Religious Debate - Homosexuality

Facsimile · #1 11-23-2004, 02:25 AM

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In my own opinion it is just sad to think that in this day and age people believe being gay is a natural thing from birth. As my opinion goes I don't believe in being gay as something natural occuring. Its all in the mind and its a feeling some people get which isn't judged by me but it is in the eyes of God. Now thats as far as I am going to go with my Christian faith. I think that is a rather proper way to state something like that as oppose to forceing a belief on someone.

God I hate you.

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To clarify :: this thread was split from the topic here. ~Abe Babe

Dipstikk · #2 11-23-2004, 02:44 AM

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(AquaticAmbi and Dipstikk, your both so, so quoteable(sp?).)

My GOD! I love being quotable!

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In my own opinion it is just sad to think that in this day and age people believe being gay is a natural thing from birth. As my opinion goes I don't believe in being gay as something natural occuring. Its all in the mind and its a feeling some people get which isn't judged by me but it is in the eyes of God. Now thats as far as I am going to go with my Christian faith. I think that is a rather proper way to state something like that as oppose to forceing a belief on someone.

Go Go Super BibleMan! You tell those sinners! Let 'em know who's boss: A vaguely described diety who supposedly hasn't appeared for over 2,000 years!
From now on in, I shall referr to you as Pope PA.

***Alcar*** · #3 11-23-2004, 03:21 AM

PA, if God created everything, why did he create Homosexuals? Surely if they are evil, and a bane of the planet, God wouldn't do such a thing. Are you saying that God created them for his own amusement? That sounds like a rather evil God to me. I guess mutations and birth defects are also unnatural. But I don't see anyone smacking a Bible into the back of a disabled kid. Unless that was you the Police were looking for

How is it, PA, that being a Catholic, I can openly accept Homosexuals, and yet know that I'm not next in line for Hell? My God is your God.

Alcar...

paramiteabe · #4 11-23-2004, 05:17 AM

You seem to think you can walk all over me like that because of one measly viewpoint I made in another thread.

You are the ones who want to debate religion with me and homosexuality, not I and I won't. I stated once my opinion and all you do is walk all over me by posting a thread attacking my own opinion. I even said the phrase "my own opinion." That is very low! I tell ya what though, the forums in the past never used to be like this where ones own opinion in another thread has been violated in every way possible. Facismile I thought you were better than that but I guess not. I know you guys hate me because of my opinion but to go as low as posting a thread and attacking me like this is just wrong. Just leave me alone I really don't want to be apart of your sick and twisted games on here. I am amazed of the shit I put up with on here and this will constitute as being the worst of it all. I just wish that someone would respect my request to close this thread please.

OANST · #5 11-23-2004, 07:24 AM

I'm not sure you can think of this as an attack. Think of it as the education you so badly need.

Majic · #6 11-23-2004, 08:49 AM

Actually, as I recall, there used to be some bitchin' fights going down over creationism, abortion, etc... Good ol' Pinky. If anything, vicious religious debate seems like a return to roots.

Esus · #7 11-23-2004, 08:49 AM

We know its your opinion, PA, we are not saying that you act as thought it is fact, however, we are allowed to express our opinions of others' opinions.

oddguy · #8 11-23-2004, 09:00 AM

Not that I endorse what PA says, but I think publicly demeaning someone is just wrong. If you really wanted to 'educate' him as you say, then send him a PM or something. Also...I wouldn't want to try and take advice from anyone if they were addressing me in such a condescending manner.

Yah...

-oddguy

Nepharski · #9 11-23-2004, 09:22 AM

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PA, if God created everything, why did he create Homosexuals? Surely if they are evil, and a bane of the planet, God wouldn't do such a thing. Are you saying that God created them for his own amusement?

In Genisis, the two individuals known as Adam and Eve, about faced, and failed to looking into God and his Wisdom (AKA turned their backs on him). He had but one rule, and it was shattered. Thus, sin came unto the world, via Lucipher (The Devil). Homosexuality was one of it's incarnations. I shall locate the explicit verses where such is stated, if it is asked of me by any individual.

P.S. PA...I feel your pain.

Jacob · #10 11-23-2004, 11:32 AM

'Homosexuality was one of it's incarnations. I shall locate the explicit verses where such is stated, if it is asked of me by any individual.'

Yes, i agree it states it in the verses, as i've read them and such. However, saying this, isn't it reasonable to say that because of the primitive nature of Science back then, they couldn't administer the specific tests done to show that Faggotness is natural. And thus weren't clever enough to realise it's nature not nurture.

If nature can create Transgendereds. And Transexuals. Then surely it can create Homosexuals?

Also, what is the point of God creating a Transgendered and Transexual person? Puzzling!

OANST · #11 11-23-2004, 12:00 PM

I don't think the question everyone should be asking is whether or not the Christian god denounces homosexuality because it's clear that he does. There is a verse that says that if a man lays with a man as a man lays with a woman he should be stoned. The question everyone should be asking is whether or not you are willing to worship a god who says it's okay to murder people just because they are in love.

Nepharski · #12 11-23-2004, 12:02 PM

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And thus weren't clever enough to realise it's nature not nurture.

Can you bring to the table any proof of this?

OANST · #13 11-23-2004, 12:06 PM

The highest suicide rate in the USA is homosexual christians. They actually believe that they are evil even if they have never acted on their urges. They can't change what they feel. And honestly, why should they? Who does it hurt? Nobody? Good job. You figured it out.

Jacob · #14 11-23-2004, 12:29 PM

'Can you bring to the table any proof of this?'

I'm going on the basis that men created the Bible as a form of control. Not that it was dictated by God. If you are going to go on that basis [that it was dictated by God] then OT's point is rather valid. And possibly the better argument i've heard against the anti-Fag league.

paramiteabe · #15 11-23-2004, 12:43 PM

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We know its your opinion, PA, we are not saying that you act as thought it is fact, however, we are allowed to express our opinions of others' opinions.

But in a seperate thread I mean comeon I can understand a PM but in the public of the forums? Thats just wrong!

OANST · #16 11-23-2004, 12:46 PM

Bigotry is wrong as well. Not to say you're a bigot but when something ignorant is said most people just want to correct it.

***Nate*** · #17 11-23-2004, 12:47 PM

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In Genisis, the two individuals known as Adam and Eve, about faced, and failed to looking into God and his Wisdom (AKA turned their backs on him). He had but one rule, and it was shattered. Thus, sin came unto the world, via Lucipher (The Devil). Homosexuality was one of it's incarnations. I shall locate the explicit verses where such is stated, if it is asked of me by any individual.

Please do. I've read the Genesis story a few times and I've never come up with any references to homosexuality.

OANST you've actually misquoted the verse. The actual phrase is that a man should not lay down with another man like with a woman because it is an abomination before god. Now that sounds pretty bad, but lets remember that its possible to lose some meaning in translation. Perhaps we should look at other sins in the bible where the word 'abomination' is used. I'm working from memory here so there may be more that I don't know.

#1 Its an abomination to break the Sabbath. Thus if you work/light a fire/go to the shops and purchase something/pick a flower/etc you have commited a sin as bad as anal sex.
#2 Beleive it or not, eating shellfish is called an abomination.

In case you don't know, I'm Jewish. Though I beleive in the sanctity of the bible, I also beleive that no-one is perfect and we should keep an element of perspective. Was it not Jesus himself who sais "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?

Majic · #18 11-23-2004, 12:48 PM

Doesn't the Bible also state something along the lines that divorce is wrong? I don't see Christians flocking to prevent married couples from splitting up. There's a point where the "It's wrong" argument just doesn't work.

EDIT: Also note, the Bible is dated to an extent. God says homosexuals should be stoned. Does the modern, mainstream Christian populous believe in stoning?

OANST · #19 11-23-2004, 12:49 PM

I didn't mean to give the impression that it was word for word but it does say that they should be stoned. What else was different between what I said and what you said?

Joe the Intern · #20 11-23-2004, 12:54 PM

The fact that Big G punished Adam and Eve for eating from the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE says something about the very nature of Christianity.

OANST · #21 11-23-2004, 01:00 PM

Exactly my point. Did you know that anyone who touches the skin of a pig is to be killed according to the bilbe? Football teams are in some serious trouble.
p.s. Love your sig Joe. I've been watching space ghost since I was 14

oddguy · #22 11-23-2004, 01:13 PM

I believe in God, and I put common sense into my beliefs as well. Seriously, I don't think God wants us to hate our fellow men and judge them. Nosy Christians need to stop pointing out other's faults and look at themselves.

-oddguy

Majic · #23 11-23-2004, 01:21 PM

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I believe in God, and I put common sense into my beliefs as well. Seriously, I don't think God wants us to hate our fellow men and judge them. Nosy Christians need to stop pointing out other's faults and look at themselves.

-oddguy

Bajeebus. Why can't all religious chaps be as nonagressively passive as you?

OANST · #24 11-23-2004, 01:27 PM

It depends on whether or not you take the bible to be literal or if you think it's metaphors. Personally I think you have to take it literally and that's why I want nothing to do with it.

***Nate*** · #25 11-23-2004, 01:27 PM

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Doesn't the Bible also state something along the lines that divorce is wrong?
God says homosexuals should be stoned.

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anyone who touches the skin of a pig is to be killed according to the bilbe?

I'm gonna need references here, cos all that sounds like rubbish. At least if you're refering to the Old Testament. I've got no idea about the new one.

#1 the bible allows divorce, no problem.
#2 not within my knowledge. Adultery was punished by stoning though.
#3 No eating pig. No problem with touching.

OANST · #26 11-23-2004, 01:43 PM

Incorrect on all fronts.

The bible does not allow divorce
Gayety was a stoning offense
TOUCHING a pig is a death offense

oddguy · #27 11-23-2004, 02:21 PM

The silly pig touching law and other stuff like that is the Law of Moses from the Old Testament. People hated Jesus so much because he was correcting the Law of Moses. Certain Christians forget that the Old Testament is just a record of the old law and use it to bash gays and such. Jesus told us to do unto others as we would have others do unto us...the golden rule.

Here's an example of change between the Old and New Testament.

Old Testament:
Leviticus 20:9
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

New Testament:
Ephesians 6:4
And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Notice how common sense was added in the New Testament?
Jesus brought common sense to the table, but certain Christains seem to forget about it.

-oddguy

OANST · #28 11-23-2004, 02:27 PM

I actually did make a mistake. It's touching the skin of a dead pig. You're cool if it's still alive.

***Nate*** · #29 11-23-2004, 02:50 PM

OANST you have to bring sources before you can convince me.

Oddguy you've touched on a very complicated theological issue.

Judaism beleives in the 'Written Law' and the 'Oral Law'. The Written Law is the five books of moses and the 613 commandments within. However these are meaningless without the Oral Law, which, according to tradition, was told (orally) to Moses on Mount Sinai and then passed down to the rest of the Israelites. It has since been written down and codified in the Talmud.

In simple terms, the Oral Law is an explanation of the Written Law. For instance, the bible says that in order to kill animals for food, you must slaughter it in "the way I (ie god) have shown you". The Talmud then explains in rigorous detail how it must be done.

Also, your example of the rebellious son doesn't explain exactly what makes a son so bad that he deserves to be killed. The Talmud explains what 'rebellious' means. I haven't studied that exact section so I can't explain it myself but he must have done something really bad.

For all our discussion of stoning, there is an old Jewish saying that a court that sentences to death one person in seventy years is considered a murderous court.

Sorry for the long post but it irritates me when people read something out of context and assume that all religions are evil and bloodthirsty. Another example: eye for an eye is not meant literally. If someone pokes your eye out you aren't meant to poke his out in revenge. Rather the talmud explains that it means that he must pay appropriate compensation.

oddguy · #30 11-23-2004, 03:06 PM

I hope I didn't offend you, NDW. I was just addressing my religion...Christianity. And I didn't say all Christians were wrong. I said "certain Christians."

And the example I was trying to make with the passages about Parents and Children was this:
In the Old Testament, it was only one way. If you simply talked bad about Mum and Dad, you died. Parents could do whatever they wanted, because they were the parents. But in New Testament, it says parents can't provoke their children.

-oddguy