Oddworld Forums - My Castle

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Here, you guys may of heard about the old bloke who shot some buglers dead when he caught then sneaking around his neighbors house right? Well, if not, here is the article;

PASADENA, Tex. — Joe Horn’s home was his castle, but what about his neighbor’s home?
When Mr. Horn, a 61-year-old retiree living with his daughter and her family in a growing subdivision in this Houston suburb, saw two burglars breaking into the house next door on Nov. 14, he called 911 and grabbed his shotgun.
Moments later, after what the police say was a confrontation on Mr. Horn’s front lawn, the two men — both illegal immigrants — lay dead on winding Timberline Drive, leaving behind a pillowcase stuffed with jewelry and about $2,000 in cash.
One of them, identified by the police as Hernando Torres, a k a Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, was found across the street beside a sleigh and a Santa cow with a sign, “Have a Moo-ry Christmas,” at the house of a Pasadena police officer.
The other, Diego Ortiz, 30, fell on a neighbor’s lawn. Bloodstains were still visible on the sidewalk Tuesday. “The fire department did some pressure washing, but you can still see where he was,” said the neighbor, who did not want her name used. “You don’t know who is tied to them, who may still retaliate.”
The shootings in Village Grove East, where the biggest excitement is usually the comings and goings of school buses, have set off a storm of issues.
“There’s the First Amendment,” said Charles Lamont, a neighbor and a marine captain who served in Iraq, citing the protests for and against Mr. Horn that have convulsed the neighborhood. The Pasadena City Council on Tuesday gave preliminary approval to a ban on demonstrations at private residences.
Then there was Mr. Horn’s claim of self-defense under the Legislature’s reformulation of the “castle doctrine” that, as of September, no longer requires a Texan to retreat before using deadly force at his own “habitation” in the face of a perceived lethal threat. Protecting a neighbor’s property, however, is not included.
Protesters have also made race an issue. Mr. Horn is white and the burglars, he told the 911 operator, were black. Yet the neighbors whose house Mr. Horn was protecting are Vietnamese. They later said they thought the two men had been stalking them.
A police report suggests Mr. Torres and Mr. Ortiz may have been shot in the back.
And both, the police say, were illegal immigrants from Colombia, Mr. Ortiz having been deported in 1999 after being sentenced to 25 years for cocaine convictions.
Mr. Horn went into seclusion even before a death threat was left on an answering machine Sunday in the Harris County district attorney’s office. He has been too upset to comment, said his lawyer, Charles T. Lambright.
Capt. Bud Corbett, a spokesman for the Pasadena Police Department, said that Mr. Horn had cooperated with the investigation and that the police report would be ready for the district attorney by the end of next week. Then, Captain Corbett said, a grand jury will decide whether Mr. Horn will face homicide charges.
The shootings were denounced by scores of black demonstrators including Quanell X, the leader of the Houston-based New Black Panther Nation, who led a march on Dec. 2. He denounced Mr. Horn as “judge, jury and executioner” amid scuffles with white biker counter-protesters.
One vital piece of evidence is certain to be the audiotape of Mr. Horn’s 911 calls. In a low, calm and steady voice, he said he saw the men breaking in and asked: “I’ve got a shotgun; do you want me to stop them?”
The Pasadena emergency operator responded: “Nope. Don’t do that. Ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over, O.K.?”
Mr. Horn said: “But hurry up, man. Catch these guys will you? Cause, I ain’t going to let them go.”
Mr. Horn then said he would get his shotgun.
The operator said, “No, no.” But Mr. Horn said: “I can’t take a chance of getting killed over this, O.K.? I’m going to shoot.”
The operator told him not to go out with a gun because officers would be arriving.
“O.K.,” Mr. Horn said. “But I have a right to protect myself too, sir,” adding, “The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.”
The operator said, “You’re going to get yourself shot.” But Mr. Horn replied, “You want to make a bet? I’m going to kill them.”
Moments later he said, “Well here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I’m going.”
Then he said: “Move, you’re dead.”
There were two quick explosions, then a third, and the 911 call ended.
“I had no choice,” Mr. Horn said when he called 911 back. “They came in the front yard with me, man.”
Captain Corbett said that a plainclothes officer had pulled up just in time to see Mr. Horn pointing his shotgun at both men across his front yard, that Mr. Ortiz had at one point started to run in a way that took him closer to Mr. Horn, and that both men “received gunfire from the rear.”
That fact, alone, however, was not necessarily conclusive, Captain Corbett said. “It tells an investigator something, but not everything,” he added. “They could still have been seen as a threat.”

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...1190.ready.jpg
Middle and bottom, Harris County Sheriff’s Office
Joe Horn, 61, top, shot Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Torres, 38, after he saw them breaking into a neighbor’s home.

He (Joe Horn) was not charged.
But do YOU think he did the right thing, would you do the same, or should of he waited for the Police to show up?

I, personally, whole-heatedly support what Joe did. If someone broke into MY house I believe I have the right to shoot them, and to defend your property, and also your neighbors place.
After all, if the bugler knew that the barrel of a gun would be facing them, I bet they wouldn't be so eager to rob someones house.

A couple of years back I had an interesting conversation with a guy who was a security guard. He pointed out to me that the law (in Australia at least) is that in order to claim self-defence, you must have retaliated with equal or less force than you were attacked. Therefore, if someone attacks you bare-handed, you can't defend with a knife. If they have a knife then it's okay but you can't pull out a gun. I'm sure that there are loopholes for situations when the only thing you have to defend yourself is stronger (ie if you have a gun but no knife).

Even ignoring that, this guy has no leg to stand on. He was under no personal threat; he was just an idiot who rated human life lower than material possessions.

Well, let's see; an old retiree, Texas, and Mexicans, yeah, there's gonna be some trouble.

Do I think it was wrong of him to do it? I don't know. I don't like that he killed one of them, but course, they entered at their own risk. Definately not something that's going to help the repuation of the Mexicans in this country.

I dunno if it was really necessary for him to kill them... he could have shot them in the kneecaps and waited for the cops.
But if I caught some guy snooping around my house and I would have a gun handy, the guy would be asked very kindly to put the stuff down, empty his wallet for the damage done to my door or window, leave my house and would then receive a bullet to the knee or shoulder (or both if I'm in a bad mood for waking me up). I won't even call 911, let him call it and explain why he got shot.

Damn it Havoc, you're so sexy. :p

I agree that he has the right to defend his home, I disaree with him shooting to kill but they knew that something could happen when they broke into his house.

It reminds me of a [probably mythical] lawsuit, where the burgular broke into the house through a sun roof and landed on a knife. He then sued the home-owner.

Although if someone broke into my house I would just hide. 'Cos I'm a scaredy cat. :(

- Rexy

If someone broke into my house, thet'd be right over my knee, and I'd use the belt.

I don't think killing was necessary. The guy should have done what Havoc said.

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I dunno if it was really necessary for him to kill them... he could have shot them in the kneecaps and waited for the cops.

With a shotgun? He'd have no leg left and the other one would have had a clear opportunity to attack him.

I agree with Nate, this guy looks like a wannabe vigilante, two aspects of this case I find very confusing though; firstly the fact that he shot at least one man in the back and secondly the 911 call itself is either reported on weirdly or he actually had the phone to his ear when he shot the men. In the end though, the law is there to protect the individual, not provide an excuse for bloodshed, the man is guilty for either shooting two men who were running from him or being retarded enough to put himself in a situation where his life was threatened by them.

Always Texans isn't it?

Its either them, gangsters or farmers who seem to kill criminials as wannabe vigilantes.

Although i think thats an oxymoron, isn't a vigilante basically a wannabe police officer?

If someone broke into my house I'd probably call the police and then grab a baseball bat and go to town on him.

But did he do the right thing? Well, it was his neighbor's house that was being broke into, so he can't claim self-defense in my mind. The best thing he could have done was call the police and wait for them to arrive. But if he went over with his gun even then, he should have only hold them at gun-point, shooting only if it looked like they were pulling a weapon.

Of course, that's a hypothetical situation. But I think he did the wrong thing for the right reasons.

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Damn it Havoc, you're so sexy. :p

- Rexy

I know baby :fuzcool:.

WoF: We dunno what kind of shotgun it was, maybe it was a semi automatic? And who cares if he blows his leg off, as long as he doesn't kill the fool.

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I know baby :fuzcool:.

WoF: We dunno what kind of shotgun it was, maybe it was a semi automatic? And who cares if he blows his leg off, as long as he doesn't kill the fool.

Ever heard of dying because of severe haemorrhaging? But I do agree with you. It's by their own hands.