Respect and Fairness Issue...

[Dino]

I've noticed recently that respect, tact, and fairness has gone out the window. There is a general contempt for the rules, and the moderators are not honouring their duties. I know they aren't going to like hearing that, but tough shit, because I have every right to make suggestions and note problems prior to making suggestions.

There are people spamming, there are people being needlessly disrespectful of others, and there's me, banned for acts no worse than CheeseOfGlory's day-to-day drivel. The rules don't apply to SOME, they apply to ALL, yet it seems to be the other way round at the moment.

I for one am fed up with seeing "spam" as being this ambiguous grey area, the ambiguity being exploited by moderators to allow them to issue warnings and bans to people they dislike for "spam" and ignore other obvious cases of "spam" without being questioned. There needs to be a hard, solid definition of "spam" to stem this potential for corruption. But also there needs to be an attitude change.

We cannot continue to beat up, ban, warn, or caution those people we dislike for whatever stupid reason. I know a lot about how things go down on forums and I've seen a lot of forums take the long road to failure down this route - the mods and regulars banning and harassing certain members but favouring others. What you end up with is a shitty little cabal of total assholes who think they're better than everyone else - newbies register at their peril.

We need some CLARITY. We're either going to go by the book, or abandon the rules entirely - we cannot carry on, simply using the rules whenever we want to get rid of or spite someone but disregard them for those we favour. The mods got me banned for a week after an all out anti-dino campeign from Hobo and Rich, for "spam" - do we really want a moderator team who gang up on individuals they don't like and ignore the rulebreaking of others simply because they favour them? (I'm sure they'll deny that this is the case)

Let's not have shifting principles and moving goalposts. It's time we got a little respect and tact around here, and handled ourselves maturely and diplomatically. That thread in the W+B forum was a really good example of how things have gone wrong here - spamming, disrespect, tactless comments, disregard for the rules, and moderators not doing their duties properly. This has to stop otherwise the forums are genuinely doomed. We need some moral standards and values that are upheld and adhered to. This is a great community and it pisses me off when I see it going to shit, because I know that it shouldn't be that way.

So, to recap, we need more clarity on how the rules are being enforced, a greater emphasis placed on being respectful and tactful, and no more of this mafia-like behaviour among the moderator team.

Discuss/suggest/etc.

[T-nex]

Well, i get what you mean, and i think it is a bit unfair to pick someone out like that. But personally, i think that you've begun spamming more than usual.
Also the post in Dippy's thread wasn't excusable in any way.

Maybe the mods are after you, but maybe you should stop posting as many pointless posts, at least untill they leave you alone. Almost evryone liked you during your "I'm mr. Nice-guy"-phase, well apart from Hobo, and some still do. But lately you've just come with weird, mean posts, and spam. Of course you've posted meaningfull posts too, but try to lay off the spam.
If you do that, there wont be any reason to give a warning

[Hobo]

I've noticed recently that respect, tact, and fairness has gone out the window. There is a general contempt for the rules, and the moderators are not honouring their duties. I know they aren't going to like hearing that, but tough shit, because I have every right to make suggestions and note problems prior to making suggestions.

There are people spamming, there are people being needlessly disrespectful of others, and there's me, banned for acts no worse than CheeseOfGlory's day-to-day drivel. The rules don't apply to SOME, they apply to ALL, yet it seems to be the other way round at the moment.

I for one am fed up with seeing "spam" as being this ambiguous grey area, the ambiguity being exploited by moderators to allow them to issue warnings and bans to people they dislike for "spam" and ignore other obvious cases of "spam" without being questioned. There needs to be a hard, solid definition of "spam" to stem this potential for corruption. But also there needs to be an attitude change.

We cannot continue to beat up, ban, warn, or caution those people we dislike for whatever stupid reason. I know a lot about how things go down on forums and I've seen a lot of forums take the long road to failure down this route - the mods and regulars banning and harassing certain members but favouring others. What you end up with is a shitty little cabal of total assholes who think they're better than everyone else - newbies register at their peril.

We need some CLARITY. We're either going to go by the book, or abandon the rules entirely - we cannot carry on, simply using the rules whenever we want to get rid of or spite someone but disregard them for those we favour. The mods got me banned for a week after an all out anti-dino campeign from Hobo and Rich, for "spam" - do we really want a moderator team who gang up on individuals they don't like and ignore the rulebreaking of others simply because they favour them? (I'm sure they'll deny that this is the case)

Let's not have shifting principles and moving goalposts. It's time we got a little respect and tact around here, and handled ourselves maturely and diplomatically. That thread in the W+B forum was a really good example of how things have gone wrong here - spamming, disrespect, tactless comments, disregard for the rules, and moderators not doing their duties properly. This has to stop otherwise the forums are genuinely doomed. We need some moral standards and values that are upheld and adhered to. This is a great community and it pisses me off when I see it going to shit, because I know that it shouldn't be that way.

So, to recap, we need more clarity on how the rules are being enforced, a greater emphasis placed on being respectful and tactful, and no more of this mafia-like behaviour among the moderator team.

Discuss/suggest/etc.

You know what I see here? 'I have one or two warnings boo hoo' Grow up and stop being such a baby. 'tard.

[LoboDiabloLoneWolf]

Yeh, I agree with ya Dino, I mean, c'mon Hobo;

You know what I see here? 'I have one or two warnings boo hoo' Grow up and stop being such a baby. 'tard.

What was that for?

And is it just me or do some people on this forum think they're so much better then the rest of us?

[Hobo]

When Disgruntled Intern (God rest his soul) pwnd you all it was great!

But now a lowly Super Moderator starts to pwn this little annoying account whore, it's the crime of the century.

Stop your moaning. Please. Or i'll release PA into the non-religious threads again

[LoboDiabloLoneWolf]

Sheesh, was only askin', don't need to throw a wobbly Hobo...

On topic, still think Dino's right, the forum's doomed if 'favoured' members get away with breakin' the rules.

(What the heck is pwned????)

[Xavier]

I do agree with the point that every spammer should be punished...
on that point GD is almost 100% clean

[Hobo]

Every spammer gets punished? Then we return to nazi Alcar Era. Everyone hated that.
I have great respect for many members, and this respect is usually gained by not spamming and being constructive. Other members don't. And i feel more inclined to let friendly members shortcoming's slide, whereas bastards, other than myself, i feel more inclined to give them a warning.

[used:)]

Look, I agree with Dino on most things especially the anti-dino thing. But, Jesus, can't you people just drop the whole thing. Not only is it petty and stupid, but it is spreading spam everywhere. Dino, you are very hypocritical at times. You would sometimes bash members for no good reason and suddenly you've started this whole anti flaming thing. And Hobo, you're an asshole.

I believe my warning was just because it is a moral crime to bring back an old thread and because of that, its throat was slit and it was left to repose in its once beautiful aura. But spam has become an excuse for some mods to just go warn people.

[Statikk HDM]

There needs to be a concrete definition of spam.
Also, rule-breaking has to be enforced equally. I don't want to name names but at least in my eyes it seems new people and a few regulars get dogpiled for minor abuses while those favored or viewed as humorous get to a pull a lot of stuff that others can't.

[Hobo]

Look, I agree with Dino on most things especially the anti-dino thing. But, Jesus, can't you people just drop the whole thing. Not only is it petty and stupid, but it is spreading spam everywhere. Dino, you are very hypocritical at times. You would sometimes bash members for no good reason and suddenly you've started this whole anti flaming thing. And Hobo, you're an asshole.

I prefered this pre-edit...

Nobody (other than Reece) complained when DI was an arsehole, what i don't get is this whole attraction of members towards these Reece clones like Dino, maybe it's just that lies are easier to love than truths no? I don't give a crap if you moan and bitch about my iron fist policies. To be honest, this whole forum is getting fucking boring, and it has been since the Reece clones marched in, ok the first few were amusing, even Codek was to some extent. But i prefered it when morons didn't have to have a fight against authority every 5 minutes? You want to rebel? Go to a fucking emo whiney losers forum. But leave this one alone.

[used:)]

To be honest, this wholeforums is fucking boring,

Maybe if you didn't close every single damn thread you don't like because of oits concept.

Reece clones

Well maybe it's time flush out the old and intake the new.

fucking emo whiney losers forum.

Now you're making me spund like a threat to make yourself look like a hero.

[LoboDiabloLoneWolf]

Cor bliming, this ain't half turning into a flame war. Hobo, what's a Reece clone? Who the heck is Reece anyway?

But now now everyone, you're all gettin' cranky, I think it's past all your bedtimes...

Sorry, couldn't resist. Hee.

can't you people just drop the whole thing. Not only is it petty and stupid, but it is spreading spam everywhere.

Cheer for used!

But you gotta admit, it's kinda amusin'...in a weird...twisted sorta way...

[Rich]

Hobo, what's a Reece clone?

A clone of Reese Charles. It's all in the name.

Well maybe it's time flush out the old and intake the new.

Kind of contradictory, eh? You know how the story goes...

[used:)]

No, I don't know how the story goes I'm afraid.

[Rich]

No, I don't know how the story goes I'm afraid.

I thought I told you via PM. I'll have to do it again, as it's a taboo subject and bannings are not to be discussed here.

[used:)]

Oh, you mean THAT story. Well um, nothing to see here folks!

[AquaticAmbi]

Lobo, I suggest you stop posting in this thread. You have no idea what's going on. But I'll let you in on what a Reece clone is. Reece Charles, I believe that was the whole name, was/is a member that keeps creating multiple accounts. After one is banned, he creates another. He's had about five. When someone mentions death/codek, mawk, and some others, they're talking about him. Dino is highly suspected/believed to be him. I'll make no comment on my current belief on this.

Oof, I knew I'd see a thread like this when the week was up. From skimming through it, I formally declare Hobo king of all that is uh... sassy. And everyone should chillax. Favoritism happens on all forums. Get over it, yo.

[CheeseOfGlory]

Oh noes, favoritism and spam on a forum! This is the end guys, game over man, game over.

(We don't always have to discuss intelligent things, this isn't some scientific journal, it's just for fun)




mmmm...drivel

[Dipstikk]

Nobody (other than Reece) complained when DI was an arsehole

Ahem, I believe I've divulged my fair share of complaints over DI's poor Moderating (not to mention PR) skills in the few months of his return (after being gone for, what, a year?), up to his eventual (and hopefully perminent) goodbye.

He was a terrible moderator. He had a bitter attitude for some reason and took it out on anyone he wasn't "chummy" with.

It's my opinion that DI is a terrible choice for a Moderator.

And that's all I have to say in this thread.I'll be over in OT, beating up PA in an alley if you need me.

[Dino]

You know what I see here? 'I have one or two warnings boo hoo' Grow up and stop being such a baby. 'tard.

This is exactly what I am talking about. That is not how a moderator conducts himself. That is how a disrespectful prick conducts himself. No better than I used to be.

And yes, that's right it's no secret, I was acting like a disrespectful prick too. And yeah, I did deserve my banning. But what I didn't deserve, was to be singled out, when others were just as worthy, if not more worthy of getting at least a warning for their spam.

This favour one, hate on another culture has to be stamped out. It's doing us no good. Also I'm not asking for people to be cold, dull icebergs who never say or do anything interesting - I'm just saying we should all learn to moderate our behaviour, and be more respectful of others. Conduct ourselves with tact and decency, rather than the way that I behaved in Dipstikk's thread. And let's have a little definition between spam and joke, because I don't believe the two should be confused. But also lets work to make spam less of a grey area, and outline what our policies on spam are so that we all know where we stand.

Contrary to what Hobo suggests, I am not moaning about my ban. In fact I realise now that for us to move forward I should readily accept that I deserved it, which I do. What I am doing though, is saying that if I deserved it, then so did many others who were behaving just as badly. Like Statikk pointed out, some people get dogpiled for making the slightest mistake, while others are almost completely ignored. I don't remember ever seeing CheeseOfGlory get a warning for spam, but I can cite numerous occasions where he's clearly spammed - this to me looks like favouritism. This is great for Cheese, but sucks for everyone else, and I fear that if it continues, people will just get fed up with it and leave. If that happens, the OWF will go all quiet and boring again. And we'll be left with that little cabal of annoying hypocrites that I was talking about earlier.

Either way I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. If this place goes to shit, then, well, it isn't my problem. It'll be a shame, but to be honest it's not the only forum I frequent, so it wouldn't be a huge loss. And hey, maybe this problem will sort itself out on it's own in time. I'm just doing my bit to try to get things straightened out.

Every spammer gets punished? Then we return to nazi Alcar Era. Everyone hated that.

Actually this elitist favouritism is closer to the concept of the nazis than any across the board clampdown on spamming. And I'm sure everyone did hate it - people are quick to accuse and punish other's of misbehaving but they absolutely loathe it when they themselves are faced with the same accusations and punishments.

[AquaticAmbi]

Wow, you seriously spent an hour on that? I giggle and such.

And stop picking on Luke's and my sexy piece of cheese, who happened to make a point: spam and a little favoritism, things all decently sized forums have, won't bring an end to the forum. Unless it gets out of control, but I don't think it has really. It's not like people are getting banned every month/week/whatever simply because a mod or two dislikes him or her. And I certainly don't know of anyone ever getting banned without deserving it.

[used:)]

Stop picking on Dino. Clone or no, he still has an identity and deserves the equal rights as long as he exists here. And no offense, but it's REALLY getting annoying with the whole "DON'T MESS WITH MY MODDY AND CHEESE" gimmick. Honestly, I respect you guys as much as the next member, but the cold truth is, Cheese HAS spammed a lot in certain threads. You don't agree, go check out my twins thread. I don't hold anything againt Kuba because I respect him and like him. Nor anything against you and Luke. SeaRex has proably been one of the only efficient mods these days and Ambi is one of the only Christians that doesn't play the whole missionary act. So please, STFU ALL OF YOU!

[Dino]

Wow, you seriously spent an hour on that? I giggle and such.

And stop picking on Luke's and my sexy piece of cheese, who happened to make a point: spam and a little favoritism, things all decently sized forums have, won't bring an end to the forum. Unless it gets out of control, but I don't think it has really. It's not like people are getting banned every month/week/whatever simply because a mod or two dislikes him or her. And I certainly don't know of anyone ever getting banned without deserving it.

I spent an hour on what? The post above? I don't see where it says I spent an hour posting it. Are you saying you spent an hour watching my actions in "who's online"?

And I have to say, when he first came here, Used's posts were utter rubbish, but I'm starting to get a real respect for the guy. He's making some very good points (if you ignore the "STFU EVERYBODY!" thing), all of which I agree with 100%. The gimmicks ARE getting old, and I think they've been milked for more than long enough. You've had your leeway, now all we're (or I am) asking you to please do is start contributing, following the rules, and being respectful like everyone else. As great as you all are, you're not so fantastic that you can just ride your surfboard of charisma to the get-out-of-jail-free-card distribution office. The rules apply to everybody, not just the people we don't like.

To be honest you're really just taking the piss. We all like your jokes and stuff, and in moderation they're perfectly acceptable. It's just when it's all you ever post that it get's annoying and tiring. It's not funny, no matter how much you pretend it is merely because "oh hey, it's ok cause Kuba said it, he's SO mad and funky!".

Downplaying the problem doesn't make it go away either. It's no good saying that favouritism isn't too bad here because it is - it affects the OT area hugely. People are spewing a rediculous amount of spam and getting away with it because it's "querky" or just part of their mad sense of humour. And like I said, in moderation it's fine, but at the moment it's just taking the piss. The spam occurs at the detriment of the content.

[AquaticAmbi]

"DON'T MESS WITH MY MODDY AND CHEESE" gimmick.

Because I so go caps lock and whatnot all the time...

I spent an hour on what? The post above? I don't see where it says I spent an hour posting it. Are you saying you spent an hour watching my actions in "who's online"?

Hah, yes. Of course. Actually, Kuba told me you were replying, I clicked your profile, which said you were replying and later when I came back after some browsing and homework, the time you submitted your post was an hour later.

And I have to say, when he first came here, Used's posts were utter rubbish, but I'm starting to get a real respect for the guy. He's making some very good points (if you ignore the "STFU EVERYBODY!" thing), all of which I agree with 100%. The gimmicks ARE getting old, and I think they've been milked for more than long enough. You've had your leeway, now all we're (or I am) asking you to please do is start contributing, following the rules, and being respectful like everyone else. As great as you all are, you're not so fantastic that you can just ride your surfboard of charisma to the get-out-of-jail-free-card distribution office. The rules apply to everybody, not just the people we don't like.

Because I'm one of the most uncontributing, rules-breaking, unrespectful bitches this forum has ever seen. Yep. But no worries, when I'm banned, I'll create a new account. Seems to work pretty well here.

To be honest you're really just taking the piss. We all like your jokes and stuff, and in moderation they're perfectly acceptable. It's just when it's all you ever post that it get's annoying and tiring. It's not funny, no matter how much you pretend it is merely because "oh hey, it's ok cause Kuba said it, he's SO mad and funky!".

Too be honest, I don't take anything you say seriously anymore. I'm tired of playing along all nicely. And yes, Kuba is SO mad and funky. Funky fresh, even.

And what do you mean, "all [I] ever post"...

Downplaying the problem doesn't make it go away either. It's no good saying that favouritism isn't too bad here because it is - it affects the OT area hugely. People are spewing a rediculous amount of spam and getting away with it because it's "querky" or just part of their mad sense of humour. And like I said, in moderation it's fine, but at the moment it's just taking the piss. The spam occurs at the detriment of the content.

I still disagree that the amount of spam or favoritism here is ridiculous. I know that's pretty easy for me to say as someone who seems a wee bit favored, or at least I have a connection with an admin making me at least favored by him, but really, I've seen much worse. (And there was a time that I envied those who seemed pretty popular and got away with more. But that's a positive on any forum--getting a way with a little more once you've proved yourself as a valuable member.) There's no such thing as a perfect forum, but I'd rank this one pretty high.

[Majic]

Le sigh. This never would've happened back in my day...

Anyways, this little bickering thing is silly. Sure, I hardly come and post anymore. Sure, I could hardly construct a list of the currently active users. But may the mighty diety in the sky strike me down if I let this continue without my two cents.

To the mods: lead by example. If you're going to take the responsibility to represent the forum, do a respectable job. Even if it takes all your will, restrain yourselves from lashing out, and keep a level head. The latter also includes the whole "treat everyone the same" dealy majig. Thinking of other users as some sort of entity to fued with is a dangerous game that leads nowhere. Also, try and start some topics of reasonable discussion or otherwise awesome links etc..., and carry on legitimate conversation within them. Good topics help create a happier atmosphere.

To the general population: Remember that the difference between the mods and you is a special title, and a slew of varingly tedious responsibilities. Hold yourselves up to their level, and remember that if you want this place to stick around, not even the fanciest of custom titles grants the bearer a magic wand to remedy a situation. Also take note that once upon a time, I made two threads, one involving SPAM and the other GENERAL POSTING TIPS. After seeing all of this jumble, yours truly plans on making a few updates to them sometime in the next few days. Don't recall if I ever made a section on posting etiquette, but I'll be sure to if there isn't.

That's about all I got. I've been trying to rush this post, as there's a beast brewing in my bowels, and it can't wait to go swimming. Accept my apologies if anything is either grammarically incorrect, or just plain fuzzy/wrong.

[Alcar]

If you all don't shut up, I'll take out my Nazi suit. AND then you'll WISH you'd listened to Hobo in the first place.

Alcar...

[Majic]

Say, for any of you older chaps... didn't Morpheus warn us about something like this?

Rofl for good times.

[Alcar]

Morpheus warned us about the revolution, as far as I remember. He even came back to gloat.

Alcar...

[Shrink]

Dino, ever since I've been here, the mods of Off-Topic were as you describe. Well, perhaps that isn't fair - Disgruntled Intern certainly was. I never, ever understood how he could have become a moderator, he was a nasty bastard.
Then I realised that moderators were elected by forumers. Sigh.
I think there have been other cases of shit moderators, but I can't remember and I don't take enough notice of the current ones to comment on them.

Saying that, I don't like a lot about these fora, such as the obssession with innuendo; constant sexual comments such as 'Come to bed, [name],' that you can find all over this forum and Off-Topic. Not that I'm a repressed who hates any sexuality, it's just ****ing boring and entirely unfunny and unentertaining.
But I'm not one to complain, every forum has it's annoying little quirks. I just rarely post nowadays.