Oddworld Forums - Mudokon Temples

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How the hell did they build structures that large? I was playing AO and noticed how huge the temple in Paramonia was. It was several hundred feet tall. Was it a massive group effort like the Great Pyramids? Is it just an inexplainable mystery? Does anyone even care?

I would have to go along the lines of massive group effort. But how would they do it without math and surveying ability? The Romans were able to build without math (well, without GOOD math).They must just have a knack for buildin' stuffs out of wood.

I wouldn't want to know how they were made, but knowing who they were made by I would want to know (do we presume it was ancient Mudokons, or?). I guess it's one of things I'd rather not have explained, to keep the mysticism.

Alcar...

Maybe the Guardians helped them, that is what I think. Who knows? I doubt even Lorne does, because knowing won't really improve anyones quality of life.

I believe that mudokons have super abilyties that they can move huge objects like mountains. It said something like that on oddworld.com.

The Mudokons had a most proud an ancient lagacy that was robbed from them by the Magog Cartel.

Their past was similar to that of the ancient cultures of our world. Their ability to build such awesome structures is most certaintly indeed not far fetched. The Mudokons used the land to build their sacred structures and they were a once proud race whome had great craftsman of their golden age.
Now only the reminance of that proud ancient Mudokon past dots the Oddworldian landscape.

They built them a very long time ago, when they still knew all of their arts, language and the like. This was before their slavery.
In their golden age, they most likely built such great structures in a similar fashion to the way that the aztecs and other ancient human culture built their marvels.

Merely speculation though.

It's interesting that they built such monumental structures to last for such a long time when it appears that the majority of their living structures are built for temprorary housing at best. Since we know that there used to be many tribes, could the temples have been a way to solve disputes and keep harmony? Even though there were different temples for different tribes, we aren't sure how large the tribes were, or wether they were composed of several groups or if they were chiefdoms. I mean, are the natives we know of Hunters and Gatherers? Horticulturalists? We saw some transhumance herders, but could that really be the original lifestyle?

I'm glad you've mentioned the temples Joe, I'd never really thought about the practical side of creating such large permanent structures for peoples I had always believed to be mostly nomadic in nature.

Maybe they were assisted by aliens like some people believe the pyramids were :p

You know Volsung, I never really thought of them as nomadic. That makes sense in a way. I suppose if they're nomadic, then building such huge permanent buildings is a monument (excuse de pun) to the enormity of their spiritual nature. But that was probably what you was tryin' ta say anyways.

If you look, there are roots growing in and out of the monoliths of the monsaic lines, but there are also pieces of ground suspended in the air by amazing root systems. It's highly probable that this shows a greater way of constructing art, over massive lengths of time by slowly "pruning" nature into the living shapes of the amazing giant Mudokon warriors or the Scrabs and Paramites to which the lines were built. Though I do agree that the gargantuan statues that adorne the entrances to the lines appear to be carved, but we know that levitation is not beyond the ability of mudokons, individually. Maybe a single mudokon could spend a lifetime on a masterpiece of that grandure, with the ability to rise and lower and perfect his work. Carving it from top to bottom, rather than bringing in resources from the planet to build upward as humans do. It's much the same concept as the statues of terra featured down the road, except with rock. ...a sort of bonzai Collosus.

They most likely used their abilities to move mountains. Mudokons of today are very different from their native ancesters. For one in the ancient times Mudokons never talked in the normal english dialect. They communicated with each other through profund musical whistling. Believe it or not the whistle is part of a vast Mudokon language that was powerful. I read something about a while back on the official site.

As usual, its possible that everyone has realised this already but I'll try anyway

You know, if you look at the outside of the Monsaic Lines as abe enters (in the FMV) it looks like a big spherical temple but once the level starts it looks like he's outside. But if you look at the production design art it looks like the inside of a huge round cave.

So my question is: are the monsaic lines in one HUGE sphere or are they in the open?

I think the name "Monsaic Lines" is misleading. I could be wrong, but I came to the conclusion that the "Monsaic Lines" was just a level title, such as "Stockyard Escape", which as well all know, takes place in both the Stockyards and Free Fire Zone, not Stockyard Escape.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Monsaic Lines level takes place in the Monsaic Temple, which is the huge thing Abe enters. The Monsaic Sanctum lies somewhere within.

Alcar...

So the monsaic temple is the huge sphere? So you are saying that the whole level is inside the temple, not outside in the open?

It looks that way. Especially since Abe starts the Monsaic Lines level with a huge entrance behind him. Which was where he had entered in the CG movie beforehand.

Alcar...

Yes, I believe the the Monsaic Temple is a huge, spherical, and overall moon-like temple that is suspended by a mix of the natural occurences of the earth and mudokon spiritual power. The inside of the temple is gigantic, made up of mostly naturally eroded aswell as shaped stone and earth. Atleast that's what I heard somewhere.

Maybe they were assisted by aliens like some people believe the pyramids were :p

Or maybe you should look at it backwards... maybe they helped us with the pyramids... :P

Yes, Havoc, your theory is good, but I'd think the industrialists are the only ones capable of going to other planets and why would they help us build pyramids when they could use us as slaves?

Egyptains built the Pyramids with rather bad maths......

That sums it up all the way SS. Though where is it located? I don't think the map seems right because remember when Abe fell off the cliff and hit his head and the Big Face said he was dead?:lol: hehe it ryemes:lol:

The mosiac Temple was right there when Abe got up. If thats the case could the Mosiac Temple be next to Rupture Farms or perhaps under Rupture farms? deep in these vast catacombs? Afterall Abe fell down a cliff right outside of the stockyards and the Stockyards surround Rupture Farms. With Abe falling down a cliff right outside the Stockyards at the bottom of the cliff there could have been a huge cave opening into this vast catacomb with the trail leading right up to the Mosiac Temple. That seems logical. It also means that Rupture Farms in this case would have been built on top of the sacred temple. It reminds me how Corpret builders build the industrial facilities over ancient Indean mounds or sacred lands. I would really like to see a 3D map of Oddworld and Abe and Munch's travels just to see what the over all landscape looks like from an aireal and side view perspective. Just to get a feel of the the type geography Oddworld has.

In Munch it seemed they were on a high land of some type like the high plains type of region. But in AO and AE it seemed it was lowlands.

http://depthsofoddworld.com/images/E...udos_small.jpg

It's not 3D though :p
Anyway, it looks like the stockyards are much bigger, or the cliff was alot steeper :fuzconf:

I believe mudokons could have used meetles to lift the statues.

Ah. How do we know that Abe stayed in the same place at the Free Fire Zone? For all we know, he was transported by Big Face to the entrance of the Monsaic Temple during the time they were both shrouded in that errie yellowish mist?

Alcar...

Well yeah of course that map isn't 3D. I am talking about that they should make a map that is 3D. That whole region of Oddworld must be a vast industrial waste land which are the stock yards and free fireing zone. After all Rupture Farms is the biggest meat processing plant in all of Oddworld.

I bet in the center its Rupture Farms then you got the stench and filth ridden Stock Yards that actually stretch for miles around Rupture Farms. In the game it just dident seem like miles or km. Could you imagine playing the Stock Yards in 3D though? It would be like walking into a huge maze of an industrial waste land. That would be so cool!

very true, even if they don't seem to move...

anyway, I made a work about StoneHenge, that was build by about 300 men
with a bit of technique nearly everithing is possible.
and some mudokon tribes, especially the Mudomos, were great builders with lots of experience

I always believed Abe was teleported to the Mosaic Lines by Big Face... even the first time I ever saw the fmv...

Is that map made by Max the Mug? If it is then it looks very prefetional!

Theres this pic of mudokon village on MO on PS2. It had Alfs rehab & tea, rain maker and at the background it this temple or something that looks just like Paramoina temple.Then i thuoght it was, it had same trees and rocks. After i looked at the map and Paramiona was far from spoochshrub forest.
Then i went on Munchonthis.com and at the background it had the same bulding as in the background of the village, excep it was smaller.

The map is official. No forumer made it.

Oh, and that structure is probly that Mudokon hut shown in the production image.

Is that map made by Max the Mug? If it is then it looks very prefetional!

well this is the latest version of the map, there were 2 versions before
Max was the one who corected version 1.5 of the map for OWI
then OWI released the final version of the map with kudos to MAx

What corrections did he make?

hehehe, lots of them!
http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=7533

In Abe's Oddysee, Abe got to Paramonia and Scrabania via wells in Monsaic Lines, yet the map connects Paramonia and Scrabania to RuptureFarms. There should be no connection between the two, since Abe returned to Monsaic Lines after completing both Paramonia and Scrabania.
We can see during the Necrum level of Abe's Exoddus that the Mudomo and Mudanchee Temples are not far from Necrum Mines, meaning the Mudomo and Mudanchee Vaults are underneath Necrum. The map places them far apart.
After destroying SoulStorm Brewery, Abe returns to Necrum, which is not shown on the map.
The Big Well is just beyond the SpooceShrub Forest level in Munch's Oddysee, but the map shows a considerable difference between them. You can see the ledge that Abe jumps into the well from at the end of the SpooceShrub Forest level through the tunnel, but much of the Wilderness Region does look similar.
Munch began his story in the river (hence the green water), not on land as shown.
Abe visited the Raisin in the morning (presumably, though not necessarily, the day immediately after Munch was abducted), and then goes to the SpooceShrub Forest and the Big Well. This journey, according to the map, takes less time than it does for Munch to be flown from the Scrab trap to the Big Well. This is ridiculous, and you can see that the Labs moves very swiftly in the Escape! movie. It is possible that wind conditions slowed the Labs down, and if point four, above, is taken into account, then the problem is reduced.
After Abe and Munch bumped into each other and fell from Vykkers Labs, they landed in the SpooceShrub Forest (as proved by the article on Oddworld.com), not next to the Big Well as shown on the map. This must be quite a distance, since we see quite a wide area in the Escape! video but no forest.
Munch and Abe spent five levels getting back to the Raisin's Cave, but the map does not show Munch to have visited the cave at all.
The dialogue in the Abe's Exoddus Vision movie implies that Abe and his friends took just one day to get from Monsaic Lines/the Sanctum to Necrum Mines. That means Necrum and Monsaic are about 12 miles apart. Transferring that scale onto the Mudos Map and the Oddworld Map to the right by using major land features such as rivers and coasts, we can calculate Oddworld's diameter to be about 3,411 miles. It's very approximate, I know, but that's less that half of the Earth's diameter, and Oddworld is ten times the size of the Earth.

Assuming that that means ten times in volume, Oddworld's diameter would be 17,000 miles. If it's in surface area, it would be 25,000 miles, and if Oddworld's diameter is 10 times that of the Earth's, it would be 79,000 miles. These distances are far too much an increase to be dealt with by simply moving Monsaic and Necrum closer together.

My best suggestion is to have a distance between the two similar to the distance between RuptureFarms and Necrum in V1.0 of the map (although RuptureFarms will obviously have to become Monsaic Lines), and fiddle about instead with making Mudos a lot smaller on the Oddworld Map. How much smaller depends upon which way Oddworld is larger than Earth.
'Rupture Farms' should be 'RuptureFarms'.
The Mudomo 'Vault' should be the Mudomo 'Vaults'. The same goes for the Mudanchee Vault.
'Feeco Depot' should be either 'FeeCo Depot' or 'Fee Co. Depot'.
'Soulstorm' should be 'SoulStorm'.
'Spooceshrub' should be 'SpooceShrub'.
'The Raisin Cave' isn't necessarily wrong, but all other Oddworld material suggests it should be 'The Raisin's Cave' or 'The Almighty Raisin's Cave'.

Man, Max...you can find something wrong with everything can't you :p

Maxie boy is picky, I bet ya that he's still not satisfied with the latest version of the map. :fuzwink:

Don’t pick fault man its Oddworld

what does that mean?

He means that Max shouldn't have corrected OWI. He's saying it should have been accepted as truth.
He's wrong, things have to be corrected, if they are not correct. Otherwise, they'd be contradicting themselves.

thanx Esus, I do completly agree with you ;)

I just don't understand how such a cool map could be made with such poor distances. Every part of it could be taken as absolute truth, but it's obvious that the area that Abe, alone, covered on foot could not possibly be the distance covered on the map in the time alotted. Which is why I've come up with a new theory. Abe can teleport... and they thought it would be cool if they never told us... like it was left out of the FMV's... oooh yeah.

uh... why do they walk trough the desert if they can teleport?

He kept it a secret.:p