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-   -   artsy games (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=20198)

scrabface 04-05-2011 01:50 PM

artsy games
 
do you think a game can be art? or are there any games which max the artistic possibilities out? apart from that art is something individual and subjective, how can you transport an innovative idea through a game? and what does it need to make a game art?

I know it's about games, but because it's not about a specific game, I think it doesn't belong to Non-Oddworld Gaming in the first place.

Disgruntled Intern 04-05-2011 01:57 PM

Since story telling has been classified as an art for ages, and video games are relying more and more on just that, then, yes, I think a lot of video games can be called art.

That's not to say they can be called good art, though.

Wings of Fire 04-05-2011 01:59 PM

I don't believe I've ever heard an objective and satisfying description of what it means to be art.

enchilado 04-05-2011 02:02 PM

Neither have I, but I'd say that if some of the shit I've seen labelled as art is allowed to be then yes, video games can.

scrabface 04-05-2011 02:02 PM

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Since story telling has been classified as an art for ages, and video games are relying more and more on just that, then, yes, I think a lot of video games can be called art.

That's not to say they can be called good art, though.

but if only those aspects are artistic, are they not only the sum of its parts?

CrissCross 04-05-2011 02:05 PM

i guess video gams can be a type of art

but only just

Daxter King 04-05-2011 02:11 PM

I feel as if games qualify as art. Red Dead Redemption is the best example I can think of.

Wings of Fire 04-05-2011 02:13 PM

Ico Ico Ico Ico Ico Ico Ico Ico

DarkHoodness 04-05-2011 02:16 PM

Don't forget Psychonauts. Or Beyond Good and Evil.

scrabface 04-05-2011 02:19 PM

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I don't believe I've ever heard an objective and satisfying description of what it means to be art.

but I guess you experienced something what you call art.

the main difference between a game and a movie is the fact, that there is a user and he's involved in a story. he can, with great limits, change some aspects of the plot etc.

Wings of Fire 04-05-2011 02:21 PM

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but I guess you experienced something what you call art.

Yeah, and as video games have always been my visual medium of choice, I would definitely say that they can be art.

Disgruntled Intern 04-05-2011 02:22 PM

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I feel as if games qualify as art. Red Dead Redemption is the best example I can think of.

Fucking seriously? That game was horrible.

Mr. Bungle 04-05-2011 02:29 PM

What DI said.

Art is entirely subjective. So, yeah, of course video games can be labeled as art. Not all of it is good, but that's also subjective.

Best examples, to me, include:

Oddworld
most Rareware Nintendo-console games
Psychonauts
Shadow of the Colossus
Limbo (very much so)

and uh... others. Silent Hill.

Wings of Fire 04-05-2011 02:35 PM

Silent Hill 2 for certain.
Prince of Persia Sands of Time
Tsukihime
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Fatal Frame/Project Zero 2.

Mr. Bungle 04-05-2011 02:37 PM

Yeah, Majora's Mask, for sure. Goddammit, I should've mentioned that earlier. Best Zelda game.

CrissCross 04-05-2011 02:43 PM

The only zelda game i've played is phantom hourglass and i guess that could be art

OANST 04-05-2011 02:46 PM

Yeah. Ico. Shadow of the Colossus. Yeah.

Manco 04-05-2011 03:28 PM

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Oddworld, and don't forget Okami.

Basically any game can be art, it's just that some are more obviously pushing the boundaries.

Also: video games make use of a great many different artistic elements (graphical style, colour palette, sound and music, character design and interaction, storytelling, UI design, etc.) drawn together into a cohesive whole. If that isn't art, I don't know what is - especially since cinema does the exact same thing, but lacks any actual interactivity.

Daxter King 04-05-2011 03:31 PM

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Fucking seriously? That game was horrible.

That game was amazing.

Disgruntled Intern 04-05-2011 03:35 PM

No it wasn't. The voice acting was crap, the main character was boring, the story was cliche and dull, and gameplay mechanics were wonky, plus it was just plain ugly.

Oh, wait. Rockstar made it. Nevermind.

Daxter King 04-05-2011 04:10 PM

If you think that Red Dead Redemption was so poor in all of those areas, then please tell me examples of games you think excel in them.

Mr. Bungle 04-05-2011 04:13 PM

I just thought the environment was pretty dull, and the gameplay wasn't exactly innovative or exciting. It wasn't terrible, but nothing amazing.

Daxter King 04-05-2011 04:16 PM

I thought it was one of the best looking games I've ever played.

Phylum 04-05-2011 04:18 PM

You're forgetting Braid.

Disgruntled Intern 04-05-2011 04:20 PM

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If you think that Red Dead Redemption was so poor in all of those areas, then please tell me examples of games you think excel in them.

What, in all of them? Because that pretty much doesn't happen. The point is, Red Dead essentially failed in every category, whereas most games at least have some sort of redeeming quality.

Daxter King 04-05-2011 04:34 PM

I guess you could have an incorrect opinion about the story and characters, while at the same time I can sorta see someone not like the gameplay, but calling the game ugly is just untrue.

CrissCross 04-05-2011 04:50 PM

i havent got red dead redemption but it is pretty good

EDIT:what i mean is i've played it before but i don know much about the storyline

Mr. Bungle 04-05-2011 05:28 PM

Do you just like to read your own posts?

enchilado 04-05-2011 05:52 PM

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You're forgetting Braid.

I downloaded the demo recently, it's amazing. It was running really slowly, unfortunately.


What about World of Goo?

Nate 04-05-2011 06:07 PM

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the main difference between a game and a movie is the fact, that there is a user and he's involved in a story. he can, with great limits, change some aspects of the plot etc.

Why does that stop it from being art? Art doesn't have to be a static thing. Whatever happens in gameplay is part of the experience, whether it's the same for every player or not.


And to answer the original question; I think that all media have the potential for high art or low art. Movies have everything from arthouse to porn. Television has everything from drama to reality. Even dance has a range from ballet to pole-dancing. Games have a similar range, though I think the medium is much more focused on the lower end of the scale.

Many people seem to prefer to only label the upper end of the scale as 'art', rather than calling it all art and differentiating high art and low art. I'm not prepared to venture an opinion on that particular issue; as WoF said, it comes down to how you define art.