MOD EDIT: This thread was split off from here.

Let's not turn this into a discussion about the ethics of pirating. Every single one of us is a hypocrite on this issue in some way or another.

Except me.

Your youtube history almost certainly says otherwise.

Watching videos of music I already own isn't piracy.

I'm torrenting Peep Show series 5, 6 and 7 as we speak. Nothing wrong with it, I might buy the DVD's, I have seasons 1-4 already on DVD.

WRONG ANSWER, DUMBASS!

No good pictures of Mr. Garrison. But yeah, that's really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really stupid.

You do know you can watch Peep Show on both 4oD and Youtube?

Nepsotic is so edgy, he doesn't give a fuck.

Calm down. It doesn't make a difference wheather I torrent it or not. When did everyone get so defensive over torrenting?

Since we proved that it was a silly thing to do...

You're right. It just calls your ethics into question.

So you've never done anything bad?

Are we really having this discussion? This is all you need to know.

+ Most people do it, to call someone out over it is fucking banal.
+ It is wrong, you're denying people who worked hard to make something of the money they deserve.

Now move the fuck on.

Apart from OANST, no-one's really going to judge you for being a pirate (unless you're the cut-throat/pillaging/rapist kind, in which case we might). It's just the belief that there's nothing wrong with it that I don't like. There is.

You're stealing from people who put effort into making something for paying customers to enjoy. You can justify it to yourself all you want, and your reasons would probably be no worse than mine, but really? You should just be aware that you're doing something bad. It might inspire you to be a better person in other ways.

EDIT: STM is a speedy shit

My issue with it is actually very similar to MM's. Just be honest about it, for fuck's sake. You're doing something unethical. Admit it to yourself.

I am not a considered audience for (almost) everything I pirate. Artists, writers and directors I pirate from, not to mention executives and publishers, get free word of mouth advertising without losing any hypothetical revenue. I make sure to promote what I like to my friends and on the internet in an attempt to give something back to the creators.

Does it justify my piracy? No
Am I harming the creators? I believe not

Wouldn't the possibility of you liking it mean that you are a considered audience? Or is your point that it's not commercially available to you? Because in that case, I don't really see a problem with it. I say, pay for it if they'll let you. If they won't, enjoy it for free. It's not your fault they won't take your money.

What WoF said. Fair enough, I know its wrong, but why? I am just 1 tiny person!

Also I don't know why I spelt whether wrong in my last post.

Okaaaaaay. You just said that you knew it was wrong, and then said that you don't know it's wrong.

It's wrong because it's theft. It's wrong because you are taking an experience that was painstakingly crafted without paying for it, when the person who made it is clearly saying "This is how much I think this experience is worth".

Any further confusion on your part will prove that you are amoral.

I was a good kid now I'm a good, productive member of society. Unlike you slovenly wastrels.

The loophole counter-argument would be that I'm morally obliged to import the DVDs from Japan if I watch it fansubbed online, sort of like you and listening to music you already own on youtube. That would set me back over three hundred pounds a month given the series I burn through.

So I can't really support my own argument

Therefore I have to be honest about being a bad person

Something like 'I am a bad kid, since the age of 17 I have pirated roughly £45,000 worth of media from Japanese publishers.'

Marika would be proud.

I still think that the fact that it's not available to you in your own region lifts the cloudy murk of badness a great deal. Exorbitant prices are somewhat akin to price gouging, and I'm all for ripping off people who price gouge.

I used to pirate things a bit. I thought it was great. Then, as I recall it, I spontaneously realised in the space of about five minutes how dickish it was. Now I get annoyed at people with the same attitude I used to have, which I suppose is a bit unfair...

I rarely torrent anything because I know it is wrong, it's stealing and usually I can afford what I plan to torrent. Plus there is that fact that you could get a deadly virus on your PC which is not fun.

However if it's some software that's so overpriced (let's say After Effects and it's £1,000) then hell yeah I'll torrent it. Yes; call me a bad person but yeah, you've all done it too. It's a bit like Porn isn't it

Things that I think you should NEVER torrent is anything Indie. If you've torrent a Indie Game, fuck you and go die somewhere.

That's an outdated information. It almost never happens (at least to me) now, unless you're using really untrustful (by piracy websites standard) sources

Torrents are just a way of sharing files. Not everything torrented is illegal and not everything illegal is torrented.

I agree with this.

My stance on piracy isn't completely against it, but I do like to think I have a limit to what I do. I download video game music, usually because to buy it I'd have to pay expensive import prices (which is just shit for Final Fantasy soundtracks). I do however pay for music from bands though. I sort of think bands are making their money solely on their music, whereas game developers are making it mostly on the game, so if their music is pirated it wouldn't particularly affect them that much. That is probably poor justification for what I do, I admit it's wrong and some day I hope to buy the music.

When it comes to films I very rarely pirate or torrent them. If I want to see a film I'll either watch it on Netflix/TV or I'll buy it. I get satisfaction knowing I paid for it and it's sitting on my shelf in a box.

I just torrent films to try them out. If I really like it,I'll buy it. Not Doctor Who though, I would never torrent it, because I just like having the official release. And if for some reason I can't buy a DW DVD, I will torrent it, and then delete the episode once I've bought it.

Music, though, yeah. Only because I rarely download music. Once I've got it, I've got it And I'll listen to that for about a year. I only download a track if I've heard it somewhere and really like it.

The only reason I torrent things is because I phisically can't buy stuff off the internet.


I torrented Portal, even though I had it on the Orange Box, but only so I could do things that you can't on the orange box, like noclip mode and other cheats, same with AE and AO, I had them on PS1 and PSP, but I wanted to use DDcheat. The only game I've truly torrented is PvZ.

I don't try to justify pirating shit to myself. If I do it I just accept that I'm doing the wrong thing.

I rarely pirate tings anymore. The last game I pirated was Captain Comic 2, which you can't even buy anymore.

e: Some of the music we get given from the music teachers are school to study is of questionable legality, but most of the time they do the right thing.

Please, guys.

I don't want to repeat myself so I'll phrase it a little differently this time: there's nothing wrong with torrenting.

"Torrent" is not synonymous with "pirate".

Crashpunk says you should never torrent an indie game, but the Humble Bundles have official torrents. Would he not use those?

Yeah, but you know what we mean. Illegal torrenting. And we're not going to say that every time we refer to it, are we?

I have watched one metric fucktonne of clips of things on YouTube.
I have pirated 1 Japanese movie.
I have pirated 0 TV shows.
I have pirated 2 music albums that I had previously owned but lost the CDs for (the only true justification for piracy in my eyes).
I have probably ripped about 30 individual songs from YouTube videos.
I have pirated about 3 or 4 video games, which is basically out of spite against the industry...

... Nobody makes demos anymore, because either they don't like the idea of spending time making something that's free, or they know that their game sucks. Well, trailers won't cut it with me, I'm afraid. Films have trailers, games have demos. Okay, demos are unbalanced anyway, I know that. But as a studio, that's your chance to impress me, take it or leave it.

Most of the time I'll just forget about it, but if the game looks really interesting, I'll pirate it, under a silent promise between me and adjacent items of furniture: "If I enjoy this game, I will pay full price for a legal version. If I do not, then there is no way I would have bought a copy if I'd known what the game was actually like, so the studio shouldn't have my money. Either way, I will delete the pirated version."

That's my 'demo'. So far I've had no problems keeping to that agreement. I think I bought 3 of the games and deleted the other 2 (which were buggy piece-o'-shit console ports).

Am I bad person? From a "theft is bad" standpoint, yes, yes I am. It's easy to criticise people's excuses, but everything seems much more reasonable when you have to apply it to yourself.

What Nep said. I'm talking about the torrents that are obviously illegal to download.

And you make a good point about the Humble Pack there Ench, I would use it.

I don't understand this logic. You don't 'try' out movies or films.. Once you've watched it, you've watched. There's nothing less to try. Whether it was bad or good, you're still morally wrong to not have paid for it.

I could maybe understand this logic with games that have no demos.


I don't pirate games anymore unless they are abandoned games and the original creators don't get profit from it. But I like buying games ^^ Specially physically. I should really stop giving in to the convenience of steam. I love having the game boxes on display.

As for the rest... I usually buy when I can >_< I'm the "I'll pay for it later" kind of person. But as it turns out that's not always the case :( Bad Nikki!

Oh.. when it comes to movies, my morals really go in the dumpster.

Does anyone really care that much though? When I download something illegally, which is quite a rare occurrence to be fair to myself, I don't really feel anything, but then I don't download much because I'll watch or listen on Youtube. The last thing I watched illegally, at least, I presume illegally, was Elfen Lied on Youtube, but the person I was watching with already had a copy, I just wasn't able to get to her to see it, but if I could have, I would have watched it for free, that's my shitty justification, not that I need one. If I want to do it I will, pretty much guilt free. Life's too short.

I go on the paradigm of: if its free, go for it. I mean, I'd rather not pay for something, unless its higher quality.
Basically I just don't have any money to spend.

Exactly, justify it however you like, but if I want something, and I can get it without trouble and without causing someone direct harm, I'll take it. Within reason, I suppose.

I'll just say that if karma exists, there's some bad shit coming my way.

Heh, I've convinced myself karma will fuck me up for the things I do, but really it's just the law of statistics isn't it? You do something bad and eventually, something bad is going to happen to you, then you might just apply the causation of that being that you did something bad. Hrmm, that really doesn't make much sense typed out.