Abortion
 

What are you views on it? My friend had one.

I think abortion is wrong, unless the bub is going to have severe deformities that would impare its quality of life. Just getting an abortion because you were too lazy to use contraception is unfathomably selfish.

Well said Sydney.

Also, I was reading a couple of stories on abortion and some poems too. One girl, had abortion because she could'nt take care of it. That's so selfish! Why does'nt she give it up for adoption? Abortion is wrong and inhumane and the people who think death penalty is wrong but abortion is right, are hypocrites.

I mean, you are killing a child. It's not just a fetus. Fetus in latin means "Little one" that's all. It's not just a cell. I mean, who knows what those kids could have been. They could of found a cure for AIDs, breast cancer or any other diseases. Did we kill off those future scientist? Or doctors?

I've seen what they done to those babies. They would cut them, burn them or kill them by taking pills. Sometimes they would use scissors to cut out the brain and the heart too. I would show you some pics, but they are too sad and graphic.

There's a poem too, It was so sad. I want you guys to read it if I could find it.

It is a murder, and not a neutral action it is a violent course. Even in the case of rape and incest the baby should never die. Let the fathers and mothers be punished for their sins, don't make a baby the scapegoat. When it comes right down to it, we were all just"clumps of cells", we were all unborn yet living beings, so it is murder. The babies ae humans and alive, this has been proven beyond scientific doubt. As early as 5-6 weeks a baby can have thoughts and emit brainwaves. It is basic biology that a cell is alive. And with using clumps of cells, how about stop ****ing around with stem cells and use something that makes the cells but has them grow at a stable rate so people don't become whakked up by the cell's fast growth rate. Every year thousands of umblical cords and placentas will go into cold storage, never to be used again thjough they are an easily available and abundant sorce of these cells, adult stem cells and bone marrow cellscan be harvested but nobody gives a shit about that evidently. And if women who become pregnant after one night stands are so ''in control'' of their body, why not say"Honey, heres a condom and some spermicide, you know what to do" It is murdering to abort a baby and if somebody doesn't realize that they have been delude by the pro choice to commit infanticide movement and politicians who silvertongue gullible people on this issue for brownie points and popularity

I seem to be alone here in being in support of Abortion. I think it should be entirely up to the mother whether or not she carries the baby for the full term or not.

1. "Abortion is murder"

No, it isn't. You are killing something that is unable to think or feel. It is alive, yes, but it is not conscious, and is definately not human. Most animals we (well, you) eat for food think more than your average embryo.

2. "Abortion prevents the possible birth of a Doctor or some other great person"

The same argument could be used against the use of contraceptives. The same argument could be used to justify having sex at every opportunity, for crying out loud... ["Not tonight, honey, I don't feel like it..." ~ "But what if by not having sex tonight, we prevent the birth of a great Doctor?"]

Some more points:

1. Don't refer to the Foetuses and Embryos as "Babies". It is inaccurate and misleading. By the time the Foetus gets to the stage of even resembling a baby, Abortion is impossible anyway (loss of the baby after this point is known as a stillbirth), and so this is a moot point. Most of the animals that we (well, you) rear for food think more than your average abortion "victim". For the same reasons, don't use the words "Murder" or "Infanticide".

2. What are you talking about with Stem Cells, Statikk? That has nothing to do with this issue, and anyway, at the point when the Stem Cells are removed, the "Baby" is just a clump of 10-20 cells...

3. We live in an overpopulated world. To say that every baby that could be born should be born is not only impossible, but also churlish and self-destructive.

Now, let's keep this one clean, people...

To Dan-

Here's something I put together:

Abortion is clear murder
Abortion is clearly murder as no one can deny. No one can also deny that it is murder of the innocent. Medical studies show clearly that a fetus is conscious and is performing all six life processes. Just because a fetus may not have a whole lung doesn't mean he or she isn't a human. Many people are born without all body organs or limbs. A lot of people who are against the death penalty are FOR abortion. That is indeed contradictory. It shows they are not about justice, but sin. Abortion is one of the worse types of murder, because it is the killing of a person who has not performed any sin. Those who practice abortion should receive the same that they give the baby.

Motives for abortions
Their are several reasons people have an abortion. One common reason is for rape pregnancies. No matter how much a woman may disdain having become pregnant through rape, she should realize her baby is not the cause of the rape, and thus shouldn't be dealt like a rapist. Rapists should be put to death, but not the baby procreated through rape. What does America do though? America puts the rapists in prison for a few years or months or whatever, and gives the baby the death penalty. That's crazy. If a woman truly doesn't want her baby which was conceived through rape, the government should care for the baby until he or she is grown. Some people still try to sensationalize the emotional distress the baby may have once he or she is older realizing he or she was conceived through rape. He or she may be emotionally distraught, but is that a cause to murder them? Isn't it crazy, for a woman who was raped and is thus emotionally distraught, to add to her distress by becoming a murderer of her child? Also, the child is either going to heaven or hell. He or she still will in the end realize he was conceived through rape, and will have to live throughout all eternity with that knowledge. So murdering a baby just because of rape is totally unjust. The only time a person should be put to death is when they have committed a crime, not when they were a victim of a crime! Why can't Americans see that?

Does a woman have a right to choose
It is awfully crazy to even think of a woman having the right to choose who and who not to murder. Just because the baby is in the woman's body doesn't mean she has the right to do whatever she wish with the baby. The Jews were in Hitler's country. Indeed, if a woman can do whatever she wish with her baby in her body, Hitler can do whatever he wishes with the people in his nation! Besides, in many cases, the woman is the one responsible for the baby in her. The baby had no hand in impregnating his or her mother, but the mother did. The mother then, must reap what she sows. She cannot punish her baby for something she brought upon herself...even if there is possibility she may die from the child.

Abortion for population control
If you want to consider a method for controlling population, forget abortion and turn your attention to putting to death the guilty, not the innocent. Murderers, homosexuals, adulterers, etc. are some you can begin with. Murdering babies is uncivilized, immoral, and a terribly crazy method for controlling population.

What about deformity
A deformed person has enough heart distress from being deformed, and do you mean to tell me that you would add to it by murdering him? Killing the deformed is animalistic and should not be a practice among humans. Humans should love and care for one another, and since deformity is not a crime, it must be lovingly dealt with. If a couple is truly fiscally unable to care for a deformed child, the government should be moral enough to step in, and provide the health benefits the child needs. This would indicate a government truly contoured to meet the needs of it's citizens.

What if the pregnancy "threatens" the mother's life
It is better to give a life than to take one, at least for an innocent person. A good mother would never decide to murder her baby to help insure she will live. A mother who does murder her baby to protect her life proves she wasn't a good mother in the first place. Look at how that unreasoning mother bear ferociously protects her cubs! A mother who has an abortion is worse than this bear. Such a mother also shows that if her child ever grew up and got into a situation where he or she must be saved, the mother wouldn't risk her life to save her child. This is a no good mother. Also, during a pregnancy, who knows whether the mother will die or not? Just because a doctor says it doesn't mean she will! There have been a score of cases where this liberal pony tail doctor urged the mother to get an abortion simply because he "thought" she wouldn't survived the pregnancy, and the woman refused, and didn't die. Again, getting an abortion is not even a sure way to prevent your death during pregnancy. There have been cases where women who had abortions died from the abortion. I couldn't feel sorry for them! Also, again, supposing the woman started the pregnancy, she knew the possibilities before she became pregnant. If you are afraid you are going to die from a child birth, don't get pregnant in the first place. If you do get pregnant, bear your own responsibility. You can't kill someone else for it.

Should I bomb the abortion clinic
No. If the government won't do it, leave it up to God. You are likely to do more harm than good...you may even murder a pregnant woman and her baby yourself.

What can I do to fight against abortion
Talk about it with people. Get pictures and details on how it is done and press upon people the terrible things done during an abortion. Convict the consciousness of those who continue supporting or performing abortions. Teach your kids against abortion, and make them feel sorry for other kids who fall at the merciless hands of abortion. Vote against any candidate who supports abortion. If both support it, vote for the one who has the least favoritism for it, or don't vote at all.


Also, abortion can also lead to cancers and depressions. The mom has no right to kill the baby because the baby is not part of the mom! It had different blood type and everything. The only thing that connects the two is the ability cord.

Abortion is NOT killing a baby. It is aborting an embryo or foetus before it can develop into a baby. The two are totally different things.

Like I say, Babies are not involved! By aborting, we are NOT killing children. Killing is always wrong, that is why the Death Penalty is wrong. However, since embryos and foetuses are not conscious, the same does not apply to them.

Don't you dare bring the Jews into this! That has nothing to do with this! The Jews were people - they had feelings, they had thoughts. Embryos don't.

:mad: It is NOT murder! They're NOT people!

I never said anything about aborting foetuses because they might be disabled. Abortions should be used only when the mother would be unable to care for the child.

The woman is a thinking being. The Foetus is not. Get this straight. What makes you think that because a woman might not want a child now, that she would be prepared to kill it if it had already been born and grown up?

Whoa! Hold your horses, there! Don't just go straight on to another subject, stay a while, and tell us exactly how Abortions cause Cancer...

It is called an Umbilical Cord.

Key Point:

All of your arguments seem to be focused on the idea that the Embryos and Foetuses being aborted are somehow people, with thoughts and feelings. However, as I have already pointed out, by the time the Foetus reaches the stage of even resembling a Baby, it is already too late for an abortion. The masses of cells being aborted are not people, they are simply unthinking, unfeeling masses of cells. This sounds heartless, but it is simply the plain facts.

Um I know what it's called.

At 3 weeks after conception a baby's heart begins beating.
At 6 weeks after conception a baby's brain waves are traceable.
At 11 weeks after conception all of the baby's internal organs are present and functioning

THEY ARE LIVING AND THEY DO THINK! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!:mad: So they are living and it's not too late. Your also wrong because They are also conscious too and they are human and they are CHILDREN!

The Jews example was not mines ya maniac. It is relating too this topic.

You really don't know anything about abortion or the fetus. It's sick to think that abortion is a good idea. I thought you were smarter than this.

while I am not happy about abortion I believe in certian cases it is the only thing to do. of course theres my idea where you need a licesnce to be a parent, you wouldn't have to be a phonomical person, just someone who is mentally and economicly stable and a good role model. of course if everyone did what I told them everyone would be acting like a chicken right now.

I never said they weren't living. Of course they are living. That doesn't make them thinking beings. A fly's brain waves are "traceable", that doesn't mean that they think...

And they are certainly not Children. Not Biologically, not Mentally, not Morally, not Physically, and not Legally.

Please don't start with the personal insults. I thought we were doing quite well in having a civilised conversation, then you have to go and call me a sick, stupid maniac...

I think the main problem here is that we have different definitions of what a "Child" is.

If you look at definition 1, you will see that it specifies that the being in question must be "between birth and puberty", and so Foetuses are not children.

While I'm here:

So it is not relevant to Abortions.

Here is where we fall over. It states that murder is "killing a human being", so Abortion is not Murder unless Foetuses are Human Beings. Scouring dictionary.com has brought me no answers here...

I believe that they are not Human Beings, and you believe that they are. That seems to be the only point of contention here that dictionary.com has not resolved...

Meep, I can't really say what side I am on in this debate. On one hand, I see it as taking an innocent life, who will never experence the joys of life. On the other, if there was no such thing as abortion to being with (in other words...it was outlawed from the start...yes I am being extreme), this world would be so badly overpopulated that the ecosystem would have collapsed...

:

If you want to consider a method for controlling population, forget abortion and turn your attention to putting to death the guilty, not the innocent. Murderers, homosexuals, adulterers, etc. are some you can begin with

Pinky...why do you have homosexuals in that? They have done nothing but go against your precious 'holy book'. Murderers and can see getting the ax...adulterers and rapists I'd say castrate. But I don't see homosexuality as a reason for either of those 'punishments'. They were born that way, and if God didn't like Homosexuals...he wouldn't have made them that way.


*sits and watches Pinky and Dan to ensure no flames start*

Oh yeah...found a link to forum on a similar subject.

http://boards.abcnews.go.com/cgi/abc...=us_parenthood

It caught my interest because at this point in time (25 year old female) I have no interest at all in having children...no patience....meh!

Abortion
 

Well, I think abortion should'nt be allowed to be used as legal. It is cruel.

It should'nt be used as an excuse to be having 'certain' adaptation problems or fears of pain......

Even if I do say so myself (I'm Male)



Mudokon101..

*whistles innocently* Who, me? Oh, you must have got me confused with... with some other Dan... *saunters off, looking over his shoulder*

Oh no, its my old PSRE lesson all over again!!!

there are endless views on this topic, most of them just contradict each other. Also you cant realy be certain of everything. is a foetus realy conscious? im not sure about that. Does the fetus feel pain, you cant be sure of that.

Danny sed that the foetus is definatly not human :fuzconf: yea im quite sure its human. he also sed -

"The Jews were people - they had feelings, they had thoughts. Embryos don't"

The embryo will be a person, all the jews were embryos. you talk like a embryo is not important, but it most certainly is.


Is abortion actualy murder?? It probably is. You are preventing a life from carrying on growing. It may not be consious but that doesn't mean its not murder, just because it cant feel it. What about the people harald shipman killed? They all died in there sleep right? But he still killed them.

The points of rape pregnancies also has different points. but if you got raped and got pregnant do you think you would be able to give birth to the child, knowing it was created through your pain and missery, knowing that it's father is a raper and it has inherited genes from a raper. Nobody can answer that question unless they have been in the situation.

Another important point is when people say that the embryo could become a doctor or a Einstien. The important word is "Could" It could also become a raper, murder or another hitler. You never know what will happen to the child or what it will become, thats just fait and i dont think it should realy be a issue.

Well im going to stop now, but realy this could go on forever.

EDIT: Ops i didnt spot what pinky had sed about homosexual's. pinky plz explain why you want to kill homosexual's

I've already gone over this. I'll try it again, in short logical steps:

1. Abortion prevents something that could have been a person from being born. This is true, and I have never denied it.

2. Anything that prevents something that could have been a person from being born is bad. I don't agree with this, but if you are suggesting that Abortion is bad because of the reason above, then this must be what you think, yes?

3. Therefore, Contraception is bad. If Contraception is used, then a baby that could have been conceived and born would not be. Therefore, by your arguments, Contraception is bad.

4. Therefore, Not Having Sex is bad. If you don't have sex at every opportunity, then a baby that could have been conceived and born would not be. Therefore, by your arguments, Not Having Sex is bad.

Can you see what I'm saying here? Where do you stop? Do you announce that all sperms and eggs that are ever produced should be collected and used to produce babies? Can you see why this particular argument against Abortion is a bit silly?

Yes i know about the contraception thing. its somthing else i would have gone into but desided not too because too much had been sed already, but i will go on now anyway

You sed
"Anything that prevents something that could have been a person from being born is bad." as if it is one of my beliefs.
i never said that it is "Bad" I said it is "probably murder"

Also as for contraception it depends how you look at it, a condom or pill isnt stopping somthing already growing but preventing it from starting. but a coil if different, its posible to debate that using a coil is abortion.

Anyway im getting tird of this now :dodgy: so i think ill stop posting untill i find out why pinky wants to kill homosexuals

Well, that isn't necessarily so. It could be argued (and I believe) that Abortion is preventing a life from starting, not ending a life. Biologically, this may not be precisely accurate, but Morally, I believe that it is right.

*also awaits Pinky's reply re:Homosexuality, but with trepidation*

well, i'm neither for, or against abortions. I have a reason behind this feeling...I'm male, and i'll never know what it's like to be carrying a living creature inside of me.
I DO support pro choice, and as long as abortions aren't used as a birth control, i don't really see a problem with them...
i'm ADOPTED, and also a JEW(although i don't practice my families religion, i am still proud to be of jewish heritage.)
..and i can honestly say pinky, i don't really apreciate your attempted analogies of the halocaust and abortions, nor do i agree with your comment about homosexuals being punished for their sexual preferences...
i wish i could convey my feelings better, but i've never really been good with words...

I'm not going to argue on whether or not an unborn baby is a human being, although I can't see why it couldn't be considered as such. I think if a woman wants an abortion, she should have a damned good reason. It's fine if she aborts in the first couple of weeks, but as the fetus develops, abortion becomes uglier and uglier. One method is to puncture the skull then suck out the brains with a vaccuume cleaner.

I don't think it is killing a actually person and how do you know it's innocent...yeah. I think if the mother wants an abortion she should get it.
You do know most people getting abortions these days are female teens at 15, 16 years old. You see they say their families don't care and wouldn't help them they couldn't look after them themselves.

About the government taking care of the babies you'd be paying twice as much taxes even more for them to take care of them that is not a good idea.

Although I don't have time to read through this right now, I'll just add a quick two-pennorth. In my chosen vocation (if I ever get through this degree course) there was a recent debate about making the "morning after pill" available to buy. It is now available, over the counter, and anti-abortionists see this as tantamount to over-the-counter abortion.

Levonelle (the drug) only works if taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex - and works by preventing implantation of the little ball of a few dozen cells that is the "baby".

Some pharmacists refuse to sell it on religios grounds and suchlike, but supply it if prescribed. I see this as not only ridiculous double standards - if they refuse to sell it they should then refuse to supply no matter what the reason (prescription or whatever) - but in this course of work your first duty is to the patient, like with doctors. Is it right for a person to force their religious views onto someone? And if, in an extreme and unlikely circumstance but nevertheless entirely possible, the girl has been raped and only plucks up the courage to go to the pharmacists late on a Saturday night, when the available time for the drug is nearly running out, do you turn her away? On Sundays the doctors are closed and by Monday it'll be too late...

Although I'm not entirely sure of my feelings on abortion, I do not think it is right to condemn a woman to carry the product of rape. Although not the babie's fault, it will forever remind her of the violation of her that the man perpetuated...

i think women should do whatever they want to do with their children.

GOD WILL JUDGE THEM NOT US!

Thanks for telling me, I nearly missed that.

*dislikes Pinky more and more every time she posts*


Oh, and I do think embryos and foetuses are humans but I doubt that they are any more concious than the animals that are slaughtered for their meat daily.

I was told in Child Development that foetuses sometimes cry when they're removed from the womb. I wouldn't do a job like that if I was paid £1000 per hour...Yuck...
(Crying is not a sign of conciousness and I won't mention why they do that beause we're on the subject of abortion and I don't want it to turn into another flame-fest about [insert word that certain people find offencive here]!)

pinky please calm down, i dont want you to be banned again...think about what your saying and the poeple you might hurt.

Hmm.. *wonders why this subject had to be brought up in the first place..* This is such a difficult subject. Like Dan said the main point is what different people consider to be a child. (that sentence probably made any sence, but I hope you understood..)

I don't really know what I exactly think about this subject. On the other hand I think is wrong to kill your child, but I really don't think it is a child at that point.

On the other hand I think that mother should have the right for an abortion if she really couldn't take care of the baby. I've also tought about the same thing as Pinky.. That you could put your baby up for adoption. I think that would be a good idea, but on the other hand if you think about all the children that are born every day. Like Dan said, over population is really a big problem. But you can't solve it like that, Pinky! Who are you or anyone else to decide who lives and who dies? But then again, who says you can kill your child if you don't want to have him? Like i said.. this is a very difficult subject. But like I said, I dont think it is a child at that time.

And if the mother would have the baby and think that she'll put it up for abortion, but then she wouldn't wanna let go and if she couldn't handle it.. then it could ruin her life. I think that you should have the possibility for abortion if you're a teenager and pregnant, but if you really think about it..You shouldn't have sex if you aren't ready for the coincequinces (probably isn't written like that..:rolleyes: ). Although you would be using condom or something they could always broke..

But if you're raped I think it's a whole different thing. Pinky's though about raped women and they killing their innocent babies when you should punish the raper was kind of absurd. Of course you should punish the rapers. I don't mean that part.. But you can't blame the mothers so much in those cases. If the rape is really thraumatising, would you want to have something that would remind you of that for the rest of your life?

Like I said.. I'm both against and for abortion. I'm not judging the women who have abortions. I think it's their right and they can do that if they like. But I know I couldn't never have one myself. If I would get pregnant, I would keep the baby even if it would been that I had to quit school and get some lousy low-paid job. I just couldn't do that. I would like to have babies of my own. I think that giing birth to a baby is a wonderful event and I would like to have that experience myself. But I think I'm going to adopt. Like from some country of the Third World. Some poor children that wouldn't make it and that are abandoned.

Hmm.. couple more thoughts.. Your doctor thing was stupid, Pinky. Do you think that if a person is a doctor he is a better and more valuable person than others?

And what comes to homosexuals.. Well.. nothing gets through you anyway.. Don't mind trying..

i am against them doing so

giving birth is a blessing not a burden, seeing the first steps of evolution is not a advantage to kill it but it is a spark of life that should be cherished and loved. Not hated and feared.
Even if a woman is raped...(my opinion)...a mother should do her duty as a mother and raise the child and lead him/her into a good life... it is saying that its the childs fault for the mother to be raped.
Plus just imagine if the child was expected by god to be one of his many children, how would he feel if he found out that one of his children has stopped another life before it could even get the chance to fight.
Children are the only reason we are put on this earth and destroying one of your own...doesn't it just hurt you inside jiust thinking about what your son/daughter could have accomplished.

What if you meet your aborted child in heaven...god chooses wisely on his children and to think that the child cannot even exist..it must go somewhere. What would you say?

My distant aunty was raped and had a girl. She is older than me and is a beutiful, talented and smart woman who takes care of her mother and has a husband already with 2 kids.
What if my aunty had an abortion which was the hardest thing to do in her life? That women will be killed, her husband will marry someone else, her children wont have a chance at life and all her good spirit and heart will just be.....nothing.

She hapens to be the only relative i can trust and talk about my pains to and she helps me through it like she has been through that road even though she hasn't. I wouldn't know what to do, or how to live knowing that she wouldn't be there.

*sighs*
 

*Claps on Oddbodd's reply* Your right, and it's as simple as that.

LOL, where did you get the idea that I wanted to kill homosexuals? I have a life you guys and I do not kill.

*Smacks head* I don't even know why I bother Let me say this again:


THE HOLOCAUST EXAMPLE WAS NOT MINES!!!! I GOT IT FROM SOME ABORTION SCIENTIST AND I DID NOT SAY THAT I WANTED TO KILL HOMOSEXUALS!!!!!!!!!!! THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE I PICKED UP AN DIN THERE DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. DID YOU READ IT CAREFULLY OR FAST?

Besides, I AM PART JEW ALSO!!!!!!!

Did you guys read what I posted earlier? That the holocaust and the homosexual example was not mines? Want me to say it again?

Dan, please don't lie. I did not call you stupid.

I've actually seen what they do to these children. It's kinda nasty and it's kinda sad. Some of them looked fully developed you can see the eyes the mouth and everything.

Gluk, please read my reply's before you criticize me.

Also Dan,

You really don't know if a baby can think or not. They came close to think that they do. We don't even know if they have souls so you really don't know. Fetus means "little one" Not unconscious one that's not living and is not considered human. Besides, it's like you telling me how a period feels! Since your a guy and you never experienced it and I have. So how can you say that abortion is not painful and the women who kills her child will not go through depression? Believe me, majority of them do. My friend is depressed because she had her abortion. The feeling between a mother and it's child are waaaaaay different then a father and it's child. It's like a bond that no one would understand.

I do not think a mother should have to have the baby if she was raped. What's she going to say when the child asks who its dad was? He was an evil, selfish bastard who cared more about satisfying his own carnal lusts and to hell with the consequences than the feelings of another human being, who he traumatised for life.

Rape is a horrible, horrible thing. Many women commit suicide because of it. The last thing anyone who has been through it wants is to be reminded of it. I'm not saying it's the baby's fault, but it'd be terrible for the mother to be reminded of it all the time and the child live with the knowledge that its father was a despicable criminal. 'Do her duty as a mother'? Bollocks! A woman who is the victim of rape has no such duty. Why should she bear a child forcibly given to her against her will?!

Rap is horrible. It's the type of thing that can ruin you for the rest of your life.