[Danny]

Originally posted by Max the Mug
Very nice, Sydney. A good topic for discussion. However, I couldn't help thinking this might offend people's philosophy on meat-eating, which is just as bad as offending a person's religion.

"Philosophy on meant-eating"? You make it sound like these people made a moral and ethical decision that meat-eating was the best path for them...

If the killing of livestock was done humanely, I think not so many people would jump from a full diet to a vegetarian one.

I find the implication that a vegetarian diet is not a "full" diet deeply offensive. Okay, so I don't really, but if I did, that would be a far less ridiculous proposition that the idea that people eat meat for philosophical reasons...

Other omnivores and carnivores aren't considered to be immoral in their meat-eating, humans shouldn't be either. If you're going to suggest these creatures don't have a conscience to speak of, that doesn't really address the problem, because it's not these species that have the problem, it's us.

Originally posted by Pinkhaired Mudokon CWR
You species info is interesting. If you say eating meat is wrong and stuff for us, why can't you say that to a monkey? (since some are omnivores like the Pata Monkey and the baboon) Since you think that animals can reason, well I dare you to try to reason with a monkey not to eat meat then and change into a vegetarian.

Originally posted by Statikk HDM
I will stop eating the flesh of other animals if every other animal does the same. Why is it wrong for me to eat meat when just about every advanced animal does the same thing? The wolf can eat the deer, I can't. Why? Why is it okay for every animal that "needs" to eat meat to partake of it but not me. I agree that most meat animals lead effin' brutal lifes. I would much rather kill the animals in the wild, and have all the chickens be free range chickens. But it will never happen. Sharks eat other sharks, insects eat other insects. Hell, primates our supposed relatives have been known to be cannabilistic. I eat meat. You wan to call me cruel selfish, whatever. Fine by me. But next time, picket the killer whale because it eats cod and the wolf pack because it eats wolves. Its a friggin double standard and I don't like it.

Okay, I know that this argument will be used several times in this topic, so I'll address it at the bottom, in my summary.

Originally posted by Max the Mug
Nicking things from school doesn't put a scar on my karma because I don't think it's wrong.

That is a very twisted view of Karma... Is murder not wrong when it is committed by someone who does not believe it is wrong? (I know, I know, extreme example and all that. At least I didn't use Hitler as an example... )

Originally posted by Pinkhaired Mudokon CWR
Lso, just because people eat meat does not make them selfish and ignorant. You don't know what people's issues are. I eat meat for the nutrition. I can't just eat fruits and vegetables all the time I'm skinny and I need my protein. I also am lactose intolerant. Does that make me ignorant and selfish because I don't drink milk? So, you really can't judge anyone or their reason to eat meat.


When if it's a health issue? I know someone who's allergic to strawberries, and bananas and squash. She can't really digest these foods. When if some one were to be allergic to fruits and vegetables and have to take supplements or have to eat meat in order to prevent themselves of starvation or malnutrition?

If somebody had no choice but to eat meat, then of course they should eat it. However, I have never met anybody who has no choice, and neither (I expect) have you. Being skinny is not a life-threatening condition, and there are no (and I repeat NO) nutrients that can only be obtained from Meat. As for the allergy issue, strawberries, bananas and squash do not form a very large part of my diet, and it is very unlikely that a person might be allergic to enough vegetables to make a vegetarian diet untenable (again, if somebody was in this situation, then it would be a different issue, but again you are not, I am not, and nobody I have ever met is).

FAZ....YOUR SO STUPID! WHAT ELSE REASON WOULD THEIR BE TO EAT MEAT? THERE IS NO OTHER REASON? DON'T YOU DARE CALL ME IGNORANT AND LAZY. THE ONLY ONE WHO IS IGNORANT AND LAZY AROUND HERE IS YOU. WHY? BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORANT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE FACTS EITHER, AND LAZY ENOUGH TO KNOW THE REASONS WHY PEOPLE EAT MEAT AND YOU ARE START TO JUDGE PEOPLE! THEY PROBABALY CALLED YOU IGNORANT AND DUMB IN THE PAST ARGUMENTS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH EATING MEAT UNLESS YOU DON'T ABUSE IT. LIKE IF YOU DON'T EXCERSIE AND KEEP IN SHAPE. SO DON'T BE DUMB AND TRY TO FORCE PEOPLE TO CHANGE THEIR DIETS. IF PEOPLE EAT THE MEAT FOR PLEASURE, LET THEM THAT'S THEIR CONCERN. Like SeaRex said, there are people who both kill the animal for game but eat it also. AND IF WE KNOW BETTER NOT TO EAT MEAT, THEN WE MUST NOT BE THE TYPE OF ANIMALS, quote on quote "Scientist" think we are then.

OKAY, NO ONE SAID THAT ANIMALS ARE STUPID. THEY CAN THINK. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LEARNING, REASONING, AND INSTICTS!

ALso, the lactose intolerate thing is an example because there are vegetarians who don't drink milk from a cow.

ALSO, YOU CAN GET ALL THE NUTRIENTS YOU CAN WITHOUT PUTTING VEGGIES IN YOU MOUTH ALSO! YOU CAN GO BOTH WAYS. YOU can reach that homestasis

You've been doing so well recently, Pinky, but I guess you just had to resort to your old ways - if you can't win by reason, win by volume...

Jenni, don't try to reason with Pinky. I've tried. It's possible, but really not worth the hassle...

Originally posted by One, Two, Middlesboogie
Every meat-eating person in the western world is an accomplice to what happens in slaughterhouses.

Why doesn't that apply to the rest of the world?

Because, like tigers and wolves, people in third world countries don't have access to the same alternatives in their diet that we do.

Originally posted by Max the Mug
Some meat-eaters doubtlessly find vegetarianism disgusting.

I have to say that I have never met anyone who says this. I would like to, though, just to hear their reasons...

Okay, let me attempt to sum up the reasons for eating meat (for I believe the burden of justification lies with the meat-eater, just as it lies with the believer, the killer, the scientist, etc.):

1. It tastes nice.
Well, I can hardly rebut that, as it is purely a matter of personal taste. I personally find most meats disgusting; the only meats I used to like when I ate them (if I remember correctly) were pork, chicken, and fish. However, I can point out the extreme selfishness of that statement. I won't bother, though, as most of you seem completely aware of that, and don't seem to care. I despair sometimes...

2. I need it to live.
Bullshit. Unless there are extreme circumstances, humans can get by fine without the charred flesh of their fellow beings...

3. Humans have always eaten meat.
Humans have always killed each other, too. Doesn't make it right.

4. Other animals eat meat, so why can't I?
Lions, Foxes, and most other carnivores are UNABLE to survive on a vegetarian diet. Their teeth and digestive systems are not set up to digest it, and you won't find that many quorn burgers out in the woods... We, on the other hand, are FULLY CAPABLE of surviving on a meat-free diet. That is why I do not condemn other carnivores for their diet: They have no choice...

And apart from anything else, why does the fact that something is done by others make it right? Does the fact that Hitler (sorry, had to come up somewhere) killed 6 million people mean that it would be perfectly alright for you to do so?

5. SHUT UP SHUT UP YOUR STUPID AND IGNORANT AND YOU DON'T KNOW ME AND YOUR NOT MAKING ANY SENSE!
You are clearly Pinky. Go away.

There. The top 5 anti-veggie arguments neatly summed-up and rebutted. If any of you meat-eaters out there eat meat for any reasons not listed here, please tell me them, so I can rebut those as well. If you have no other reasons, then my work here is done.

EDIT:

Just thought of a couple more things to add:

http://www.oddworldforums.net/forums...ght=Vegetarian

http://www.oddworldforums.net/forums...ght=Vegetarian

Links to the old Meat arguments. So we don't end up repeating ourselves...

I'd also like to say that, despite how I may act here, I am not a Militant Vegetarian. I only act that way when confronted with Militant Carnivores...

Oh, and also an apology to Max. I would be perfectly happy to have a civilised conversation with you about the subject, but unfortunately I am unable to resist the temptation to wipe the floor with some of the morons in here (who shall remain nameless. Let us refer to them simply as "Miss P" and "Mr S"...). Maybe some other time...