Hell
 

I always wondered how hell came about. It seems to be one of the most recent additions to the christian church that I can think of. in the entire old testament ,hell isn't mentioned once. I know it seems weird to me to write this topic, but where did the idea of hell come from. all religions hav one form of punishment or other if you,"don't to the line" so to speak. From being turned into a really shitty animal or being thrown into big pit of firey badness, religions all have them. it always seemed a form of intimidation to me,Believe in fill in the blank or go to hell"know what i mean. So, if their was no hell or bad hot place, would you still be a christian? How did you people get the balls tell god to screw off?Arn't you even vaguly afraid of eternal torture?

Many people on this board have no religion. Religion doen't mean only throwing away the thought of some almighty good being, it also mean throwing away whatever else the religion has. I believe Hell was just a way to intimidate people into believing in God.

Okay this is what I believe and what i think most of you think too, I don't believe in God but I believe in the concept and by that I mean believing in God and fearing hell as probably kept a lot of people from doing really bad things like killing themselves and other people and given them confidence to do things.

What is Hell? Life.
All kidding aside. I also believe the concept of 'hell' was used to intiminate people into joining their religion and to be 'good boys and girls'.
Feh...life is hell enough if you ask me...

Hell was a way of getting money for the church. Anyone who's seen the first season Blackadder episode "The Archbishop" will know what I mean...

hel is a norse goddess who as we all know got sent to Niflheim which is often refered to as hel also if you don't die in combat you go there for eternity. hel is exept for being a punishment is the opposite of hell it is basicly the north pole in winter dark and cold(if you die in battle you go to valhalla where you kill people who are then resarected to be killed again and at night sit around eating). when it moved to christianity was probably during the norman invasions.

Not all churches are all about money.

Hell is real. Hell was not meant for us. Is was meant for Satan and 1/3 of the angels who follwed him. Now, it's for people too who rebel against God.

Not just for people who rebel against God. Apparently, it's also for people whose parents decided not to Baptise them. Unless, of course, you think that being born to those parents is an act of Rebellion...

Um yeah, it is people who rebel against God and are against him.

Just because your baptize, doe not necessarily mean your going to heaven. SOme so called christians who say they are with God, and who are hhypocrites, go to hell too.

Yes, but those who are unbaptised go to Hell without fail, even if they are the nicest people in the world.

Statikk, I thought you said in another one of your topics that you didn't want to start another religious debate.

The bible refers to a place called hell only as a mechanism to seperate the true Christians from the false. Obviously, if you're a Christian because you don't want to burn eternally in a pit of burning sulphur, you should rethink your position...

[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: Sydney ]

Hell is a Metaphor, Man has created hell through time with myths and story's, God has not created hell man has in his own mind, therefore it does not really exist, it just made up to frighten people that to bad things or people that don't follow the so called "10 commandments", i'd say don't waste u'r whole life thinking about it, just live u'r life that's all.

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Surfacing ]

ha ha if it was in the new testament like Statikk said then nobody noticed the huge error in my post that my explanation is off by about 1000 years and 500 miles.

I hope you were being sarcastic, cuz Pinky can't prove or deny that. The thought that devout people of other religons going smack-down to hell is absurd. But, then again, I can't prove or deny that either. If ppl go to Hell or not could all depend on faith. If you believe Hell exists, than it does for you. If you believe in Nirvana and spiritual enlightenment than you could possibly reach it someday. If you believe in reencarnation, than perhaps you shall come back to Earth and start anew when you die. Faith gives something back to us, the gift of goodwill and kindness. And even if there is nothing after death, you can die knowing that you have done everything you can to be a good person. And if our hopes of paradise aren't granted, being a good person is a reward in it's self.

What I meant was that topics that get out of hand and abusive should be closed. I don't see anything wrong with this topic, as everyone is being cordial and cool headed. Anyway, I think that the idea of someone being born into a family who doesn't believe in the christian god but still wanting to believe happens all the time. If they really believed they would get baptised. I knew a person who didn't believe and be baptised until they were thirteen. People who really believe want the gift of baptism.

If God is all-forgiving, then why would there be a hell? I mean, if you're an athiest all your life, then you die and meet God and you're like, "Whoops"... Wouldn't God forgive you?

in early christianity it said that it would punish you for your crimes then you go to heaven and not be punished for eternity.

If your more on the Heathenly (means Heavenly) side you go to God's sancuary. If your more on the demoentic (means evil) , you go to Saitin's Kindom.........

...Mudokon101

I meant that, according to Christianity, you have to be baptised to go to heaven.

Statikk, do you believe there is a Heaven and a Hell? If so, would you exclude people of other religions from Heaven, even if they were incredibly virtuous? As an example, would Mohandas Gandhi be sent to Hell?

Look, I'm a christian, maybe not as much as I used to, but I still definatly believe in god and hell.If god was completely all forgiving, then that means truely evil people (hitler, being my prime example. Have you seen the pictures of what he did to the jews? Hell is too good for him) could just waltz into heaven. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

So are you grouping Atheists along with Hitler? That's a BAD mistake, Buddy...

*feels balls*
I didn't tell God to 'screw off', actually, I haven't said that to anyone (at least not for a looooong time). Not one of my favourite insults.
And I can't say anything to God because I don't belive in it.

Eternal torture? Nah. If there turns out there is a God and I've been wrong about it God can hardly blame me for not beliving in Christianity, the evidence to support Christianity is hardly convincing for a free-thinker like me.

No. Because what you did in this life, refelects what your going to spend eternity.

You can ask for forgiveness, get baptized and submit your life to God now. But when you die, that's it. It's too late.

Yes, because that means, that you don't want Christ in your life, and your not sorry for what you have done in your life.

If your baptized, it's like saying

"I submit my life to Christ, I don't want to be the old person anymore. I believed that you died in order to save my life. I want to be obedient"

Which also, you would have better communication with God because God does not hear a sinner's prayer.

Because in order to get to God, you have to go through Christ.

Rettick, there will be no one who is perfect and the nicest person in the world except Christ. Everyone has fallin short on the glory of God.

So SeaRex, I canProve that.

So people like Hitler, are not in heaven.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

so basically...you are saying that me, Rettick, Gluk, and a few others are all going to 'hell' because we don't believe in your 'god'? Thats F*cked up. 'God' gave us free will, and the free will to not believe in him.
You said before in another topic that you were not forcing your religion on us. Well saying sh*t like that is forcing your religion upon us IMHO.
Here's something for you to chew on: There are indian tribes in South America that have never been exposed to 'your' religion...tell me...are they going to hell?
Here's something else that bugs me.
I know of several Christians (one of them very religious...almost got me to read the bible again more carefully. Note the 'almost'.) that play RP games (AD&D, OW RPG and the like). Now I know there are 'christians' out there that say that playing games like that condems you to 'hell'. Tell me...do you feel this way? (just curious).

so pinky what your saying is that babys who get babtised without realiseing it's "importance" are thinking and I quote "I submit my life to Christ, I don't want to be the old person anymore. I believed that you died in order to save my life. I want to be obedient"

Babies don't have the 'awareness' (for lack of a better term) to know what baptism means...so how can they understand what the ritual means? I think its more for the peace of mind of the parents if you ask me...
Oh and here's a shocker for you...I was baptised and I went through 'Conformation' (I don't remember what it is called exactly...but it is supposidly the last step in becoming full Roman Catholic). The 'big' difference was that I was forced to go through with it. Well yes I technically willing as I went along with it...but thats because I didn't have the guts to tell my parents that I didn't want to be a part of their religion.
This goes back to the free will thing...would 'god' really try to force someone to follow him? That sounds like a bully if he does.

I'm not telling you what to do Dragondon so stop putting words in my mouth. I'm just telling you what thus said the Lord so there is no need to get mad at me.

Yes, God did give you free will. In order to go to heaven though, you have to believe in him. How can you say you wanna go to heaven when you don't even believe in a heaven? My Gosh, it's like you want people to force you to believe in christianity. I don't. You can believe in whatever I'm jsut telling you the truth.

I mean, it's not too late or anything. If your dead, it's too late because God's going to judge us what we did on this Earth.


No, playing games are not evil. Unless it's gambling, casinos, tarot readings, and all those psychic games. Unless they don't lead you into sin or anything.

People who never were exposed to believe in God, well, God has a say on that. Just like he has a say in people who want to be with God, but die before even getting baptized. I'm not sure on that either.

Well, here's something for you to chew on:

What would you do if you find out there is a God? Are you going to try to argue him down? When if there is a hell? People getting tourtured for eternity? Are you going to argue him then also if you never believed in him?

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

Really? Did you actually read this in the Bible, or did you just get that impression over-devout Christians? Perhaps it is only Christians that go to Heaven or Hell. That would partially explain the whole Baptism = Heaven thing. Mabey ppl of other religions just die. Or perhaps they go to their own veiw of Heaven or Hell. I, of course, can't back any of this up though...

you're doing it again Pinky. By 'claiming' your religion is truth you are forcing your religion upon us. Those two things I quote are prime examples. You probably just don't see it that way.
If you are going to say 'I am telling you the truth' put it in the context 'I am telling you the truth as it is to me and my religion' or something like that.

As for your question....

I don't think anything will happen. If there is a god, he would judge me for what I have done in my life...not by what religion I follow. As long as you are a good person and do no serious wrong (ie: murder) you would be fine.

pinky how did you get anywhere that they wanted to be forced to be christians they've been saying the exact opposite for quite a while now.

I did'nt say that I was forcing her or anything. I don't think you can comprehend what I'm saying or. Don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of doing it. You can't accuse me. Dragondon what's your deal? You just don't get it.

No Pinky...you are the one that doesn't get it. You say you are open minded and tolerent of others beliefs...yet you keep trying to shove down our throats how we 'will go to hell for not believing in your god'. What about all those people who followed the pagan relgions before Christianity even came into existence? Are they in hell now? I seriously doubt it.
Religion is nothing but a means to inform people of whats right and wrong...it doesn't matter what religion you follow (save for a few...like Diabloism), as long as you are a good person you will reach whatever 'heaven' your religion teaches or you believe in. (whether it is reincarnation, eternal paradise etc.) What of those that don't follow a set religion, like me? I think reincarnation will apply there.

1. People are baptised as babies. There is no "old person" for them to renounce. They haven't a clue what's happening to them.

2. I think that meeting God is undeniable proof that he exists, so I will therefore begin to believe in him. I might try and argue him down, but only if he says something I disagree with. Up to now, however, I have been offered no proof of his existance [not even by you, even though you claim to have proof], therefore I do not believe in him.

3. When I die, I will find out whether or not there is a Heaven or Hell. When I die, it will no longer be a case of Faith, it will be a matter of Observation. If it turns out that there is a Heaven, then of course I would want to go in there, and I think that God should make the decision on whether or not to allow me into Heaven based on what kind of person I am, not based on whether or not I believed in him or not. If he really wanted us to believe in him, he would have given us some proof. What is the purpose behind all this secrecy? Does he mean to test our faith? If so, what difference does it make whether or not a person is able to believe in something they have no proof of simply because they are told that it exists? Surely people who believe in other religions would also pass that test!

4. Up until a few minutes ago, I was under the impression that Heaven was for Good People and Hell was for Bad People. Now, however, Pinky has explained to us that Heaven is, in fact, for people who "want Christ in their lives", and Hell for those who don't. This puts things in quite a different perspective. Let me give you an example:

Hitler was a devout Christian. He had definately said that he "wanted Christ in his life". Therefore, by your definition, he went to Heaven.

Gandhi was not Christian. Therefore, by your definition, he went to Hell.

You will, of course, deny that you said this, and claim that Hitler went to Hell. But to do so, you would have to admit that Heaven and Hell is not about being Christian, it is about what sort of life you have lead. If this is true, then you will have to let Viruous Non-Christians into Heaven, and then your argument comes tumbling down...

No, your the one who does'nt get it! I find it sad too. I have family members who are either atheist or christian or buddist and I have no problem for it. I was just telling you what I read in the bible and what God has said. I'm not judging and you and saying that you were going to hell. WHy do you get so mad all the time when people say something like that? You say your open-minded to other people's beliefs? Here's you arguing me about some evolution when I don't even wanted to believe in it in the first place. It does'nt make you the better person because you where trying to convert me to evolution.
I mean my goodness, God is a loving God but he is a jealous God and judgement. So you argue to God about Heaven and Hell. There's no way to try to talk to you anyways. So do whatever, I don't care. You have a choice in life. My choice is to follow God no matter what you say.

I am not trying to 'force' you to believe in what I believe. Stop saying that I am. You believe in god? Fine..I am happy for you, even if I do see it as silly as you think evolution is.
Its fine to express your beliefs, but there is a fine line between 'expressing' and 'trying to convert'. I don't believe I am trying to 'convert' you...I am just trying to get you to see that you seem to be trying to convert me.

I'll take the good old gods any day in egyptian they weighed your goodness and badness therefor you did not have to believe in egyptian to go to the underworld. in greek you just sort of went on living. in norse it was whether or not you died fighting (a pretty easy one for the vikings). sorry but I don't know about celtic or anything like that. also pinky your saying I'm not forcing you to believe in my god but if you don't you'll go to hell.

1. And yet still you believe they're going to Hell? That sounds quite like having a problem with it to me...

2. But you have chosen to believe it. Stop trying to get rid of responsibility for what you say.

3. Yes you were. You made it quite clear that only the Baptised can gain entry to Heaven. Therefore, you made it clear that the Unbaptised [including myself] will be forever barred entry.

4. Would you get mad if somebody told you that you were going to Hell for not blindly believeing everything you were told as a child? Well, I suppose the situation wouldn't arise for you, would it...

5. Yes.

6. Nobody mentioned Evolution. This is a debate about Hell, and YOU are the first person to bring up Evolution. Don't try and change the subject.

7. No, but it might possibly make YOU a better person, since it would stop all this Fundamentalist bullshit.

8. I can't argue with someone who does not exist. If you can introduce me to God, then maybe I will argue with him. Not before.

9. That's rich coming from you.

10. No it isn't. Your choice is to follow what has been attributed to God. There is absolutely no evidence that God had anything to do with the Bible. He probably doesn't even own the copyright...

1. Whatever

2.Yes, I chose to believe in it. Got a problem with that? Not like I have'nt said that before. Who said I was not taking resposibility for what I am saying? I don't want to be atheist.

3. It said that in the bible and it stated clear that was just. SO don't argue with me about it.


4. Huh, like that would happen. Believing in the bible is not blindly. You would'nt know anyways.

5. yeah

6. I was talking about the other topics playboy. Read next time.

7. No, but you think you are right all the time whic makes me think that you think that you are the better person adn you know what is right.

8. I'm not going to argue over some crap, that God does not exist. How can you prove that he does'nt? I guess you can't.

9. Your suppose to be the smart one?

10. Um, yes it is. You don't know what you are talking about. There's evidence that God wrote the bible. Proves how much you know about Christianity. Or your just saying that because you have nothing else to say.