Child License

Havoc · #1 03-26-2006, 12:55 PM

The subject has been brought up for short moments in various other topics, but I figured I'd make a topic about it.

Children, in my eyes one of the most anoying things on the planet, but for most people a long term life wish. Get a girl, get a house, get a child, is often what you hear when you ask someone how they see their future.
But why is getting a child concidered so normal? It's a big chalange. It costs a lot of money, a lot of time and it generaly throws your entire life upside down. On top of that, not everyone automaticly makes a good parrent. It's a human life you are responsible for for at least 15 years.
So why can everyone just say: Hey I want a child?

Why isn't there some sort of Child License. So you need a license to be able to breed. It would certainly cut down on the kids stuck in an orphanage, child abuse cases, ect. Let the goverment set up a department that checks if a couple is fit to have a child or not and then give out the permit for one or more kids.

So, your views. Discuss!

T-nex · #2 03-26-2006, 01:00 PM

The reason to why everyone wants a child: It's our instinct...

Also, i don't know about a child license..That seems... wrong... But i always believed that you should only get a child if you know you have the power and cerumstances for it the next 18 years or so...

used:) · #3 03-26-2006, 01:04 PM

Not really, it's one of our basic duties in life to reproduce.

I for one can't wait to have children, there's really nothing more amazing than raising a child in my mind. So yes, bring up all those factors like the screaming, kicking, and other little annoying traits that make you want to drink gasoline.

Now about liscencing other peopel, no, I still think they should have their rights to reproduce. It all comes back to Nazi germany with Aryan lebensborn centers.

Havoc · #4 03-26-2006, 01:16 PM

It WAS the basic duties of life to reproduce, up until the point where we can hardly make room for more people in the first place. There are already plenty of people on this planet, and for our own sake I think it can't hurt if we tune it down by a billion people or so in the next decade.

And I'm not saying to ban breeding all together, but do you seriously think it's a good idea to let a couple that lives in a 10 x 10 appartment and has $300 a month to spend, have a child? Thats just one example. What about just plain stupid people... for example: Bush family should not be allowed to breed EVER again...

It's those kind of cases I'm referring to.

Dipstikk · #5 03-26-2006, 01:19 PM

I MAKE JOKES ABOUT BUSH BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE DOES WHICH MAKES IT COOL, PLUS HE'S AN EASY TARGET AND THAT MAKES THE JOKE ALL THE MORE ORIGINAL.

Lol, amirite?

used:) · #6 03-26-2006, 01:21 PM

They may not make the best of parents, but they still have their rights to reproduce. And yes, our world popluation has sky rocketed since the fifties, but that doesn't mean we should start putting restrictions on child birth. Plus, there is always abortion if the parents don't feel they are ready for parentage.

Havoc · #7 03-26-2006, 01:22 PM

Who said I was joking?

EDIT: Used, can't people figure out they arn't fit for raising a child BEFORE they get pregnant? I don't have anything against abortions, but it's a little easy to it like that don't you think?

used:) · #8 03-26-2006, 01:29 PM

:

Who said I was joking?

EDIT: Used, can't people figure out they arn't fit for raising a child BEFORE they get pregnant? I don't have anything against abortions, but it's a little easy to it like that don't you think?

Not everyone intends to get pregenant when they have sex. Dont forget about certain incidents like condoms breaking or birth control not working.

AquaticAmbi · #9 03-26-2006, 01:29 PM

True, those are some very big and very real concerns. Overpopulation and whatnot...

But I couldn't morally agree with someone having to past tests of some sort to hold their natural right to bear children.

Plus, for the sake of discussion, what sort of test would people have to pass? Who would fund it? How would you administrate it to the entire population (of even one country)? And what if they failed the test and didn't get certified to bear children: Would you sterilize people? That opens up a new debate all together.

*Suddenly wishes Jacob was here*

Havoc · #10 03-26-2006, 01:33 PM

Do you have the funds, what kind of situation are you living in, ect. Pretty much the same tests that are taken when people want to adopt a child. Raises another question, why do you need to take a test for adopting a child, and not to have your own child by just screwing away in the bedroom?
A system like that could easily be blended with adopting agencies and what not, I think. Since it pretty much comes down to the same.

used:) · #11 03-26-2006, 01:39 PM

I still dont like it. To put bans on certain people from reproduciong only begs the question of where we stop after that. And keep the children in mind, as people have said in other threads, a bad life is better than no life at all.

Havoc · #12 03-26-2006, 01:51 PM

That must be the most stupid argument I have heard in a while... unless you're talking from a religious angle (and even then), that just doesn't make sence. You're saying that it's better to breed and have a child that leads a ****ed up life, then to not breed and not create a life to argue over in the first place? I fail to see the logic there, sorry.

used:) · #13 03-26-2006, 01:55 PM

Perhaps I should have worded it differently. Not necessarily a bad life, just in a bad environment. Humans aren't stationary lumps of flesh, if you look at some of the extraordinary people in today's world, a lot of them led pretty shitty early lives.

Havoc · #14 03-26-2006, 01:59 PM

You didn't answer my earlier question. You said a bad life (or enviorment) is better then no life at all. I still do not get the logic in that.

And that new argument of yours is no reason to purposefully let people have kids in a bad enviorment. Or do you think it actualy is?

used:) · #15 03-26-2006, 02:06 PM

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You didn't answer my earlier question. You said a bad life (or enviorment) is better then no life at all. I still do not get the logic in that.

And that new argument of yours is no reason to purposefully let people have kids in a bad enviorment. Or do you think it actualy is?

Yes, which I said I probably should have worded differently to better express me thoughts.

I am not sayaing that a bad environment is best for a child, who would think that? I am saying that humans are capable of changing locations. There are factors like their monetary capacity.

***Nate*** · #16 03-26-2006, 02:10 PM

So what you're saying is that parents should pass more than the practical test to parenthood?

I agree with you in principle in terms of raising well-balanced children but my one concern is how to decide who is an appropriate parent and who isn't. What if some beaurocrat decided that black people don't make good parents?

In any case, overpopulation is not a good enough reason for this. A law like this would only apply in the western world, where birth rates have been dropping anyway, to the point that many countries need immigration just to keep a constant population.

Daxter King · #17 03-26-2006, 03:11 PM

. It actually might be a good idea. Many children are abused and have a bad life that most of the time creates a pattern where they abuse their children and it goes on to the next generation. Over populaton is another problem. The fatal faw is you cant really stop people from having sex unless you watcht them constantly.

Rich · #18 03-26-2006, 03:14 PM

To a certain extent I believe this to be a good idea. Its like abortion but a lot more humane.

AquaticAmbi · #19 03-26-2006, 03:16 PM

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Do you have the funds, what kind of situation are you living in, ect. Pretty much the same tests that are taken when people want to adopt a child. Raises another question, why do you need to take a test for adopting a child, and not to have your own child by just screwing away in the bedroom?
A system like that could easily be blended with adopting agencies and what not, I think. Since it pretty much comes down to the same.

Okay... but you still didn't answer what would happen if they failed. Sterilization? Forced abortions?

Meh, I had some long point agreeing with Used but deleted it. I'll just say that I see his point as I grew up in poor conditions and an unhealthy environment and turned out just fine.

used:) · #20 03-26-2006, 03:48 PM

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Meh, I had some long point agreeing with Used but deleted it. I'll just say that I see his point as I grew up in poor conditions and an unhealthy environment and turned out just fine.

Same here. I would have continued on in my post about how not all people reflect their childhood environments as adults, but apparantly it's reasonable to charge in when someone is doing something. After all, I've grown up ina lot of bad secenarios: a gang filled slum, racist backwater hick town, but you don't see me caught up in drugs, sex, and killing now do you?

Havoc · #21 03-26-2006, 04:11 PM

I am well aware that growing up in a bad enviorment doesn't automaticly mean the kid is going to end up bad. I grew up and still am in a very bad enviorment and I got out very very good.
There is much more to having a license for kids then just the enviorment. For one, murderers, rapists, child abusers, ect should be excluded from getting kids, PERIOD. Mental handicapted people, same story. Nothing against mentaly handicapted, but what idiot figured that these people are capable of taking care of a child?
And if I had anything to do with it, stupid people would not be allowed to breed either, and trust me, that would SERIOUSLY cap down the population in a decade or so.

And if people get a kid anyway even though they don't have a licence? Well yea I guess that's kind of a hard one. You could force abortion, or just put the child up for adoption and fine the parents with a few thousand dollars. But only in the real extreme cases.

used:) · #22 03-26-2006, 04:28 PM

:

I am well aware that growing up in a bad enviorment doesn't automaticly mean the kid is going to end up bad. I grew up and still am in a very bad enviorment and I got out very very good.
There is much more to having a license for kids then just the enviorment. For one, murderers, rapists, child abusers, ect should be excluded from getting kids, PERIOD.

That I WILL agree with you on. Humanity should do the best they can to keep children safe from those kinds of people.

Now the mentally handicapped are a different story, do you mean like with down syndrome, or hypochondria or some other mental illness?

Even if I agree with you on being agaist stupid people like red necks, perverts or chavs from bredding, that still isn't nearly enough justification to put reproduction bans on them. Even so, thatn would just lead humans like that to breed within their own people, leading to a caste system.

Havoc · #23 03-26-2006, 04:30 PM

Well I don't know much about mental disorders, or the Down Syndrome. But in my experience these people often need guidance themselfs which makes me wonder how on earth they could take care of a child.

Stupid people can not be stopped from breeding, although it would be cool :P. The be rid of all the stupid people on the planet... would sure change a lot

.

AquaticAmbi · #24 03-26-2006, 04:40 PM

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And if people get a kid anyway even though they don't have a licence? Well yea I guess that's kind of a hard one. You could force abortion, or just put the child up for adoption and fine the parents with a few thousand dollars. But only in the real extreme cases.

Are you serious? Forcing abortions is just as bad as the people who want to ban them. It's kind of funny that you can see religious people's extremism, but you can't see your own. And forcing children into adoption? One of your major points was to cut down the number of children in foster homes. You'd rather automatically throw them in there than give their parents, who may actually desire children, a chance to raise the kids simply because they didn't pass some sort of test?

Today's lesson: Don't tell women what to do with their uteri.

used:) · #25 03-26-2006, 04:43 PM

I agree with Ambi wholeheartadly.

T-nex · #26 03-26-2006, 10:16 PM

I think it's just wrong to do this child licensing... Everyone has the right to have kids, even stupid people... But it would be much better if there were councelors(sp?) who could tell you if you should or should not get a child, or at least how to make the enviroment better for the child and stuff like that.

Havoc · #27 03-27-2006, 02:38 AM

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Are you serious? Forcing abortions is just as bad as the people who want to ban them. It's kind of funny that you can see religious people's extremism, but you can't see your own. And forcing children into adoption? One of your major points was to cut down the number of children in foster homes. You'd rather automatically throw them in there than give their parents, who may actually desire children, a chance to raise the kids simply because they didn't pass some sort of test?

Today's lesson: Don't tell women what to do with their uteri.

Thats why I said, only in the extreme cases. I honestly wouldn't what to do if that happend, I didn't think it trough THAT far ahead. I have no idea on what would be a peacefull sollution to it. I guess I'l have to owe you that one.
And it wouldn't be like strict 'you miss one point so you fail' test. In fact, most average families would probably easily pass it.
The idea for a child licence isn't necicerily to restrict the majority of people from having kids, it's more to restrict that other small percentage that shouldn't be able to have kids. Rapists, murderers, criminals, ect. These people don't have the 'right' to bear kids, at least they shouldn't have.
That's what it would be mainly for, to put a restriction on that side.

Biggy Bro Slig · #28 03-27-2006, 06:08 AM

:

The reason to why everyone wants a child: It's our instinct...

Also, i don't know about a child license..That seems... wrong... But i always believed that you should only get a child if you know you have the power and cerumstances for it the next 18 years or so...

We have to carry on the Human Race. And they'll be all sold out of Child Licences by the end of the day. It would cost to much to make something not needed.

AquaticAmbi · #29 03-27-2006, 08:46 AM

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Thats why I said, only in the extreme cases. I honestly wouldn't what to do if that happend, I didn't think it trough THAT far ahead. I have no idea on what would be a peacefull sollution to it. I guess I'l have to owe you that one.
And it wouldn't be like strict 'you miss one point so you fail' test. In fact, most average families would probably easily pass it.
The idea for a child licence isn't necicerily to restrict the majority of people from having kids, it's more to restrict that other small percentage that shouldn't be able to have kids. Rapists, murderers, criminals, ect. These people don't have the 'right' to bear kids, at least they shouldn't have.
That's what it would be mainly for, to put a restriction on that side.

Hmm, okay then. I can definitely agree with rapists. murderers, and other people who commit severe crimes having their right to raise children provoked. But that's usually the case anyway. Their children are taken away from them before they're put into jail.

At the moment, I'm feeling a bit more open to this. I've shifted my perspective a bit from how much I want children and being all defensive about someone possibly taking that dream from me, to how much I love children in general and care about their well-being. I often see parents who I think deserve to have their children taken from them... But the alternative, foster homes, can be just as bad because the social workers don't study the conditions well enough. Sad, sad world...

Gretin · #30 03-27-2006, 07:36 PM

Hmmm... I'm a bit undecided on this. While I do agree that there are some types of people around who really shouldn't be able to be parents, it just doesn't seem right to enforce something like this. Or feasible for that matter. And what about the people who get pregnant unwillingly? Even someone who abstains can become pregnant from, for example, rape. So should they be punished for something that wasn't even their fault?
Another side I see to it is, smoking certain drugs is illegal, is it not? But many people still do it. So you make it illegal for people to have kids without a licence. Is that actually going to make any significant difference?