[MA]

i really can't be fucking arsed to keep doing this. responding to you is beginning to feel like a chore. you seem to concentrate on the little things people get wrong and refuse to look at the big picture, which is what we're talking about. your concept is just all fucked up.

so forgive me for not wanting to type a huge bastard novel again, but i honestly don't see the point so i'll try and keep it short and sweet.

Maybe you're missing my point. The 'bad examples' you talk about are the ONLY ones I'm talking about, but what annoys me is that it SEEMS like a majority. I'm NOT tarring everyone with the same brush, and I've made some clear distinctions.

then make more distinctions, because all i can see is DOLE-SCUM R BAD. the mere fact you used that term isn't a good sign, anyway. it's a horrible term. no good whinging about people not understanding your point when you're the only one making these points, they all seem to express the same thing.

your whole argument needs more clarity, it's very confusing as to where your stance is, and how extreme it is. one minute you're saying that they're "everything that's wrong with the country", then that you're only concerned about the bad examples. but you didn't make that clear from the beginning. we can only go by what's put in front of us, so if you don't say it or it isn't clear, it's likely to get lost, forgotten or just go unnoticed.

Also, I've already addressed all of those 'additional points' which you listed. Let's see;

so really, you only have two qualifying points in your little list, and even those are not as simple as you make them out to be. different people and different situations can't just be lumped into separate categories. this isn't a game, this is life, and these are peoples lives. take off your black & white goggles and see the shit that we are in.
- I've already said that there are people in different situations. That was part of my argument throughout.

no it wasn't, not when i made that reply.

there's no effect if there's no cause. basically, something sparked this whole fiasco, and it escalated. when a person is unhappy, they will only take so much shit before they bite back. change that one unhappy person to a portion of a pissed off nation, and of course things are gonna fuck up royally. but why were they unhappy in the first place? why did it get to the point where they stepped outside the law? yeah, some people joined in for pathetic reasons and took advantage of the situation, but that's herd behaviour. it doesn't excuse their crimes, but it doesn't mean they are totally to blame for this grand shit storm either. open your eyes.
- You answered this one all by yourself. "A little fire can produce a lot of smoke too."

i never said "a little fire can produce a lot of smoke too". WoF said that, to you, and it was said after i made that point. my point was aimed at you also, and you didn't answer it, as did no one else. this is the first time you've acknowledged it, and have decided to answer it by recycling someone else's answer, once again.

sigh.

my point was that you can sit on your high horse for as long as you like, but the painfully obvious fact remains that we're all in the same boat. we all pay for these things, even those on the dole. you really are blinded by your own sense of superiority if you think for one nanosecond that people on the bottom rung of the social ladder have it easy.
- Yes, we all pay for these things. Except individuals in work have to pay higher taxes, and pay for things with their own money. And they have to work for that money. Like I said.

so what are you saying? that people out of work have it easier than those in work? what? i mean, maybe i'm just a fucking stupid cunt or something, because i don't have a bastard clue what you're trying to say, it's all contradictory. when i say that you're generalizing and/or judging many due to the actions of a few, you reply with something along the lines of "not all of them, just the bad ones". then when i say that the majority do not have it easy, you reply with something like "Except individuals in work have to pay higher taxes, and pay for things with their own money. And they have to work for that money", which means that you're once again judging them all for something they cannot help, which is either contradictory seeing as you say you're not judging them all in the same light, or completely void because it's something that can't be changed by the people in general, and yet you seem to be blaming them. you can't say you're only talking about a few, then pull something like that out which throws them all into the firing line again. where the fuck do you stand? what is your argument exactly?

More ad hominem. Fantastic.
- That wasn't ad hominem, that was a general point. Don't buy luxuries then complain that you're strapped for cash, because then you only have yourself to blame.

whatever it is, it's still bullshit. you can't base any sort of argument off "they buy things and then complain they have no money". who does this? Tom, Dick or Harry? does every single jobless person in the country do it? is it some kind of ritual? are they cast out if they don't spend all there money and then start moaning?

you talk such shit. so, by your reckoning, any jobless person that smokes and has tattoos will spend all their money on 'luxuries' and then proceed to complain about being skint. they are also prone to suddenly rioting, mugging, stabbing people to death and "tricking out their cars to look like shit", have no need for a vehicle and do nothing but sit on their arse all day.

wow.

how they spend their money is not your concern. a lot of these people are older and obviously wiser than you are, and yet you seem to want to treat them like they're all scammers, criminals or spongers. why? so what if someone pays for a tattoo? or smokes cigarettes? how in the grand fuck is that anything to do with you? you're stepping into oppression, here.
- I can't even believe this. It's nothing to do with oppression. My point is, don't splash out on a bunch of luxuries you don't need AND THEN EXPECT TO CONVINCE ME YOU'RE NOT GIVEN ENOUGH MONEY. I'm pretty sure I'd be broke too if I decided to buy a bunch of things I wanted in one month. But I wouldn't then be obnoxious enough to complain that I wasn't getting paid enough at work.

ARGH THEY ALL SPEND THEIR MONEY ON SHIT AND THEN COMPLAIN TO MEEE OH GOD OH GOD

again, you're treating certain peoples behaviour as if it's something they all have to do to qualify for being out of work. not everyone does this. see the couple of paragraphs above. god help me.

for the umpteenth time, you're judging a lot of people over the behaviour of a few. see what i mean? how can you say something like this, and then declare that you're only talking about the piss-takers? because there's piss-takers everywhere and in everything, they aren't rare and aren't exclusive to the unemployed. you make these loud, wild statements as if they're all to blame, when they're not. maybe you should just stop using these terrible 'examples' altogether, and come up with something that has a bit more substance.

but at the end of the day, you're talking shit and will not take 'no' for an answer. that isn't a debate, that isn't even an argument, that's someone who has no intentions of changing their stance at all, in the hope that we'll eventually start bargaining with them like some spoiled child in the supermarket. because, after all, you're right.
- I'd be happy to change my mind if someone brought up an argument compelling enough. It just hasn't happened yet.

UGH

i've been there, there is no pot of gold waiting for you at the end of each week.
- But was it bad enough for you to have to steal to support yourself? Would you consider the hardship to be extenuating circumstances for someone committing crime?

says the person who said in the very same post:

I've already said that there are people in different situations. That was part of my argument throughout.

does that answer your question?

it's disgraceful, to be honest, for you to think that you have the right, like some 'free pass', to be such a hard-nosed cunt when it isn't you that's struggling and you have such feeble reasons to support it.
- So I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Now who's flying into the zone of oppression? I could say exactly to same thing. What gives you such a right to criticise my point of view?

oh god, i knew that was coming.

i can criticize you all i want, because i disagree with you and that's my opinion. you can do the same just like everyone else. in my opinion, you don't have the clarity or basic understanding of unemployment and its differing situations to judge so harshly. anyone can do that, but are they listened to? no.

i can sit here and declare that all pubs should lower their prices, but i don't know nearly enough about their situation, therefore i don't have the basic knowledge or understanding and have no right to preach to them about how they should run their business, i just won't be taken seriously. it's exactly the same sort of thing. get it?

fuck this, i'm sick of having to explain basic concepts to you. the uses of a car, whether someone has the right to do something or not. i feel like i'm not making any mark on you at all and it's starting to get frustrating. you just keep on bulldozing through, i can't be fucking bothered.