Gene Robinson:The First Gay(well, openly gay) Bishop
 

Gene Robinson was recently sworn in as an Episcopalian Bishop. Normally this wouldn't bother me, but it turns out that Gene is openly homosexual. What I think is VERY ODD about this was that Mr. Robinson had a divorce while he had two children so he could live with his partner, Mark Andrew. Also, the Episcopalians might let women hold authority over men as priests and are a more "liberal" than WELS(Pretty hardline in my opinion.) I would have never thought they would allow a gay in their church, much less let him become a bishop. The Episcopalian Church has said numerous times that homosexuality is an evil sin and incompatible with the Scriptures so why such a dramatic turn of events?

Because people in the church are too being influenced by sin. But homosexuality is a sin aganst God. It is something Man has created for his own personal pleasure. That is all I will say:D

I dont think its the case of the act of homosexuality being a sin, i've watched many programmes were they discuss this and one of the main points the Church bring up is the fact that homosexuals cannot be married and are thus dancing in sin. But then that makes me ponder, if they were allowed to get married then would it be less frowned upon?

I wouldn't call it 'dramatic'. Many of the "badness" that the scripture had previously stated have been overlooked. I dont see why homosexuality should be any different...

It would have been cleverer to say that Nature has created it to stop over-population...

Finally a decent topic, lets hope that people will contribute with substantial, thought out arguments and not be intimidated by my b*stardization...

First of all, you can't use Intelligent design lingo to describe what you would concede to be a random act. Nature isn't something that can create, it doesn't exsist. Replace Nature with Gaea or drop that talk. This reminds me of the cliche "Yesterday's heresy is tomorrow's dogma."
I really object to the fact that the man was married and had a divorce, essentially deserting his wife and two daughters. Imagine what school must have been like! I can't imagine the savage tauntings and gossip that they must have endured.
And whether you think homosexuality is evil or not has no effect on what the Bible says about. It frequently lists it is a sin and even goes so far as to ban practicing homosexuals or lesbians from entering Heaven.

Nature created Chickens [and many others] through evolution. Its reasonable to believe that nature also created homosexuality to stop the ever growing population from using up all resources and such. Otherwise what would be the point in gay animals...? If people are going to say its a choice and such then they're going to have to say why animals "choose" to be gay.

If the world didn't have such nasty bitter people who dislike homosexuals to the extent that they would fire them, beat them up and call them names then maybe he would have accepted what he was ages ago without fear of persecution and thus not get married, causing himself and others a great deal of stress...

I haven't heard of the story but if he hasn't left them and does want a relationship with them of some sort then its not "deserting". I would have presumed that his wife would have deserted him and not want to see him again, which is cruelness towards him...

The tauntings and the like are all down to homophobics. In the end its your kinds fault for invoking such spiteful behaviour that can hurt not only decent homosexuals but also the children of these people. In the end if they loved their father they wouldn't care what he was and they would defend him. In a perfect world the other children wouldn't have no qualms with it, i know i wouldn't...then again, i've chosen my own path and not the ones my family layed out for me...

The Bible being a highly flawed book. If your going to obey one rule then why not obey them all?

It lists many things as sins. And besides, i'm sure they would get into "Heaven" since "God" accepts and forgives everyone. Regardless of the shtuffs they've done/haven't done...

Its a sin because God created a Man and a Woman. And that Man and Woman are suppose to mate or have sex and produce offspring to continue the human species. God did not put a human on earth to mate with his own sex thats not natural. In my opinion homosexuality is a lust. Some human being in one time period just started doing that and it has become a fetish among those whome do. What I am saying is you will see when it comes time just wait. Homosexuality does not regulate population there is something that comes natural that does that and its called death. Death is what regulates our population. Your born and then you die. In batween is life. When the population is overly crowded then poof goodby population. Thats when extinction occures. And beleave it or not we are due for another Ice age! Scary:eek:

Now this is all I will say about that:D

ya know what i saw that is "conserving resources"
a farmer running from a lovestruck donky cause the farmers pants where down and soon the donkey was on top of him
now that is gross!!!!! eeeeeeeeeewwwwww!!!!

and a known anti-homosexuality saying :God created adam a eve!, not adam and steve!

The world is getting weirder and weirder....

amen brother, amen

I'm sorry I'm not schooled up on boring crap but isn't this "Gaea" something out of the Final Fantasy movie?

Okay. A little off topic but here is a question that has plagued me for some time:
Was either "Adam" or "Eve" black? If not then how do black people exist?
While on the topic of "Adam and Eve" I remembered another:
Is inbreeding a sin? Think about it.

Then why is there starvation in countries because of overpopulation?

Sun tanned to black, evolution...
Inbreeding no sin i think.. there are several cases in bible in which there was inbreeding...

We don't know if Adam or Eve were Black but the Cradel of civilisation is the Middle East. Therefore the First Man and Woman were probabaly Middle East origen that is more brown like. The only explanation on how we got different colors is a natural occurence that probabaly happened almost a million years ago. At one time. Adam and Eve were the first Man and Woman but then obviously they had children and they had children and somewhere down the line when the Human race was becoming really big it split into different races. I guess you can say it just happened. My theory is that it was our movement or nomadic movement across the world where we got our colors. For instance Middle East people look as if they are sort of a neutral color. I bet at one time these people decided split up from each other and some would go North where as others would go South, and then some would go east and others would go west. So we did and as time went on the colors just naturally grew in us. All we know is that God works in mysterious ways. We don't understand how he did it and we will understand when we die. Till then we can only theory or speculate.

Inbreeding? I don't know but ask yourself this question "Is inbreeding something that is natural and I mean something that came from nature? Or is it something artificial that we created for are own wants or needs?


And for the third one you've answered your question. Starvation is a form of death or mass death. It too is regulateing the Human race. Its unfortunate yes but its the enevitable none the less. In overpopulated areas resources are used up which then causes starvation. And the Governments are not helping the situation they are makeing it worse.
Overpopulation could result in the extinction of the Human race.

The means of death is through war, famine, Starvation, natural disaster, and many more. We are seeing it happen right in front of our eyes. This is more or less a slow process until something big happens and the whole world is effected.

And lastly a sin is a sin. True you go steight to Hell when you sin but thats when God is not part of your life. but when you ask God for forgivness and ask him to be in your heart and that you accepted him then you are guaranteed eternal life even when you sin you are still guaranteed eternal life. Think of a gift you recieve at Christmas. You can't return a gift after you accepted it.

God knows we are imperfect and helps us live right when we accept him and he knows we will fall again even after we accept him. But when we ask him he will pick us up and send us down the right path in life. But we will sin and keep on commiting sin its only our imperfectness. He will keep on streightening us out. But when you accept God in your heart you already have the gift of eternal life wether you sin or not you still have that gift. Any Christian knows that. There is no turning back. Earth is pretty much a lesson to be learned created by God more or less.

Oh, I wish Pinky was still here. She was so funny. Now...

I wouldn't know about that, but Gaea is esentially the believe that the world is self-regulating. We can see examples of this on the small scale - when we're cold, we shiver, when we're hot, we sweat. We can regulate ourselves. We spelled it 'Guia' when we were studying it. We didn't study it much, so what I'm thinking is that maybe it's the belief that Guia is a sentient force behind nature. I'm not sure, but I'm not interested really. Try Google.

Basically, yeah. Wherever humans originated, their skin would have been suited to that environment, so if that was in Africa where the oldest human remains have been found, the apes that evolved into humans would have had dark skin to begin with. As humankind expanded into new territories, their skin would have adapted, become more pigmented to cope with a harsher sun, less pigmented if there was no need for it. Of course I've based my idea on science, which is what I believe in.

True, but you've missed the point. If death actully did regulate the population, there would be no overpopulation in the first place.

Due? Ice ages aren't moments on the pendulum of time, you can't predict them in the same way you can predict a sequence of numbers. I'd be very surprised if there was another ice age coming, because believe it or not, Earth is coming out of a minor ice age right now. That's why the Earth is heating up, not because of all this global warming rubbish.

Now, I've just heard on the radio about another gay piece of news in Christianity, although the details I can give you are sketchy because I was only half listening. Apparently some guy has written a book of prayers specifically for gays. Which is nice.

Not to try and reign over your beliefs, but doesn't creating a man and a woman simply mean that God's done the bare minimum of work needed to create more humans and nothing more? Obviously he couldn't simply create a same-sex couple, because they wouldn't be able to reproduce.

Thats why death is the deturant when the population is or has become over populated through the form of starvation or something else to reduce the the size and numbers. So what I said was true from a certain point of view.

I am not saying that the population grows. It most certainly grows but when it gets out of hand thats when things get bad.

Tiddly-Peeps...!!
 

Adam and Eve weren't married either [from what i recall]. So doesn't that mean they're going to Hell?

Thats all very well, but why would somebody put themselves in a category, were they will most definatly be ridiculed by some social sludge and be persecuted against, and be open about that choice just to fulfil a lust? You don't see paedophiles being overly open about their sexual habits do you? So why would somebody choosing to be gay etc put themselves in a position to be persecuted just for a mere bit of lust? I dont know if any of that made sense...



Hehe, thats what i used to say when i was all closetted "I'M NOT GAY...i just have a penis fetish."

I love it when y'all say that, cos it makes me want to see all y'all faces when/if you're proved wrong...

I believe that it would do if it wasn't seen as such a "bad, sick thing". I'd go as far to say that 20-30% of the world is gay or has unfulfilled gay desires. If we embraced those feelings then that would be a mass of people not having children thus more resources available and such...

No, when the population is overly crowded it moves on to other areas to accomodate its growingness...

"God" also made incest. He marked Cain for death and he exiled Eve [i believe it was her, could have been Adam] from Eden, seperating her from her true and only love. Just because he does something doesn't mean he's correct. Besides, if it wasn't for Lucifer and Sin then the world would be screwed anyway, because when Lucifer and Sin conceived, the give life to Death. And Death, as PA stated, is keeping everything in check...

Well, animals mate with their siblings so i'm thinking nature created it. But then again, humans have the power of reason and are capable of differentiating between good and bad...and giving Birth to mutant, defected sludge due to incest is not exactly sinless is it?

You can't live life without sinning, so why did "God" create a world were we can't live un-sinfully...?

Over 90% of the population are going straight to Hell then, how thooper...

Lol, yes you can...

I thought that Gaia, or however its spelt, was the Earths soul. I dont know if it has anything to do with Wiccan, but i know that apparently once you die you go back into Gaia, can someone please tell me if the above is based on a game or something because i cant help wonder if the person telling me this was taking the piss, lol.

In the past "God" showed us that he existed, beit through balls of fire from the sky or other random occurances, why is he not doing it now? Wouldn't all that shtuffs help his cause now...? In a time of mass sinness...

On another note, i think its good to have faith. But having your life ruled by a book is abit out there...and, potentially, dangerous. Having it as a guide book is fine...anything more is dangerous.

There is no population explosion. In fact, many countries such as America and Russia are not producing enough babies to keep the populations constant. The average age of a person in this world is rising dramatically and it doesn't look like it will stop. What this means is that the young kids today will be absolutely screwed when they grow up since the yhave to pay for ridiculous government programs to help the geezers. I shudder to think what kind of Hellish planet our generation's children will be in for!
I really object to Gene Robinson ordination as a bishop for 2 reasons
He divorced a faithful wife and abandoned 2 children to have a homosexual affair.
He is a homosexual bishop. That ain't right. I know that certain segments of the population accept homosexuals but THE CHURCH? The Episcopalians do a lot of things I object to like spreading false teachings about Holy Communion and ordaining women as priest but homosexuality! It's absurd! To even allow him in the congregation is a discrace much less hire him as a bishop!

Do you have proof that he "abandoned" them? I mean really, just because the guys a fag doesn't mean he's abandoning his children does it? I know many people...well...ok, maybe not many...just people who have homosexual fathers/mothers. They still stay with their daughters/sons.

I'm presuming your Christian and thus theres no point in argueing with you over a gay Bishop, although i don't see why its such a problem. If he has experience or is qualified enough then i dont see what his private life has to do with anything...

Well, people in the Episcopalian Church could be corrupted(Yeah, I know you could care less, but think about it) They will think "Hey, Robinson's a fag and he gets to be a church leader! Why can't I be gay?" It's like what Jesus said, that little bit of yeast can leaven a whole lot of bread! Also, if they church bans something I should think they wouldn't let someone who does what is banned be such an important and prominent leader, or even in the church! It is tantamount to letting a drunkard or a womanizer be a leader.

What do you mean by corrupted? I'm presuming you dont mean they will suddenly become gay...because that is really a laughable argument...

Well, if they're heterosexual then thats why they cant be gay...

Yes, "Jesus" also stated man should do what he desires so long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Or something along those lines. And last time i checked Homosexuality doesn't hurt anybody to the extent of going to the Abyss for practicing it...

Well, they can quite happily un-ban them cant they if thats the attitude. PA was going on about sinning and how you can be forgiven if you let God into your life. The Church will merrily accept paedophiles, rapists and murderers into the Church but as soon as it comes down to homosexuals or transgendereds they ban them. In other words condemning them to Hell...which is thus stopping people from going and loving "God"...which is then condemning themselves to Hell. So in the end we're all gonna be getting rather nice tans, whether y'all like it or not. If a gay or a trans wants to worship "God" i dont see why any person can stop them...although this above paragraph is a kind of digression, it still brings up some naughty Christianness....you baaad people...

Edit:
Just thought i'd add this bit, dunno why...i think i said somewhere about Lucifer misleading Eve, which, if this is to be taken into account, is wrong as it was Gader'el...

'Gader'el - "he who showed the children of the people all the blows of death, who misled Eve, who showed the children of the people (how to make) the instruments of death (such as) the shield, the breastplate, and the sword for warfare, and all (the other) instruments of death to the children of the people"'

I really don't think anyone wants inbreeding. Not to mention needing it.

A lot more points I could make but the more I read the more I forgot.

Jesus Christ wasn't an Abba Father guy and his main message certainly wasn't "Hey, kids, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't piss people off!" He was a firebrand who railed against the leaders hypocrisy and preached a revolutionary philoshpy that would free the enslaved masses and bring them to God and reality. Like Neo but without the bullet time.
When I said corrupted I didn't mean everyone will spontaneously become gay. I meant that they will become desensitized to sin and GRADUALLY fall away as a result of this man's impious sacreligious behavior.

Precisely my point. And dictating how people should live isn't being free. I understand that we all need rules but when you say "Dont do...blah-blah" and 'blah-blah' is something that doesn't hurt anyone at all and doesn't affect anyone then it becomes borderline tyranny...

So long as they keep everything in perspective i dont see the problem. The Church is already falling what with the clergy dabbling in paedophilia so i find it abit hypocritical that, when they're doing something dastardly wrong and outrageous, for them to turn to somebody who is gay and say;

"You can't do that, you're a sinner. Get out of the Church, your kind isn't wanted here..."

The bible is not the book of god, and I would therefore happily burn it knowing that I wasn't disrespecting anything other than a bunch of publishers making money off of religion.

The mere fact that during certain times religion was such a figure of power leads me to beleive that the bible was manipulated to make people beleive whatever the kings and queens of the time wanted them to. Because people feared God. But we have since learned that in the Christian faith, God is not a figure to fear. Jesus himself teaches forgiveness to readers of the bible, of a prostitute, who wept at Jesus's feet begging forgiveness. But in the bible, it marks prostitution as an act of unforgiveable sin. Also, at the time the bible was compiled, Gays were seen in society with ignorance, but times have changed.

I think the main thing is, that Gays are not Gay because thats what gives them sinful pleasure, its because they see males as the object of their desires.
Gay men and women love other Gay people of their same sex. And its LOVE that the bible teaches, that and forgiveness. Whatever makes the world a better place. So ask yourself this, do you really beleive that banning gays from the same rights as hetrosexuals, and treating them as sinners will make the world a better place? Personally I don't think so, I think it will just mean that there will be one more thing to hate and despise.

4ourth.

Jacob, if you want to comment on what the bible says, please have biblical evidence. Also, some of your evidence is invalid. "God created incest?" No, he didn't, mankind created that mess.

But I love the quote "God created Adam and Eve, and not Adam and Steve!" (ROFL)

I have nothing against gays but tell me, what's so tasty about two men licking each others hairy butts?

And 4ourth...What?! Were did you get that information from?

4ourth, have to say that is one of the most offensive things i'ce ever read. I mean just because i'm not a Muslim doesn't mean i have to tell people to burn the Qu'ran. If that's your view, and you knew it would offend others you just shouldn't have said it that's all.........

Forgive me for believing that Adam and Eve were brother and sister. But even if they weren't "God" placed the children of Adam and Eve in a position were they would ultimatly be forced to breed with each other to start life...

I don't see whats so funny about that? Really, i don't. For someone who stated i have alot of growing up to do, it's abit hypocritical for you to laugh at something so immature and pathetic.

Don't be sexist. Whats so tasty about two women performing Cunnilingus? Anyway, to answer your question whats so wrong with it? If a man does anal with a woman, he's considered "macho". If he does it with a guy, he's mocked and called 'shit stabber'. Why? There's no difference between a man and a womans anus. Besides, whats so "tasty" about a man performing oral on a woman?? And Pinky, when you meet people, be them gay or straight, you're not supposed to ponder what their bedroom activities are.

Hobo, i believe 4orths point was a very valid one. The Bible is not the book of God, but published by chosen Apostles of that time. So, basically they could have implemented all views they had in the Bible and basically said it was Gods word. Which means the Bible has much religious value as 'The KKK's guide to religion'

wow. there is so much here I don't even know where to start.

ok, gays int he church. As Bob Dylan once said, the times they are a changin. The world is a very different place than 2000 years ago. Sure, the same beliefs and morals may be held, but with the population busrt in the last 200 years or so, we ahve to come to grips with each other. The church, the Catholic church is an institution has political and social power of people all over the world. The various sects that branch off practice sermons and all that basic church stuff the same way practically, but they don't follow the pope, or they allow priests to marry, etc. If being gay, indulging in your personal desires is a sin, then genocide is is jsut as worse....much worse. If you don;t know hwat I am talking about, read about the Aztecs, the Incas, the Trail of Tears, and all those tribes who were annihilated withint a week on the islands of the Carribean.

Someone said that the Cradle of Civilization was int he Middle East. Actually, it is in Africa. The Bushmen of Africa are considered one of the oldest peoples to some social anthropologists. Humans migrated out of Africa int opthe MIddle East, and then into Australia, Europe and Asia, eventually coming down to the Americas.

Science tries to answer the same questions as religion does. Where we came form? How did we come to be the dominant species we are today? What is our future as humans? if God was the first mover, then He caused the Big Bang and created the universe especially for humans. Maybe. We do not know. Evolution is a well proven theory; adaptaion can be witnessed by the eye in places like the Galapagos Islands. God provides species of animals a chance to develop anatomically better. I mean, no one knows how evolution completely works, or why it works. What causes it to work? Him?

Getting back to the Christianity....it is a very holy belief that anyone should practice. Howeve,r there are fanatics, jsut like in any mass religion who take the teachings of a creed to an unnecessary level and use it to their own needs mostly. LIek these televangelists. They are evil. They use the Bible to make money. You can be saved for a small fee, just sign your name and give up your credit card number. It is ridiculous how these people are really robbing others in the name of God.


It is too hot to type any further. Thank you and have a good night.

*Dances around to 'No one knows' by Queens of the Stoneage*

It's funny cause it's true.

Same scenario with two females. I mean, what's the joy of having sex with the same sex? It's like sexing yourself. If a man and a women do it, that's different when lesbians or homosexuals do it.

I agree, that was not fair 4ourth.

No offense, but what 4ourth said was pure blasphemy. The bible is a book of God. God told the apostles what to write. The apostles were not there when God created teh heavens and the earth I mean c'mon. Also, how can you remember everything that happen to you 10 years ago in exact order? Can you Jacob and 4ourth? I can't.:rolleyes:

Oh yes they were married.

No, evolution is true...not some imaginary friend that all the religious people have. And besides, that's one of the oldest, most unoriginal things that has ever been uttered by narrow-minded people. Please make up something new...at least we don't support incest because of a book...

lol @ 'sexing'. My bro says that...he's 7. Anyway, no its not. Having intercourse with your twin is like 'sexing' yourself...having intercourse with someone of the same sex is not...do you see?

I'm assuming thats in reply to my anal argument. In which case...how is it?

It was a good point, don't start going on about fairness...your kind aren't exactly the right people to complain.

No it wasn't. It was an immensly good point.

No, the Bible is said to be the book of God. How do you all know it is? You all skip along stating that but how can you be so sure? The only thing that states it is the book of God is the Bible itself...thats like 'The KKK's guide to religion' stating 'We are the TRUE guide to religion'

Yes...ok...how do you know?

I'm assuming they left that part out of the Bible? Besides...it still means God created incest.

And another thing, back in the day, God was all "GRAAARRR" and wrathful...if somebody didn't believe in him he rained fire down upon them etc. Or he would prove that he was real. Why doesn't he do that now? Surely in a world were over 90% of the population are sinners (and that figure is going to inevitably grow) he would do something to get some more people to believe in him.

By the by, it would make more sense that God was a female...females being the bearer of life and all...and God apparently doing such that.