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  #99  
05-28-2007, 10:59 PM
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Nate
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EDIT: Havoc, you're an absolutely terrible debator. You have to try and speak to people on their terms, rather than completely rubbishing their entire belief system. You've added nothing at all for PV to respond to because none of that effects his worldview.

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Evidence?
That they have little or no movement can be seen clearly on an ultrasound. That they are not self-aware is simply logical given that young fetuses do not have developed brains.

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Now you're just making up shit. You cannot be "pre-life" anymore than you can be undead or half alive. Fetuses are not dead. By process of elimination, they are alive. And since they are biologically human and alive, they are human.
Okay then; what do you call a sperm cell or an ovum? I would term them as pre-life, just as I would for a random bundle of cells in a womb or even a partially developed fetus.

Fetuses may be genetically human but they are not biologically human. A human does not have a tail. A human breathes through his or her lungs. I could go on.

In researching this, I read an interesting article by Peter Singer where he suggested that instead of referring to fetuses as 'human' or 'not human', to refer to them as a 'person' or 'not yet a person'. Of course a religious individual would claim that you become a person the moment that the soul enters your body at conception. Now, leaving aside the issue there of what percentage of a soul identical twins possess, you must understand that many people would disagree with that assumption.

Thus, you must stop putting the burden of proof on anyone else and instead prove to us that:
(a) Fetuses are biologically human
(b) Fetuses are conscious and have feeling
(c) Fetuses are people.

If you manage to do that without any "process of elimination" handwaving, I will be convinced and will never debate this with you again.

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You know, in retrospect, I and everyone else here are proving that I was correct in wanting to avoid a flame war.
I don't see this as a flame war. In fact, I'm not even trying to convince you to a pro-choice point of view. All I'm trying to get you to do is to justify your point of view, because I don't understand it.
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