but 3 countries in the entire damn world uses the correct system. Pandering to 3 damn countries because they refuse to use measurements that make sense is idiotic.

[Bullet Magnet]

One Portsmouth paper reporting on a long-term tidal cycle that would increase the high tide mark one month was announcing a 7 meter high wave that was going to engulf the port, little realising until the were corrected by those in the know that it would be a mere 7 millimeters.

Not to mention terrible terminology, the reporting of findings not yet verified, meaning quotes of and interviews with scientists offer the most tentative of responses, it's no wonder why the prevalent opinion of science is what it is now.

[Mutual Friend]

People really aren't fussed about science and never have been. So... what has the media done bar be not accurate enough or not detailed enough in reports?

People with Specialist Knowledge always complain about how their Specialist subject is dealt with in the media, in general conversation (well, not complain as such...). That's what you get for knowing a little about something. ZOMG

And I've ignored Pat's Post because it's fairly irrelevant and just serves for him to ramble on about his own little personal irks in life, rather than actually adding anything to a discussion.

Oh, like usual.

[Havoc]

Statistically it seems inevitable. But finding them may be like finding a very exciting needle in several trillion haystacks. When you're blind.

Nuh. All we need is hyperdrive engine technology and be on our way to the far ends of the galaxy. Course we'd first have to find a power source which can handle that...

Havoc

[Munch's Master]

Mutual Friend, may I ask- why would life on another planet "most likely" be the armies of Satan? Here's one for you- suppose it's actually the life on other planets that have got it right, and we're the so-called armies of Satan. That'd turn your world upside down.

Nuh. All we need is hyperdrive engine technology and be on our way to the far ends of the galaxy. Course we'd first have to find a power source which can handle that...

Havoc

Who needs hyperdrives when you can make an Infinite Improbability drive just by working out how hard it is to make then typing it into a computer?

[Patrick Vykkers]

Nuh. All we need is hyperdrive engine technology and be on our way to the far ends of the galaxy. Course we'd first have to find a power source which can handle that...

Havoc

Not to mention violating the laws of physics.

[Havoc]

Or steal ideas from a science fiction show...

Seriously Stargate's should exist... I demand it.

Havoc

[Fortesque13]

Great! Just great! Now people have found another planet that, if by any chance is inhabitable, will be ruined.