[TheKhanzumer]

Who said anything about victims of society? Christianity is a black and white world in which the complexity of human life is rounded down into a simple system of reward and punishment. I'd think the motivation to do good deeds is more admirable in a non-Christian, who doesn't need the hope of heaven or the fear of hell to refrain from hurting people.

Yes Christianity is black and white. I am a black and white thinker. In my mind, there is good and there is bad. You can't be sort of bad but mostly good. A person has good qualities and bad qualities. Black and white is exactly the way I think and I can't stand the idea of grey. I guess this is the fundamental difference between our opinions. There are black and white thinkers and there are grey thinkers and neither can ever truelly understand each other. I don't understand how a grey thinker can have any opinions, because if one issue is grey wouldn't they all be? And I assume you think that black and white people are stubborn and won't listen to the facts. But that is not true. A black and white thinker can change what they think is black and what they think is white. I don't think simplicity devalues human life. It just makes things... simpler.

And I also think non-religious people who do good are more admirable than religious do-gooders because frankly I don't understand what their motivation would be. Without the hope of heaven what stops you from doing whatever you want? Your own special goodness that you made up and decided for yourself? I comend you for that. I know that people with different beliefs can both be good people, but I believe that only one of them can be right.

Since when did it become the job of the christians on the forums to decide what is morally correct when it comes to homosexuality?

Christians aren't deciding they should be informing. Look up 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 1:9-11 and Romans 1:26-27. Also, the only reason homosexuality is a "big deal" all of a sudden is because gays and lesbians are currently trying to get the world to accept what they do and have children taught that is normal. It isn't a worse sin than any other (in fact the Bible says that the sin God hates the most is lying, which pretty much makes everyone incredibly condemned). Sadly Christians usually roll over and let the veiws of the world weaken their convictions, which is why I am making this effort to stand firm when I could be outside playing soccer. Which doesn't sound that bad actually...

Anyway, i don't see why we should abstain. If we were allowed to get married would it be ok then? I've heard that its not the act of Homosexuality that Christians disagree with, but the fact they're not married thats the problem.

That is true for some people, but like a said earlier I believe marriage is only meaningful between a man and a woman. God created Eve to complete Adam because he was not good enough alone. Man needs woman to complete them and visa versa. I think that men and women should occupy equally important roles in society, but I think they should share different ones, especially in regards to the family.

And no, I'm not one of those people who thinks a women's place is in the kitchen. I think women have every right to an education and become a successful whatever they chose to do. I'm glad that our society recognizes their importance and intelligence.

Marriage is about two Souls coming together as one, regardless of the exterior (gender) the two Souls are the same as everybody elses and if marriage helps these Souls to meld together then we should be allowed to do just this. Our love shouldn't be allowed to go unshown.

I disagree. Men can love each other, but they can never have what a happily married for fifty years grandmother and grandfather have. Don't tell there isn't a difference. If homosexuality is really about love and not lust, then why can't you just abstain from sex? Why do you need marriage to tell the world about your love? Why? You don't need marriage and sex to express your love to each other and to the world. If so, then parents must not love their children, and siblings must not love each other. Unless of course you believe that incest should be accepted today... which is another topic.

On the whole having a homosexual parent thing, did he have a hard time because he, personally, disagreed with it? Or because society itself disagreed with it? In the wrong society a person can be beaten into a coma just because their father, brother, mother etc is a homosexual. In the right society, homosexual parents are treated like everybody else and treated correctly and respectfully.

It my opinion it doesn't matter. He might be okay with it now, but I think it is a safe bet he would rather have his father and moher both happily married to each other. As for society, nobody goes out of their way to tease him. In fact, most people try so hard not to judge they sometimes treat him with more respect than they would otherwise. I agree with what you say happens in a wrong society. But I believe in a right society, homosexuality wouldn't even exist and neither would lying, cheating, stealing, violence, hate, alcoholism, etc... It's a lot to ask for sure, but despite your opinions on all issues, the world WOULD be an easier place to live in if everyone shared the same beliefs. My liberal friends at school used to call me Hitler which was very unfair. There is a difference between wanting everyone to have blonde hair blue eyes and wanting everyone, no matter what their race, to believe in what everyone else they meet believes in.

Can't we all just get along? I wish so but I don't believe so. Sure we can all treat each other with the respect we all deserve, but when it comes right down to it everyone is different. I wish we were all spiritually the same, but since that is not possible I will try my hardest to share my views with others. Notice I did not say wanted to force others to change. But I will always share, and any change that results happened because the person always wanted it to deep down.



EDIT: In response to Alcar's comment about force-fed religion and brainwashing. First of all, I consider myself very lucky in the fact that both my parents, all my grandparents and most of my aunts, uncles and cousins are all the same religion as I am. Much of my family actually goes to the same church as I do and my grandpa is the preacher there. I have not been forced to go to church though. I wasn't baptized until recently when I decided I wanted to be. I have chosen to follow the beliefs of my family and if I chose not to, they would be disappointed in me, but they would also let me. I have grown up in a Church whos members have include people of all ages and ethnic groups, asians, africans, whities like myself and latin americans. We have also had members who were ex-child molesters, reformed drug users, divorced families, porn addicts and a guy who had an affair with at least two other men's wives. We are, needless to say, a very tolerant congregation. But that does not mean we change the values taught in the Bible to whatever is convenient to us. We do our best to follow the Bible and teach it to others. I'm on a tangent... The point is, I would never jump off a building or whatever because my grandpa said so. I have a lot of respect for him, but he and no other preacher, is an inspired messanger from God. I know what the Bible requires of me, I have studied it and have chosen that I want to live my life according to its guidlines. If my whole Church and family decided to commit suicide to get to heaven sooner I would not. I know they would probably go to Hell (God makes the final judgement though) and that what they are doing is wrong according to the Bible. I am not brain washed. Brain washing is for weak people with no real convictions who do whatever is convenient at the time while thinking they are right. I chose how I wanted to live.

I know you were joking Alcar, but I wanted to make a point. I'm not holding anything against you.