[Holy Sock]

OWI are always throwing around meaningless words, AE is still a sequel.

I would agree with this, but in a game where story takes a backseat (and like it or not, it does), this isn't very significant. My points were about the gameplay.

I was just expressing my own opinion about the game there. And the story of Oddworld pretty much defines these games. Gameplay is obviously more important - it's a puzzle platformer - but the story be riding shotgun!

The more, of the same, puzzles, the merrier of the same puzzles? Yes, that is what I was referring to. I also don't think that the small variety in puzzles is enough to trump the fact that everything else is basically the same, and that's a good solid 1 and a half hours for a new player.

A joke my young friend! But I do think the variety of puzzles kept AE interesting. Reading your counterargument this is going to boil down to - you found this uninteresting or tedious - I didn't. Unless we really scrutinise each level I don't think it's going to progress much further - unless someone else weighs in with a good analysis of game structure, pacing and mechanics.

Ah, I knew this would be somebody's trump card. "But they added new concepts and new mechanics! Flying Sligs, Greeters and Mine Cars, oh my!"
Here the issue is not with the concepts but how they function as gameplay elements. They're fun for a while after they're introduced but quickly become the norm, and you realise that they aren't different or interesting enough to stay fresh, as the mechanics from the original did. In some cases, it's the opposite. Look at how many times we use Mine Cars. What, 3 times? They could have implemented them more in clever ways but they chose not to.
With Fleeches it's the opposite. They're used too much and quickly become infuriating, they're essentially just the bees from AO except you can kill them. I never liked them anyway so that's probably entirely subjective.

But what if I think they are? The cool thing about AE is that it introduces new elements but it doesn't overplay each one. The mine car is used in the Necrum Mines - and it's fun. Trying not to run over your Mudokon pals is interesting. But it isn't overplayed. And I don't think you could get much interesting mileage out of it beyond what was already in the game. Trying to get from point A to point B but getting out to solve a puzzle so you can move forward.

Blind Mudokons add a cool element in the beginning. Flying Sligs are introduced and Slying Sligs centric puzzles are used in Disc 2 - but not enough to become bland. A whole section of the game is used for fleech puzzles (which I like because they were tense) and Scrab and Paramite possession - but it's not exploited. Fart possession becomes a feature in FeeCo but I don't feel it's overplayed. Slig centric puzzles then become much more important. Greeters add an element of unpredictability but they're not overused in disc 2. And Glukkon puzzles are saved for the Brewery and "boss" levels.

I don't think any of these are overplayed features and the ones that are dropped early (sans the car) are used in secret areas in the latter parts of the game. As I said above this is just going to boil down to opposite opinions with the same evidence. The only concept that I feel was underused were the crying Mudokons and healing Sick Mudokons from brew/torture.

Yes, and this would be fine if it weren't for the fact that everything else is exactly the same. You go to a Paramite area in the wild, then you go to a Scrab area in the wild. Of course those are very vague ways of putting it, but you get what I mean. They could have done more interesting things with these creatures and the new mechanics they brought to them, like having more sections with them in industrial areas spread throughout the game as opposed to having dedicated segments for them. I think not only would it flow much better, but it wouldnt get stale nearly as fast. And hey, haven't you always wanted to see what happens when Paramites and Scrabs meet?

Sure. They could have. And it could have been more interesting. But, as the game stands, there's enough going for those posession puzzles that they hold up to replays and create new, interesting puzzles, with these creatures. It could have been more - but it's it still is more than a retread of Oddysee puzzles.

I never said they were.

"Oddysee is short and sweet. It doesn't continuously introduce new gameplay mechanics as frequently as AE does, but that's because it doesn't need to do that in order to keep the gameplay from becoming stale, something AE fails at (it's like Abe's Exoddus is trying to keep a child entertained by showing it new toys and tricks every two seconds, but they're all uninteresting and the baby just liked the key-jingling it was doing before)."

That's where I derived that from. But I suppose implementation is different than concept. So my mistake there.

For a first-time player who took 4 hours to beat Oddysee, I'd say it would take them at least 6-8 hours to beat Exoddus.
Not all areas overstay their welcome. I very much enjoy disk 2 up to the Brewery. It had what, 20-something Zulags? And that's not overstaying it's welcome?

Not for me. It felt like the finale of the game. Enough puzzles to cover almost everything you learned before. But not too much to get sick of it. It worked for me.

I partly agree with this, AE definitely is more detailed, though I enjoy the more isolated feel Oddysee has.
Oddly, I disagree with your point about Bonewerkz. I love the grim tone it has. Very much like AO, except more like a Victorian-era factory. It's probably one of my favourite looking areas.

There's just a real lack of variety. Plus I'm not a fan of the actual levels there. Although I like Phleg's KILLEMKILLEMKILLEMKILLEMKILLEMKILLEM puzzle.

This is precisely my problem with Exoddus, though. It's the game OWI wanted to make first. So they remade it and added the bits they left out in the first one. The small improvements made to the actual gameplay are trivial when you compare the two games, because in my opinion if Oddysee had those improvements it would be a perfect game. Abe's Exoddus has them, but it's almost like a 1 step forward, 2 steps back scenario.

AO's atmosphere was unlike anything else at the time, which is why it saddens me that AE went with a completely different approach. The result is that, AE is more dated and AO is timeless. I guess that's my conclusion.

Gotta disagree. Exoddus didn't go with a completely different approach at all. It all comes back to the plot - which is why I mentioned it first. Oddysee is all about the journey of a slave discovering his true power then overthrowing the powers that be. Which creates its own sense of mystery and discovery. Exoddus is really just an extension of that final act. But I think it tells it very well. Well enough that the weaker narrative significantly elevated and we get a much better sense of the world Abe inhabits.

And the fact that I really like Exoddus' story, and it's gameplay improvements over the original, is why I still replay it over the original.

Your problems with Exoddus simply being a bonus game rather than a proper sequel are not ones I share. Comparing what it could have been to what it actually is: Exoddus is still a great game - and holds up against the original. Not something you can so with Munch for instance.