Cloneing Cattle or any other kind of live stock for food! Is it better or for worse!
 

I was watching a wierd show the other day about how nowadays cattle ranchers are actually beginning to clone their live stock to better mass produce meat. In other words they are cloneing a cow for all purposes to be sent to the slaughter house. Now the question here is do you think its better than actually doing this the old fashiond way where they would breed the cow? Do you think its right and theres nothing wrong with cloneing an animal as oppose to naturally breeding them? The benefit is that for one the natural animal would flurish and we would just be cloneing them for food products but not killing off the natural breeds.

I mean if cows and any other kind of live stock is being cloned and mass produced for meat then could we consider that a cow can be a more or less a man made animal? Please lets discuss I like to hear your opinon.

If the livestock you are cloning is healthy and free of disease, then yes it's totally fine. In fact, it may help the human race by reducing the number of disgustingly disgusting things we eat.

Yeah. But I don't forsee slaughterhouses becoming all that sanitary anytime soon. Personally, I'd be blown away by a plant whose yield has a type of meat -like flavor to it than cloned animals. Well, it it will ease starvation I'm for it.

I don't particularly see any problems... well, except that America may become even more cholestrol-ridden and obese. The whole Atkins diet thing... I don't believe a word of it. But I think the cloning's an okay thing.
Now what's really weird is that Japanese scientists just figured out how to clone mice without the use of sperm, creating in effect an entire generation of female mice. My friend freaked out when he saw the article, saying that women would take over the Earth and men would be kept alive only as sex slaves. Heh heh. Boy that was funny. I'm not too worried about that happening though, my friend is paranoid and sexist. And racist. And homophobic, and xenophobic, and Republican, and a strong believer in Bush. So I don't take his claims too seriously. Plus, the scientists said that it was a very unrefined process, and that most of the mice died. And even if women could live without us guys... why would they want to?

I dont think its a bad idea. Just shows how Humans are becoming more advanced.

Cloneing animals for food is ok, but cloneing animals and humans just for experemts and fun is just playing God. My point is cloneing things that we don't realy need is pointless.Those vykkers.

I think that a cloned person has no feeling and emotions, just like robots. They have no soles...!

Technologically advanced, at least, yes.

By all means, I see no problem. They're cows, which would be bred purely for slaughter anyways.

I wounder if Sydney would of had a different opinion on this seemingly he was always like an animal activist on issues with animals being slaughtered and such.
Remember those animal rights threads Syd use to post on here?
For me I don't think there would be any harm.

Yeah, I think if cows are going to be raised just to be slaughtered anyway, it's just as well that they're clones.

Dear lord, how will they ever walk on rocky surfaces?!

'Dear lord, how will they ever walk on rocky surfaces?!'

Damn you!! That was my joke for the taking, now i will have to settle for a mediocre Fish joke.

'They have no soles...!'

Well, they can always go to the Fish market!! Ho-Ho!!

'I wounder if Sydney would of had a different opinion on this seemingly he'

'She'. Sydney is a female.

'I think that a cloned person has no feeling and emotions, just like robots.'

You know for a Newbie you sound like a Brain retarded puppy, barking at its own hind leg. A cloned person is just the same [genetically atleast] person as the person it was cloned from. The difference being it WILL develop a different personality including feelings and emotions.

A cloned preson sounds wrong. it's like it's never ment to happen, i dunno.

Never MEANT to happen. Never meant to happen by whom? Because to say that something is never meant to happen is a pretty broad statement, considering how many conscious beings there are just on this planet. And I don't think we can really speak for any other humans, let alone aliens or whatever else there might be in existance.
I don't think it will happen, at least not for a long time. As stupid as the human race is, I don't think they'll do something that blatantly useless and redundant unless there's some really good reason. Like, cloning individual organs by stimulating stem cells so that blind people can be given new eyeballs, and sick people can be given replacement organs. That's actually a good idea, and highly possible given a few years for research. But I don't think they'll ever try to clone an entire human being.

'A cloned preson sounds wrong. it's like it's never ment to happen, i dunno.'

You don't know. That is correct.

It's "Mean't" captain smartass. :rolleyes:

Of course over cloning of livestock produces environmental problems such as decreasing o-zone levels due to the increase of methane gas. At the minute its one of the main causes for lowering o-zone levels but if we start to clone animals then we end up making matters worse by raising methane levels.
Nobody looks further than solving world hunger which it wouldnt because there is already enough food on the planet to end world hunger but of cource it has to be sold (in other words poor countries get nothing and wont ever get anything).

Why would a cloned person not have a soul or personality? Having these things is what humanity is all about, cloning doesn't spiritually neuter anything.

It would be even better if they found a way to simply clone the meat from Cows without having to grow whole new ones. Of course, then we'd probably decide to kill off cows entirely, as they would be "useless".
Still, if cows were cloned, and cloning them meant they had no souls, (for no apparent reason) I suppose killing them would become that much easier. Perhaps its just a question of slaughterhouse concsience that makes people bother to clone cattle at all.

Oh, and deBulletDodger is correct about Capitalism starving the poor.

Cloneing a sole is something that can make big differnce's and confusion. If you believe life after death, and your sole enters a differnt life every time you die.

Lets say there are two people that are cloned(have soles). If one of them die,then his sole will have new life. Then the the person thats alive will have a son, and that child might even be the cloned sole that died. That means he's acully his own child!?
Thats what i think...

Yeah crazy stuff can happen.

Yes, soon they'll be cloning humans so the cannibals will be obese :lol:

Maybe there's just one big soul that starts a new life every time something's born! Perhaps this means everyone is actually everyone else as well. Oh, the joy and craziness.

"Sole" is spelled "Soul"
Unless we're all grossly misinterpreting your beliefs about shoe cloning.

'Cloneing a sole is something that can make big differnce's and confusion. If you believe life after death, and your sole enters a differnt life every time you die.'

Interesting. But you could say that because of all the deaths of people [and lack of bodies could lead to Souls just hanging around - i.e - Ghosts/Poltergeists etc] then the "lost Souls" would merely go into the bodies of the Clones.

Ye Gods, people here have absolutely no grasp of written English! Meant is not spelled mean't, where in the HELL did you get the idea that it had an apostrophe?! When talking about the bottom of your foot; shoe; or a type of flat fish, you use sole. When talking about the highly abstract and in no way proven concept of a being's quintessence, you use soul. SEE THE DIFFERENCE?! That's another one: difference. Note the spelling! AGGH! I just needed to get that off my chest. Those are just a few of the ones I noticed! Judas priest, you people are ignorant!

Ahem.

Now, as for the actual discussion: I don't really believe in souls, and even if I did, I wouldn't think animals would have them. As far as I'm concerned, what people perceive to be a "soul" is nothing more than self-awareness and sentience. And like I said, I don't find any problems with duplicating what is nothing more than a bunch of acids and proteins jumbled together in such a way as to create something living. If it were humans, I would mind, but like I said, I don't think anyone would ever even try to clone a complete human being, maybe just certain tissues and organs for people who need them.

PAY MORE ATTENTION IN ENGLISH CLASS, PEOPLE!!!

By definition a soul is not just self awareness it’s what makes you an individual different unique and who says being a sentient being has anything to do with such things. I don’t believe in the soul but it interests me religion in general does they block every corner and everyway to disprove God or God’s ah well I just wanted to say that.

Oh and thank you Volsung for commenting on what I said.

That's rich coming from they guy who couldn't spell "Mean't" even when he was correcting somebody on it. :rolleyes:

The most fundemental definition of a Soul is basically you. You are your soul occupying a phisical body that looks like you. Basically your invisible until you occupy the body that represents you.

Scientifically this whole soul thing exist mainly on the electromagnetic spectrum. Huge word I know! What the electromagnetic spectrum is, is all the different kinds of energys in the Universe from light waves to radio waves to even Micro waves the list goes on for infanity. We phisically see a tiny portion of the entire spectrum. Phisically we can see, hear, taste and feel and smell. Well we see light waves through mainly color and white light which is all the colors combined. Those colors is just a tiny part of the electromagnetic spectrum. There is an infanit number of other frequencys we can't ever phisically sense. Now the soul based upon this science would be on another frequency of the Electromagnetic Spectrum. It would exist on a frquency that we can't pick up because our senses simply doesn't allow it. Because we see only light and color we will never see or hear or touch a soul as long as we occupy our body. The closest thing to our soul is our body.

Here is a model of the electromagnetic spectrum. We only see color a tiny portion of this scale. As you see in this model there are other frequencys we can't sense and this is only a tiny portion of whats on this scale. This scale is actually infanit that there are waves we don't even know yet we only know so much. Its imposible to make an entire full scale model of the Electro Magnetic Spectrum because it goes onto infinaty. The size is astronomical and it just defies logic. But if you think about it Heven the after life God it all exist somewhere on this scale. Somewhere where we can't sense it. Scientist are turning into believers because of this.

http://www.ideum.com/images/portfoli...screenbig2.jpg

http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/emspectrum.jpg

Now the issue in cloneing for me is that its unwise to play God because we are dealing with powers and sciences that we do not understand and fully can possess. We are not capable of possessing the power of God. And when we do play with such sciences the consequences of such an act can be utterally disasterous. Its not logical and its imoral. Its artificial and completely fake. A clone will not have a soul because a soul is a gift from God and only God can make souls. You guys don't even understand what a soul is. A soul is not just your inner self or some obscur being occupying a body. Its more than that its you which makes you special in the eyes of God. Even for those whome don't believe in God your still special in the eyes of God. For God does not hate because God knows what he created he created something good. What we would be createing is an assembly line of robots with some personality traits. A soul goes way beyond all logic inwhich we as a human race created. There are greater powers at work in the Universe and for us to sit here and say that we can duplicate a soul and take for granted of those powers is dangerious and ilogical.

PA, I don't understand how cloneing humans would make them soulless. Why wouldn't god just give them a soul? Test-tube babies are created in almost the same fashion, yet they without a doubt resemble every other human, who all presumably have "souls". Twins share the exact same genetic material, sometimes more closely than a clone does its parent. Would one say that twins share the same soul because they are genetically identical? or is one of them spiritually devoid? If they both do indeed have souls, then genetics must not really play a role in who gets a chance at an afterlife.

Are cows Man-made animals? My answer would be no. They've been domesticated by us, and are thus quite different (in my opinion) than their wild ancestors, but at best this makes them man-made perversions. Why would cloning them affect their status as natural animals? I fail to see the mindset. If you want to see a Man-made animal, take a look at dogs. These have been domesticated and twisted and shaped so much that certain breeds hardly seem like dogs anymore. And their genetic ancestor was the wolf. A dachsund is a far cry from any wolf I've ever seen.

As for not having the power of God, I urge one to think on this: what other purpose does our culture of industrialization and scientific progress serve? Our culture of humans live in houses run on electricity. We have created these things to suit our needs. Of course, this is nothing more than something a bird might do--create its own habitat--but our culture takes it so much further. We want to live in a world where sickness and death are distant memories. Would that not be a Godlike existence? We can create new species with genetic training or modification, and we've long had the power to wipe other species out of existence. Is that not a Godlike ability? We're gaining control of every possible kind of energy source to use for our own ends. Is that not a godlike ability? We can bring people into the world, and we can take them out. We get to choose who lives and dies. Is this not a godlike ability? Face it: Humans are the new gods. and we're wankers.

Death. TheRaisin is going to blow a gasket if you keep insisting "Meant" is spelled "Mean't"

They do that already, it's called KFC. Notice how it's not called Kentucky Fried Chicken anymore? That's because they aren't actually chickens anymore, just living hunks of meat with no eyes or legs.

Anyways I think cloning anything is wrong. The sheep they cloned have been disease-ridden and ill, and haven't survived that long at all. And you want to EAT THAT????

Plus, if we start cloning animals, we'll throw the whole natural balance off.

I really hope you're kidding.

But on a lighter note, there isn't much natural balance to disrupt anymore. Maybe if we do that horrible, horrible thing up there, we won't have to disrupt the enormous amounts of land it takes to keep up herds of cattle. We'll just have huge, terrible factories with gibbering blobs of meat being fed intravenously through tubes.

Sorry no, at least not here in Canada, it was all over the news.

This is exactly right. I mean it's the most economical way right? They have no skeletal structures so the meat would be nice and tender, and most of the internal organs wouldn't be there so you could maximize the meat. And the absence of beaks and eyes etc. would mean that you wouldn't have to hire someone to cut them off/out. Of course, what would hot dogs be made of then?

I thought they change their name from Kentucky Fried Chicken to Kitchen Fresh Chicken cos now everybody knows anything "fried" really is really unhealthy.

But that's just me.

Wow. That really offends my sensibilities. And I say that only because I find it horrific that its actually being done, but then, when I think about it, it makes sense. I'd rather that be going on than what we've done to turkeys. How they've been bred and modified to be so rotund that they are no longer able to impregnate without artificial insemination. Meaning these Turkeys are so fat they can no longer have sex. At least these gibbering blobs don't have a brain or any way of knowing they were once supposed to be chickens. Its no worse than a single-celled organism when you get down to it. Still, I wouldn't want to spend my nights there with those...meatsacks.

And thats a brave new race of creatures spawned by Man's almighty hand of doom!

EDIT: I thought that too, Mac. I thought that too....

You still don't understand what a soul really is do ya? Its not a personality. A soul is more complicated than that. A soul is you and mainly a soul is a part of God. Everybody you and I are a part of God. In that sense we are the everlasting loveing gift of God. In a sense we are our own gift from God. A soul has nothing to do with genetics or personality or offspring or traits or what not. We are the soul that possess those traits and those traits we possess are other gifts from God its called blessings. So now we are the gift of God and God is giveing us other smaller gifts or blessings which identifies us as individuals.

Whoa to you if you seem to think we are individual gods! That is a very dangerous analogy. We have blessings from God which gives us our dyminion of this world. Thats why we can build great nations and destroy people and such. God is rightious and we are not because we are weak.

There is one and only one Almighty. And if you seem to think your a god then you have a rude awakening headed for you! I am not going to get into a religious debate. That is all I will say.

PA; as sound as your theory is, the human "soul" has nothing to do with electromagnetism. Your body is an electrochemical machine, and you are its' command processor. But you create your own commands, fuelled by curiosity, past events, and personal preferences. This is a point that robots and androids may reach - a point where they begin to disregard their preset commands in favour of making their own commands.

Life is an anomaly in the universe, and so is self awareness. It's a sign that the universe is an increadibly diverse place, and an indication that whatever we find elsewhere in the universe will most likely be increadibly fantastic.

Yeah could be elsewhere, in Canada it's not called that, it's just KFC. I saw an add on a US channel the other day, they kept calling what they were eating Kitchen Fresh Chicken and I had NO idea what they were on about.

But Canada is messed that way, bad regulatory gov't bodies here. I wouldn't eat anything unless it was locally grown, with the exception of fruit that comes from the US. But I'm a vegetarian so I don't have to worry about ingesting any of the hormones they inject into meat (like the turkeys). I just have to worry about all the hormones and pesticides they inject into fruit and veggies!

I'm not a vegetarian, and I'm not into organic food. I'm not really bothered about local produce either. People get paranoid about things like this but at the end of the day they are just wasting time they could spend enjoying themselves.

I personally don't eat chicken unless it is processed by a company that is inspected for hygene and stuff. McDonalds and Burger King are both under heavy watch for cleanliness and food quality, so I trust them.

I heard one particular story that made me laugh, about some person who bit into a chicken mcsandwich, only to find it covered in a mayonaise-like substance. Apparantly it was the pus from a chicken-ulcer. HOWEVER, before you go off and puke, I would like to point out that the chicken mcsandwich is actually processed, and is not really a real fillet.

In actual fact, all the parts that COULD have a chicken ulcer on are removed and sold as fillets. And not even those would go through, because they would be visible. Parts like the head and feet are completely removed before the chicken gets anywhere even near processing, so any stories of heads and feet being found in the chicken mcsandwich are also lies.

Interesting how the stories and claims compaire with the way things are really done isn't it?

wont it get rid of disease in cattle, like mad cow disease.

*thinks of a perticular Alan Partridge episode about mad cow disease*

ahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahah! Amazing.....

Totally agree with your statement here. I just can not stand the taste or texture of meat, hence why I don't eat it. Never even liked it as a child. And these days, fast food could quite possibly be some of the most hygenic food you could eat!

I still can't get over this with you PA, you're so godamned genuine. Everything you say is said with true, honest, genuine belief. And it's ridiculous.

Though you didn't answer the main question:
No, Volsung is correct. We can even manipulate the body to die slowly, we can engineer various diseases and viruses that we can slowly spread out and decimate entire populations. We can laugh powerful weapons and wipe out entire segments of the world in just seconds.
We can genetically engineer creatures to fit in with our artificial surroundings. Isn't that what God did when designing the animals?

We are no longer weak. If we wanted, we could obliterate Mars. We could obliterate the Moon and the Earth. We can wipe out entire species and we can genetically alter them so they become new species. We can travel through space. What makes any other god so different? We can manipulate various points of the weather with the advanced machinery. We can cause Earthquakes. We can place a genetically altered race on Mars, watch its progress as Gods and make their primitiveness pray to us as gods.
If they disobey us, we can send probes to kill the ones who do so. If they disobey a rule... such as not eating an apple, we can kill them all. Thats if we were to put genetically altered humans on an empty island or a oxygen covered mars.