The Fuck?
 

Why did the grinder burp in the bad ending?

Well, when a man loves a woman, a special bond is formed see. And with this bond, both the male and female tend to partake in a certain "dance" son. This dance involves a grinder, a small detention room and a few aliens. But cutting a long lustful story short, dropping the meat into the grind hole/pipe can cause a reflux of giblets to get stuck and make a popping/blarping sound. Much like childbirth. And that JG, is where burps come from.


But to the point, the sound effect detracts from the dark scene as a bit of a comedic relief to ease the tension as the scene fades out.

Comedic relieves don't excuse nonsense

I see the game is really goofied all the way. On the other hand, it sort of burped in the original. But it was subtle. NnT doesn't really know the word, as far as I can tell from what I've seen

I assumed it was the abrupt release of all the methane Abe had collected to fart at-will.

There was certain thing that interupted Mullock and the slig in the original but I could never tell what it was. I agree with Varrok though, this game does not know the word subtle. I hope JAW picks up a dictionary and looks up the word before working on Twice ze Flavour.

Clearly, they've made some poor choices that diminish immersion. Hopefully, they will learn from their mistakes.

I wonder what they thought the fans meant when they said they hated all the cartoony sounds from MO.

@Havoc: Except that AE's atmosphere is much like N'n'T's, and unlike AO, there wasn't much subtle about it. If JAW keep a similar atmosphere for an AE remake, it'd probably fit it better.

I think it was Holy Sock who implied earlier that maybe AO's atmosphere came off darker and less goofy than Lorne meant it to be because stuff really wasn't as defined back then.

Yeah, sure. No. I really doubt it.

That they were not funny and goofy enough.

In my opinion the atmosphere in AE was still better and more subtle with its humor than NnT. I think that has largely to do with the way characters in a scene are animated. A scene can be animated realistically and still be funny. But then MO came around and they went overboard with the goofy animations even in the cutscenes. The cutscenes with the Mudokons 'zipping' away after Abe and Munch fall from Vyker's labs comes to mind in particular. That's the kind of thing I personally hated. But unfortunately it was that exact thing that was brought back in the intro of NnT with Abe's overly cartoony response to a horrible discovery.

Aside from that, there's also the addition of new voice lines and pitches. In AO there was a static 'hello' and 'follow me'. And the sligs didn't speak at all aside from the occasional 'what'. No sense of humor in those lines at all and it kept the whole experience fairly dark and serious. Which IMO wasn't a bad thing.
Now we have all sorts of funny and cheery lines to replace 'hello' and 'okay' and the sligs just talk like there's no tomorrow. That's also one of the things that ruins the atmosphere, at least for me. Did so back in MO, does so right now in NnT. The stockyards especially would have been much more 'intimidating' if the sligs weren't constantly yapping.

It's not to say I agree with it - Personally I wish modern Oddworld was less goofy, and also feel that the characters yap on way too frequently now. I mean you're right, AE was goofy in its cutscenes but still had mostly serious gameplay, rather than expose the player to goofyness constantly - I'd be happy if they changed that in subsequent games, but I guess that's what it is now. *shrug* N'n'T still looks very good and it's only a minor nitpick in the end.

Has anyone from OWI or JAW addressed this, actually? I know it's been brought up before.

So I just watched the bad engine from AO, and yeah, I have noticed the very subtle burp, but I don't even think it sounds like a burp, to me it just sounds like Abe being churned up.

I loved the new lines, for me it didn't change Oddworld at all, it just gave more life into the characters and made it more funnier.

Addressed what?

Probably the tone change and why type thing

At least, that's what I'm assuming

Yeah, nitpicking N'n'T's goofy tone vs dark tone balance - Oddworld's always been a bit goofy 'cause that's what it is, but perhaps some of us feel N'n'T leans too much on being that, for example: Exaggerated animations/character movements in the cutscenes whereas the old movements were a bit more subtle, Abe falling over at the end of the Shrykul scene, characters constantly talking during gameplay (I love the new dialogues but think maybe they should speak their idle chatter a little less frequently) the burping meat grinder, etc

But I've noticed that it's only the people who started with AO back in the day like me who are complaining about this (also in previous topics, not just this one). Maybe it isn't that important. This stuff won't affect/hasn't affected my enjoyment of N'n'T very much.

E: In fact I don't have many other criticisms of what I've seen of N'n'T, only more tiny nitpicks. :)

I noticed it too, and I do agree that the cartoony reaction and the Japanese/AE Mudokon Pop design took a little bit of shock out of the reveal. I can understand the Mudokon Pops' AE design being more in line with the other Rupture Farms advertisements, but the gruesome Mudokon head really helped set the stage for the dark tone of Oddysee.

I see both sides of this argument. One one hand, I really do like that the Sligs use a lot of slang to really reinforce how immersed they are in popular culture and media for most of their lives. Mudokons on the other hand are only exposed to whatever media is fed to them via their cage monitors.

On the other hand, it does detract from how intimidating they ought to be in some situations. I think some context-based dialogue behavior would be nice (but not necessary at all) if possible. For example, areas where the Sligs know Abe is around, (like Stockyards/Free-fire zone/Return to Rupture Farms) they could be a bit more quiet and alert, whereas a couple bored Sligs out in Scrabania could just be passing the time, shooting the shit.

As far as the Mudokons' voices go, I think they could do without idle chat among each other. That kind of behavior should probably warrant beatings from the Sligs. The variety of their gamespeak voices adds a lot in my opinion though. It makes it seem a bit more like each Mudokon is an individual.

I think a lot of people were expecting a closer match in lighting and color to Abe's Oddysee instead of the dream-like, colorful New n Tasty. I personally don't have a problem with that aspect though, apart from being a tiny bit let down that the silhouettes weren't as stark in the free-fire zone. Other than that, it just seems like that's how Abe himself remembered everything looking.

Actually I get the impression AO is how Abe saw everything while NNT is more someone looking in and seeing how everything actually was.

I went on a whole tangent about it in that wonderful reboot thread

Now that you mention it, I could see it either way. Really, I'm glad we have both options. A New n Tasty closer matching these visuals would have interesting:


But I really love how the finished product looks.

I think my heart went out of picking holes in NnT after they changed the bird portals. That was the only real sticking point for me.

I'll be honest, I don't mind.

It is obvious that there is quite a degree of departure from the original game. Just the opening reveals as much, with a much more yellow and vibrant looking Rupture Farms than the desolate gray beast that the first game featured. I don't know if I consider the game better or worse for that, but I think there's something to be said for having a much lighter atmosphere, in the interest of separating it from the original.

I don't know why the grinder burps though. I didn't notice it when I first watched the bad ending; I just assumed it was an odd sound effect of the meat grinder suddenly getting stuck.

Gotcha.

I think that's more for ONNT's art team (and Lorne too, as he art directed the game) and probably for a blog article in the future.

That said, I think if you're looking for a slightly more grim environment, keep an eye out for Alf's Escape...

If we kill Alf, does that mean we get a brand new ending for AE and that the Alf section of the OWI website will be shut down?

What wrong with the bird portals? To me they looked exactly like the ones out of MO, I love the portals that nnt has in the final build, but I didn't see anything wrong with the old ones.

Somehow I think those dream-like colors is what makes NnT so goddamn beautiful. There is not a single moment in the game that is not beautiful, well at least I did not encounter any during my play trough. Everything looks alive and it just pops!

Going with a more dark and realistic approach would have resulted in a nice looking game but probably not as breathtaking. And that would really have been a shame. Especially as you see that most reviews really underlined how nice the game looked.

Can't wait to see this.

It looks fantastic, I think it was appropriate to make the native environments look as pretty as possible, and they really do look beautiful, with rupturefarms, I think they absolutely nailed it, seeing things such as hunks of meat moving around and seeing creatures in cages still alive, it almost tugged at my heart strings seeing scrabs and paramites in cages on conveyor belts knowing that they are about to be killed, nnt for me made me feel more sorry for the creatures than AO did. I have no doubt though that nnt is the game Lanning wanted to create in 1997/

Yup. He's said as much.

Honestly, though, does no one remember the handful of goofy noises in AE? I mean the Glukkon's musical walking, the ring of the register when that Flying Slig spots Abe and says "Promotion here I come!"

Do you guys not remember the silly sound effects when Abe fell down the cliff in Abe's Oddysee?

There may be a few cartoonish sound effects but people are acting like they've turned the entire game into this:



Okay, I can sympathise a bit. MO took it too far and I guess any added sound effects may rub fans the wrong way. But it's like some sort of moral panic.

That's entirely different case. The pacing was much better, and grim dark games actually profit from a few small comical relieves. (Breaking bad, for example did it right, the Ted scene was incredibly stupid, and yet completely unexpected. It worked.)

Well, I was talking about the cartoonish sound effects edited into that Ted scene video. Not the Ted scene itself because it's perfect.

What I'm getting here is that the burp sound in the original wasn't all that audible so when they made it more audible in NnT it stands out, feels wrong, doesn't seem to fit. Since we've spent 17 years seeing that scene in a very particular way. And the guys as JAW probably didn't know that we didn't know. The burping doesn't seem at all to be an example of moving the game further and further down the goofy void. But just making a sound effect actually noticeable.

A burping grinder doesn't really seem to be a matter of subtlety.

I mean if the roles were reversed, the burp was really noticeable in the original and the cliff sound effects weren't really noticeable I imagine you'd see the same complaint.

I can accept the argument that you like the less noticeable version of the original better but the idea that the burp is absolute nonsense and proving that NnT is close to MO reborn seems a bit silly to me.

The Glukkons' xylophone toes are perfect and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise

They were incongruously soft and fluffy in a (colourful or not) grim, angry game; especially for something that represents a kind of animalistic rebellion.

It wasn't even about me disagreeing with JAW's vision - the "softer" look was a concession to legible gameplay, and speaking as a player, I'd rather they found a new balance and made the
game look like Oddworld. Which they did! So no complaints here.

I was also strangely disappointed when they removed the musical Glukk walk in Munch HD. but I was very glad they replaced Munch's bouncing noises.

Well I'm glad Lorne is happy. Because that's all that matters.

Really, I was surprised that some people were using "cartoony" to describe New n Tasty, and even were comparing its cartoony-ness with Munch's Oddysee. The only thing in New n Tasty that really differed from the Oddysee formula was that the environments' lighting and coloring were generally more hopeful feeling. Maybe the lightened mood made the goofiness of a lot of the scenes a little too goofy for some, but the Munch's comparison never crossed my mind.

Exactly! Really the only problem I had with cartoony-ness in Oddworld were with how some things looked in Munch's Oddysee. The sound design has always been goofy like that, but the grittiness and dark atmosphere counterbalanced that perfectly in Abe's games. Munch's just tipped the scales a bit toward the cartoony side.

I don't know, man, I think the end of that scene screamed "Oddworld". The second that Abe thinks he's cool, he gets knocked down a peg by the universe. It was perfect IMO.

That's how I feel. If the game tried to completely recreate the lighting and colors of the original, we wouldn't get screens like this

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/m...hd_22_605x.jpg

I don't know, I think it's good that they look that way. They're a ray of hope in an otherwise hopeless existence for the Mudokon slaves.

I know this is a wee bit tongue-in-cheek but surely that's how it should always be Connell? Although creatives always know where they could have improved on a project the leads of any game should always be happy with the final product. They should make something they're proud of and hope people react positively.

And with NnT it seems 80% of that is positive. 10% are bugs/not liking the game and the other 10 are fans splitting hairs like we constantly do on OWF.

I'm also a statistician so don't question the analysis.

I will say that while what a lot of people on this forum do can be very fairly called splitting hairs, the breaking of immersion is not a hair. That's a pretty big problem for a game that attempts to create a living, breathing world.

But is increasing the audibility of a burping sound effect in the bad ending, which Lorne or JAW or whoever probably didn't know that we had no idea what sound that was, really a huge example of JAW breaking the immersion of the series? Or that JAW may not taking Oddworld down a path that will somewhat betray the tone of the series like many felt MO did?

I mean for something like rerecording a clearer burp sound file, or Abe sticking his finger in hismouth a little comically after discovering Mudokon Pops, JAW have also been the guys who removed those annoying sound effects from Munch, and replaced the most blatantly cartoonish moment in AO with a relatively darker counterpart (Abe hitting his head on the conveyor belt like a Loony Tunes character to being caught between a Scrab and another Scrab).

I do like the new cut scene as it really does give you a little insight into how the stock yards actually operates, but the old one wasn't really that cartoony either.

Sure, the initial BONK on the head may have been silly, but I think that adds to the chilling feeling you get as his barrel passes the two Slig guards. If he hadn't hit his head on that pipe, he would've been dead for sure, and that's the thing that actually stuck for me in that particular cutscene.

It was the pose Abe struck which I was referring to, really.

EDIT: And really, all we're really talking about, in this thread, are small moments in the midst of the darker story. Surely the burping noise in the bad ending, then, is similar to Abe's comically convenient head bang.

I see. I can understand the complaints, I suppose. The only one I remotely have an issue with is his overly-comical reaction to Mudokon Pops. I feel they nailed his reaction perfectly in AO. Abe's reaction is kind of haunting rather than comical.

The only reason that one is even an issue with me, is that I feel that is really the first reveal of just how dark this universe is. It's a very important moment to get right, in the interest of setting the tone for the rest of the story.

I'm thinking that this, combined with the in-game adverts, is the problem. A burping sound alone is just kind of silly. When put on top of something that is completely 4th wall breaking it becomes fuel for the fire.

Well I don't know about the in game ads. I mean I find secret areas 4th wall breaking anyway so having things that break the fourth wall in secret areas don't break immersion for me personally. Since entering secret areas is essentially diverting from the flow and thrust of the game's story to do extra puzzles. I mean it wouldn't be different to me if, in one of the secret areas, we saw graffiti of all the members of JAW or something like that.

So I suppose I can't really empathise there.

The impression I get is that people are very much used to the comedy in specific moments. So adding a bit of comedy in other places can stand out negatively. The more stylised and brighter look of the game may also make it harder to accept.

So, speaking of fourth wall breaking, what are people's general thoughts on stuff like the LED screens made by Rupture Farms telling you how to rescue mudokons or the big sign that warns you that "If you escape, all 28 workers on this level die"?