Vykkers or Glukkens?
 

Glukkens are not evil they are just confused. I believe we are going to see them change as time moves on. They might actually find their ancient lagacy. A while back in the old Oddworld web site I read in the universe section about the glukkens and their past and how that all happen. And it said something about how they are slowly recovering from what they are as we know them now. So we might see them become good again. Maybe not through the quintology but through the different seris.

Now Vykkers they are evil. I mean we havent heard of anything about the Vykkers past. We don't know if they lived in an era of piece with the land and the creatures like the glukkens did once long ago. So I don't think they were once pieceful people. Maybe we are missing something here? Like maybe another reason why the glukkens gone bad other than them thinking they were the chosen ones and not the mudokins were because the Vykkers. What if some how after the glukkens started hateing Mudokins they did not know how to get back at them? So they went to the Vykkers to get back at the Mudokins. It's the Vykkers faught for providing the teachnology in which a lot of the glukken facilities have. I mean Vykkers make everything for the glukkens from Fat driven Trains to slig pants. Well I don't know about Fat driven trains but mostly everything. Maybe the Vykkers are some how minupulating that anger in the glukkens.

Where at first it wasant something of a true concern for the Mudokin race. But now it is because Glukkens are no longer primative. They are constantly relient on Vykkers to provide their empire. I think Vykkers are some how minipulateing glukkens in some way. Which makes the Vykkers the real threat to Oddworld. Not the Glukkens. I don't know just a thought!:fuzblink:

Re: Vykkers or Glukkens?
 

Glukkons put wealth above all other values, and I don't think they are the least bit confused. I don't know if that comports with the definition of evil, but it's bad enough for me. I have yet to see a single redeeming value in a glukkon.

Edit: Oops, I forgot; they're really sharp dressers.

The reason why we don't see any change yet is because they are slowly becomeing what they once were again. I don't know? But we are defenitly going to see something happen.:fuzblink:

hmmmmmm Abe's biggest dream: Glukkon stop to be evil.

yes, glukkons aren't bad by nature... but Vykkers are

This all depends on what you view being 'good' or 'bad' or 'evil'. Obviously, what the Glukkons and Vykkers are doing is bad. It's controversion as to whether this kind of activity really needs to take place on Earth, but they are bad things.

However, we've already established that Glukkons are not evil. This is probably because Lorne himself says so. Think of it this way: the Glukkons are not responcible for their ancestors' actions. As far as they're concerned, they're selling products to the Khanzumerz, which, to them, is good. They're also providing jobs for unemployed Mudokons and Kintos. Okay they're not good, but they're most certainly not evil.

Now to Vykkers. Vykkers enjoy inflicting cruelty upon poor defenceless creatures (preferrably cute ones). However, five year old children do the same (in Blue Remembered Hills they do, anyway), and of course a human that young does not fully understand how life and death works, and haven't quite reached the stage where they can feel for other people. It is entirely possible that this condition is a terminal attribute associated with Vykkers - they don't realise that the critters are living things and really do feel very bad about their treatment. Plus of course, they're finding cures for Oddworld's importand inhabitants (such as lung cancer) and manufacturing drugs that everybody needs (laxatives are essential to good living). Vykkers are not evil either. Their actions may be, but their minds are not thinking on that plane.

In fact, all creatures on Oddworld are not evil - the exception being Khanzumerz. I know I haven't explained that well enough, but I'm not in the right frame of mind today.

Remember Vykkers have 120 years lifespan... and they act as kids of 5 ? with all that time I suppose they can understand the principe of death/life

Trouble is you're applying human terms to these creatures. They're not humans, even though they speak English (or whatever).

While 120 years is probably just the same on Oddworld as it is on Earth, doesn't automatically mean Vykkers have the brains to understand such philosophical concepts as sentiency in other species. They love each other deeply, and understand their brothers. But I don't think they understand that other creatures do have real feelings. They're self-centred and specist - but that's just them.

hmm so...
...so we never will see some Vykker psycologist: ouf!

they are some anymal with brains who are not so developaded as our ones. they run a little with instincts but are in the buisness world. a middle creature

Think of the typically stereotypical geek...he's brainier than anyone else, but cannot for the life of him (or her, of course) go outside and spend time with people. Stereotypically speaking, these geeks get less social the smarter they are.

In a similar way, the Vykkers are great at 'knowledge', but really can't identify with other species. Besides, why would they want to, exept to make more Moolah to spend on more entertainment and research.

It all depends on your priorities. The Vykkers see what they do as essential work, producing products that the inhabitants of Mudos needs/wants. They see themselves as justified in doing what they do. Same with the Glukkons.

the fact that they autoreproduce them self can have a consécence on they point of view of life/death.

no ?

I read a few years ago on the old oddworld site that in the distant past mudokons (when they used to have power) thought of themselves as the chosen ones because the moon had a crater shaped like their paw. Because they thought they were superior, they treated other creatures, including Glukkons, badly. Thus when the Glukkons got themselved some power, they used it to enslave the mudokons as revenge.

Oh, and Vykkers are just as moolah-obsessed as the Glukkons. remember the FMV with Humphrey and Irwin - "More Moolah!"

Hi Nate_dog_woof (tee hee...), and welcome to the forums!

That's an interesting propaganda in which if that were true, than a whole other viewpoint would be required to see Mudokons fighting back the Glukkons. Maybe that was an original concept-storyline?

Sooooooooooo
 

I think vykkers are evil because they were probably brainwashed by some eviler force....or mabye their just angry cause they reproduce with themselves.




Glukkons are really frickin cool
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Hey Max, firstly I would like to say your knowledge of Oddworld is truly amazing. I think you are the coolest person on the forums. Secondly I would like to ask what makes Khanzumerz evil? If Vykkers and Glukkons aren't evil, what is? And how about sligs? I think you might wan't to rethink your statement that no creatures on Oddworld are evil. Just becuase they think they are doing good, dosn't mean they are. :fuzconf:

Sligs are just stupid
vykkers sadic
Kanzumers, we don't know

Evil? Why?
 

There needn't be evil creatures in a game. Actually, games without evil tend to be much deeper in plot line, which I think Oddworld is. Afterall, imagine USA + Russia - they considered each other pure evil for a while because they have completely different views of the world.
I don't think a sentient being is able to be 100%ly evil, as it would get boring.

Hmm. Just my five cents worth.

The only information from OWI we have (proably leeked, possibly misleading) on Khanzumerz says that they are the true evil on Oddworld. All the other Industrial creatures simply do what they think they should, and are 'innocent'.

We've found another one of those Oddworld issues that is entirely centred around your owns views. What do you consider evil? If Esso (ExxonMobil in the US) honestly didn't know they were wearing away the ozone layer, would that mean they weren't evil after all (that's just an example - Esso does know what it's doing, it's even ribing governments to keep in business)?

True, the Glukkons are destroying Oddworld nature at a phenomenal rate. But do they realise that? Does the Glukkon imagination even comprehend the idea of planets and ecosystems? Maybe they did, millennia ago, but hundreds of generations later they've evolved to serve the Khanzumerz. I'd call that innocent (although I'd go and have a word with them if I weren't so spineless).

Vykkers, too, don't understand that other beings can suffer. If they realised that, perhaps even felt it first hand under the effects of a Supernatural Spooce Cannon, perhaps they would think twice before finding new creatures to test their top-secret fabric softener on. In Roman Times (on Earth, obviously), the Romans, by today's standards, were racists. But racism, as a concept, wasn't about at those times, so how could they be violating it?

Sligs, well, they hardly seem the creatures to care whether or not they're 'wicked'. I doubt they're tiny minds can understand anything that doesn't offer them weapons or legs.

Khanzumerz are a totally different kettle of fish (I don't think I got that expression right) - we haven't seen them yet, we hardly know anything about them. What we can tell is that they're consumers and tourists, whose demands for tastier Tasty Treats, more efficient fossil fuels and safer laxatives have pushed Vykkers and Glukkons into the outwardly evil creatures we have today. In my opinion, that's not good, that's not innocent. They don't appear to have any motive - they're not selling top-quality goods at low, low prices, and they're not implementing research to uncover the secrets of safer drugs. As far as we know they're just greedy, and want what they want.

Yes, even though I consider them wicked, I do think they deserve safer drugs and good-quality products. Everyone does, as long as justice is served. If I could, I'd want Glukkons and Vykkers to sort themselves out, cos they weren't aware of the damage they were doing. Khanzumerz, I find it hard to imagine that they are totally oblivious to the world around them.

Like I said before, we don't have much to go on. Perhaps I am leaning all my evidence on one small nugget of probably-misleading information. I'm not going to change my views just yet. Abe's got a long way to go until he finally reaches the big cities, and we can finally see the Khanzumerz, whoever or whatever they are, at work and play, assuming they work and play, and don't just sit around being comfortable and evil.

And hello The Khanzumer. I can see I'm going to have be ever-more alert of what I'm saying. It's good to have fellow fans who can think on the same level as you (not that any Oddworld fans at all are bad in any way, of course).