Is it wrong to eat Oysters?
 

Oysters are under the animalia kingdom, but I don't know anything about their nervous system.

Anyone care to explain?

ok ill tell you something as sson as i find my enciclopidea

I looked it up in what few reference books I had, none of them said anything of brains but you probably should find conclusive evidence.

Hello, I'm a newcomer here so I don't know if you would care about what I have to say. However, oysters are simple animals biologically speaking. They don't have an actual brain, but they can feel pain, as they do have a nervous system. While it probably doesn't feel good to be cooked alive, their is nothing morally worse about eating oysters over any other animal, but I personally hate their taste. Blech, just give me a hotdog, no one even knows what that stuff is made out of:D .

Welcome to the forums, Scabcakes.

Would oysters actually feel pain, though? Or is it just a simple response to stimuli, comparable to how a venus fly trap entombs an insect?

Why do you care so much Sid? Are'nt you a vegeterian?

I'm vedgie so don't say bad stuff about being one...lol....scabcakes (was it a a spellin mistake or somat?)

I regard the Oyster Eater as the Victim, rather than the Criminal... ;)

Of course it's pain. Venus Fly Traps have no nerves; that's the difference between simple response to stimuli and actual feeling...

Danny, have you read Peter Singer's book, Animal Liberation?

I can't say I've read the book, but the way I see it, if it has Pain Receptors, it can feel Pain...

Pain receptors is such a strong term. It isn't known if the extent to which an Oyster uses its nerves reach pain, or if they're simply for muscle retractions. If oysters don't have brains, how can their nervous system process anything close to what can be called pain?

I don't know, I'm not a Biologist. I'm not going to eat Oysters (or any other kind of animal), whatever the verdict...

EDIT: Anyway, haven't you read Leviticus? Eating Oysters is strictly forbidden! Next you'll be saying blasphemous things like "Homosexuality isn't evil" or something like that... ;)

Oh, I must have had the wrong idea. ;)I'm with you, as Singer says, it's easy to avoid eating them. Or at least when the craving for smoked oysters subsides...

I feel so guitly talking about the morality of eating oysters as I frequent a chinese restaurant and gorge myself on them, sometimes scarfing pounds at a crack. i will say this though, they taste ****ing awesome!

The oyster
From what I read, it seems that the oyster doesn't have any central nerve system which could be used to store experiences, memories or process nerve stimuli, but I can't draw a line to say if it "feels" pain or not. What is "pain", actually? Isn't it a human concept?(not rethorical question).

BTW, I enjoy eating oysters, fresh ones with some drops of lemon juice. Sometimes you can even see it reacting to the juice, before you detach it from it's shell and swallow it... :fuzcool:

That's why I was thinking, along with "fear" (possible other things too, but it's the only thing springing to mind here).


- TyA

I was wondering that when I was reading through this topic.

No, it's a word humans use to name the unpleasant sensations associated with tissue damage. Thanks for the info on the oyster, by the way.

I don't know because I never eat oysters yuck! I don't like oysters! I like sea food but I just can't stand oysters!:D

Moral issues are not on my mind when I consider eating oysters. I try not to eat anything that looks as though it's fallen out of a hippopotamus's nose.

I enjoy oysters. I don't have any evidence to back that up because it's merely a matter of opinion. The first time I had them, I thought I was going to see it again all over the floor. But after a few times (i have demanding parents when it comes to food), I started to REALLY like them. I like them best with horse radish, lemon drop, and on a cracker. The HOOTERS oysters are the best!
...though the oysters arent the only reason I go there...:D

Why is it wrong to eat oysters, since when is it wrong to eat any animal(living creature). It can only be considered wrong by how that piece of meat was obtained (Through large amounts of processing and animal cruelty.)note:Animals do eat each other......

Morphius, some of us here believe that it is morally wrong to sacrifice other beings for pleasure. Obviously your morals differ, but that's the way it is.

Out of interest Sydney, are you a vegan or vegetarian?

I was amazed to find out how many products contain animal products, rather than merely produce. Cheese has cow stomach lining, I believe, and hot dogs are actually made from meat. Really.

Not vegetarian cheese or vegetarian hot dogs. They contain vegetarian substitues.

Um, yea. I don't see how people here call eating pleasure... if I wouldn't eat, I'd die. *whithers* And since I have a sense of self-preservation, I will eat. I'm actually more carnivorous (I love meat), if such a term can be slapped upon a human being.

"Don't kill a non-human animal unless it attacks you or for food" is a rule I live after. It's a pretty natural rule. Can't see a random animal running around biting other animals' throats for the fun of it.

The only thing that bothers me is, like morphius said, the way it is obtained. I've heard really cruel stories about animals being held - but I don't see a reason to cut down on my like of meat because of that. There's only a very thin thread connecting the two, and I won't condemn anyone who eats meat as a promoter of animal cruelty or something like that, because that's just wrong in my opinion.


- TyA

Yes, you would die if you didn't eat, but you don't have to eat meat.

I liked meat before as well, but you grow out of it so quickly! Now I'm disgussed even by the smell of it and I've only been vegetarian for three months...

1. Do you have a sense of smell?

2. That's precicely why it's pleasurable to eat (certain foods). If you enjoy eating food then you will eat and, hence, survive and your genes will be passed on to the next generation.

Sydney, why exactly do you want to know more about Oyster's nervous system? I suppose it is to find out if they feel pain or not, and therefore know if it is wrong or right to eat them. But I can't see clearly the conection here.What exactly is considered an unpleasant sensation? How do you catrgorize an unpleasant sensation? Isn't it another human concept? You could say that a stimulus causes unpleasant sensations if the animal tries to avoid it, because it can cause tissue damage. Could it be a just a simple response to stimuli developed through the evolution of the animal's species, comparable to how a venus fly trap entombs an insect?

Sorry about all the questions above. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

I eat meat because I just like it. But some people don't want it because they feel it is wrong to eat meat. I don't know I guess thats what it is or they just don't like meat. The important thing here is that we all have our own individualtiy and if we don't want to eat meat and be a vegeitarren then all power to ya. Same goes for people like myself who do eat meat. We live the way we live and we eat the way we eat. It's a fact of life. :fuzblink:

Ok... ay. Let me rephrase that: Do you think eating is only pleasure and thus wrong? It seems to me a lot of people seem to argue like that.

As for only eating plants - so? You still kill something. No one can prove to you plants don't have feelings too, they may just be unable to express it. Your point?


- TyA

An unpleasant sensation is defined by a sensation that is unpleasant. I can't put it simpler. It's not a human concept, but it is a human term given to describe what most in the animal kingdom are capable of experiencing.

The connection between the capacity to experience pain and whether or not it is right to eat them is an issue of morals, I accept that your moral code is different to mine in that respect. I didn't quite get some of your questions so if I didn't answer them properly, feel free to ask again. :)Would you have any qualms with me eating my babies, in addition to the babies of others?Invisible unicorns might exist in the amazon, but until you have scientific data that can back up your claims, there's no point in using it as an argument.

Defending meat-eating with the "survival" argument doesn't work - the other vegetarians on this board and I are proof that one can survive healthily and happily without meat in the diet. Some of us believe that sacrificing the lives of other beings for pleasure is wrong. Survival and pleasure are two whole different reasons for eating meat. You'd need a damn good reason to be eating meat if you were doing it for survival.

Ok, I thought my question was ambiguous, sorry. I mean: which of animals sensations can be defined as unpleasant? Who will define that?

I completely agree to this, Sydney. So, what kind of living beings are you refering to? Only the ones that posses meat in their body structure? Damn, this message board is really slow when you need fast responses. It would be much better if we were discussing it in real-life...:fuzblink:

Racists *winks*

I think plants have feelings too. *shrug* I've observed an interesting phenomenom: Two extremes are always the same in effect. The people who think neither animals nor plants have feelings eat what they get. The people who think both critters have feelings eat what they get, too - or, well, I suppose you could always commit suicide. v_v

I think I have made my point, Sydney. As to reply to:
>> Invisible unicorns might exist in the amazon, but until you have scientific data that can back up your claims, there's no point in using it as an argument. <<
I really don't see your point. I may not have a backup to say plants have feelings, but do you have one to prove they don't? *shrug* ;)


- TyA

The sensations one would feel while having a limb sawn off, whether they be human or otherwise, would be sufficient to call unpleasant. I guess I'm talking about the capacity for such unpleasant sensations as opposed to experiencing them being the criteria for which a being is judged.Yes. I'm talking about living beings for who we have reason to believe can experience pain.I don't think you have. Unless your point is that people eat what they eat, which was obvious anyway.My point is that you can say anything you like, but there's no point in using claims such as "plants have feelings" as a basis for an argument when scientific evidence points to the contrary. I can say with confidence that plants don't have feelings. Feelings are associated with the nervous system. Plants don't have a nervous system, so we can safely say that plants don't have feelings. Unless you have reasons for us to believe otherwise, why bring it up? You could spew forth any number of similar claims, but the burden of proof would always rest on you.

In my view, "pain" is a sensation that is felt by the body as an advace warning system, allowing it to react to a potentially damaging event. For instance, if you touch a hot saucepan on the hob with your fingers - your skin registers the pain, and the brain processes the stimuli as "this sensation I am feeling means the body will be damaged" and takes actiob to avoid the stimulus by jerking the hand away from the source of the pain (the hot pan). Obviously not everyone can react like that - drop a lobster into a pan of boiling water and it will feel pain, until it cook, but it's not in any position to go running away from it.

Any creature with a nervous system has the system for communication between groups of cells and organs. As an aside, "pain" is not like "fear" - fear is an emotion, and likely connected to higher brain functions, but until someone gets into an oysters brain and tells us that "no, oysters conclusively do not feel emotions" I'm not going to say anything esle about that. Pain, on the other hand, is carried in specialised nerve fibres (so far as I've been able to gather from my lectures in physiology, anyway - not oyster physiology, but you get the idea... ;) ) which can be seen and identified.