UK General Election thread
 

What the BNP plan to do

• Deport foreigners convicted of crimes in Britain, regardless of immigration status, ban the burka and building of mosques. Deport radical Islamist preachers
• Increase UK Border Agency funding, withdraw from EU, repeal Race Relations Act and scrap Equalities and Human Rights Commission. Scrap ID cards
• Review the Police and Criminal Evidence Act to remove unnecessary bureaucracy from police duties
• Reintroduce capital punishment for drug dealers, child murderers, multiple murderers, murderers of policemen on duty and terrorists
• Reintroduce right of householders to defend themselves and their property, "using whatever means they deem necessary"
• Establish penal station for "extremely dangerous/violent repeat criminals", including rapists, on the British island of South Georgia

Meanwhile the Scottish National Party claim that British politicians need to realize that Britain is made up of four countries, not one.

What about those election debates then?

Old Labour died with Europop, so I'm rooting for Cleggy this year. Or Alan "Howlin' Laud" Hope.

Clegg sounds nice, although he already has his internet backlash. Apparently people only support him because it's cool.

i've been doing a bit of reading up on the web, and watched the news more than usual to decide who to vote for. i decided this morning that i'm gonna vote Clegg.

otherwise it would have been the Monster Raving Loony Party. :tard:

I think we might be the same person. Or multis of each other.

oh yeah, i forgot that was his name.

That's what the BNP are planning to do? Hello vote.

Oh wait. I can't fucking vote.

Lol, wow, Shaman fucking sucks balls.

If that dreadful party has actually gained some substantial ground, then I am no longer ashamed to come from the country where the Ku Klux Klan originated.

Oh come now, i was being facetious.

I agree with Used. Shaman's support of the BNP sickens me. The only reason they're gaining a little bit of popularity among some people is because of the state Labour's got us into. The BNP are fucking shithouses.

EDIT: Shaman beat me.

Who says I was referring to your post? ;)

Oh alright then. Glad we understand each other.

I support this, actually. Though the phrasing is a bit weird in this case.

You support banning the creation of new places of worship?

Shame Lord Much is dead!

I don't like religion, but that has nothing to do with this particular case. I think that the position of Islam in Europe is taking rather weird and sometimes even dangerous forms.

For one the entire Islamic culture is starting to take over the native cultures of European countries (there is a very similar problem over here in the Netherlands). When politicians start thinking about making Arabic a standard taught language next to English and German in pre- and high-school, that is where I draw the line. I've been seeing a disturbing trend with many countries where the host country has to adapt to the guests it provides shelter for. It's supposed to be the other way around.

Secondly, there is a very real problem of extremist preachers in Mosques. We've got a few over here as well but for some reason they can't be arrested for it. Apparently it's fine to ask your followers to kill everyone who was born in the western world. Not saying that's a reason not to build more Mosques, but there should at least be the option to close one down if there are messages like this being proclaimed there.

Ban them and there mosques lest er I mean unless they have a degree

I don't understand why any of this is a problem.

Just as i suspected.

What's so wrong with having to learn Arabic?
What's so wrong about respecting the practices of our neighbors?
What's so important and rigid about our culture?

Absolutely nothing, but it is a point of principle. It seems to me that these neighbours don't give a damn about our own customs and what have you, and I feel that if our culture is shit and meaningless, so is their culture. At the end of the day, the people who are arguing against the catering of these foreigners are just trying to protect their way of life. They feel threatened by the fact that these people are coming over here and are reproducing, thus increasing the amount of people who live slightly differently to themselves. In reality, neither culture is going to be greater than the other. There will merely be an alternative, but I can understand that people feel their culture strongly influences the way that they live, and so wish to protect what they are familiar with.

I knew the BNP were bad, but FUCK, that's some nasty stuff.

Like what OddjobAbe said, it's a matter of principle over anything else. When you move away from your own country and you settle down in a completely different country it's only natural that you try and adapt yourself to the customs and standards of that country. The very last thing you should demand from the country that was nice enough to take you in is that they change everything to fit your needs.

Don't get me wrong, all those things are fine on their own.

There's nothing wrong with learning Arabic on your own initiative. But it is wrong if your government wants to make it a standard because the foreigners who came here 12 years ago simply refuse to learn the native language. Visitors adapt to the place they visit, not the other way around.

And in the specific case of Islam I don't think I want to respect their practices. It may be normal in Iran or where-ever that you use your wife as a slave all day long and order her around like a dog and treat her as such, but in the western world we actually have such a thing as human rights. When I hear about Islamic men refusing to shake hands with women and then complaining about how they can't find a job at a legal firm, I don't exactly feel sympathy for those people.

So yeah, it's principle. That doesn't mean one should leave his entire religion behind, but when things do start to bump heads it's the visitor who should adapt. If he doesn't like how things go in the country where he is a guest he's free to leave. Until then he should adapt.

I agree with pretty much everthing in Havoc's post.

this is the only problem i have. French was bad enough. fuck language.

I agree with a lot of what Havoc says, however I'll say this: I am willing to respect Islamic practices provided they aren't infringing on peoples human rights. Which is whhy I dislike the burka. The hajib is a part of their religion and I have zero problem with Islamic women wearing one if they choose, but the Burka isn't required by the Qur'an, and is just a symbol of the female discrimination that has lingered in elements of Islamic culture.

When I go to Spain on holiday I make an effort to speak Spanish as much as possible: it's their country & culture so I should respect their customs. I hate going to the "English ghetto" type places (Note: when I use the term ghetto I mean it as a concentration of a particular ethnicity, not as a poor/run down area),where you get all this chavvish culture and little actual Spanish culture. You put the customs of your host first, not the other way round. When in Rome and all that. A perfect example is a friend of mine who recently informed me he was Islamic. He doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, I think he might attend the mosque, and he might know Arabic (I've only ever heard him speak English, however). However he never tries to impose his faith on others: he's a perfect example of how its fully compatible to be Islamic AND western British. If you're religious then that is great, but there's no need to impose your faith onto others, whatever your religion. Just to answer Joe's post:
1- Nothing wrong with learning Arabic if you choose to. But the guest follows the host's customs first, not the other way round. Suppose I was at a friend's house and he was drinking beer, and I say "Hey, you've got to drink this too" and try to make him drink some wine, that's not fair on him. However if I go "Want to try this?" and he accepts, then all's well. Common courtesy to your host.
2-Absolutely nothing at all, but respecting your neighbour's practices doesn't mean having to adopt their practices in place of your own.
3-Nothing but by the samme token what's so important and rigid about THEIRS? I've noticed a trend in society recently that seems to be of a "You arent important but everyone different is" mentality. I saw an article in a papeer where the columnist was labelling white British people as lazy, alcoholic, theiving scroungers, and all immigrants as saints. If that had been the other way round it would be banned. I've got absolutely zero problem with any other cultures comnig to Britain provided they're willing to integrate. If they respect our traditions and don't try to infringe, I'll completely respect theirs and won't infringe either.

I firmly disagree with banning the building of mosques- they have every right to worship. Also, on deporting radical preachers: that depends whether all radical preachers are going to be stopped or just the Islamic ones. If the latter then that's not exactly fair. I don't want to hear them spouting such inflammtory extremism, but you can't ban them and then still allow radical Christian puritans, say, to also spread intolerance.

Capital punishment I feel has its merits but also its major disadvantages. You can't just apply it to a crime category, you've got to look at individual cases. Harold Shipman for instance was a complete monster, however a guy who murders someone because they'd I dunno, pickpocketed him or nicked his missus- while it's still a dreadful act, isn't really on the same level. And I don't know about giving it to drug dealers-would it be just the crime lords, or would it be to Johnny Marijuana who flogs a few joints on the weekend too? As for terrorism, if you execute them you just create a martyr for their cause. It's no coincidence that they use suicide bombings. As for a penal station....eh, I'm not so sure. We're overcrowded here sure, but again I'm just concerned about the selection criteria and specific details.

I'd never vote BNP for 3 reasons: 1) I think several policies go too far, and several aren't outlined clearly 2) I don't trust Nick Griffin at alll and would be very concerned that he would become more radical if in power, and 3) Even if the BNP did tone things down, cut out the objectionable policies and replace Nick Griffin, the stigma of them being a racist party won't go away and a vote with them associates you with all kinds of unpleasant people.

I'm torn between voting Conservative & voting Green Party. 2 very different parties I know. I have no interest in voting Labour, while I like elements of the Lib Dems (Mostly Vince Cable & repealing the Digital Economy bill), I have issue with more of their policies than with Green or Tory. Green will never get in though, so I'm unsure what to do.

Never intended this post to last so long. I'm done now, I think.

Islamic culture != Quoran. See later point about catching more flies with honey than vinegar.
If a lot of people in your country speak Arabic as a first language then it's only a sign of the times that schools should consider putting them in the curriculum. Frankly it's far more important and necessary to learn as a foriegn language than French or German.
If you were a guest in my house then I would do my best to understand and respect what you do and how you behave, if you were living in my house then even more so. It's my responsibility as a host who invited you in to look after you the best I can.
Ever heard the fable of the North Wind and the Sun? Right now Islam is towing a reactionary defensive line. The best way to make them accept us is for us first to accept them.

You haven't answered the question. Would you or would you not forsake the other inhabitants of your house whose ways are similar to yours for the sake of a minority?

I'm not saying they should "like it or lump it" We should be a comforting as possible for them without harming other people's culture. But if you want to talk about acceptance, it must work both ways. So, i will ask you again. Would you agree with the displacement of one people's way of life for the sake of a minority visitor?

I'd compromise. I'd let them do as they please in my house as long as it doesn't hurt the other inhabitants.

Welcome to my list of favorite people. How does it feel? Dirty all over?

Also, who are you? And what have you done with WoF?

Maybe not but the culture was originally built around the Qur'an, only t be distorted by priests-much as happened with Christian society. I'd rather not encourage the aspects of Islamic culture that discriminate against women. Women eating the leftovers of a meal is another one I strongly object too, especially when they're the ones who've cooked it. There's a number of Muslims I know who don't subscribe to this behaviour- heck a woman who works with my dad, while she is Islamic, refuses to wear a hajib or attend the mosque due to the discriminatory practices involved. And what happens? A number of her husband's Muslim colleagues tend to ignore her because she's not what they call a "good Muslim" ie. a female servant. If we're trying to stop discrimination surely we should spread messages encouraging it to stop, not stand by and hope they change their minds. The numerous Anti Racism, Anti Homophobia, Anti-Disability Discrimination etc. committees that exist are encouraged and promote acceptance of other cultures, but there aren't similar committes that seek to preserve our own culture in the same way, or promote stopping the discriminatory practices of Islamic culture. It seems to be almost an "Everyone can be promote their own culture but us/Others can be intolerant but we must accept everything of theirs" mentality, wherein the "us" is the more traditional british culture. Im not asking that we be allowed to be intolerant- just that similar intolerance from other groups is also cut out.

How many do speak it as a first language though? While I agree it's worth consideration I don't believe it should be mandatory, just another language option. German was never even on my curriculum while French & Spanish were semi-optional- we took French up to a certain age, did 1 year of Spanish, then could choose whether to do 1, both, or neither. I always believe it should be the choice of the individual, and that the first language of a nation should be geared towards the native language, but that any other languages spoken in the country should be available as options.

Absolutely but you didn't address my analogy. Not perfect I know but my point is- yes, understand and respect your guest but you shouldn't solely cater to them in place of the other residents.

i have now and I'm still not convinced its reactionary & defensive, and not just more a case of "We want to come here but carry on as before." I'm accepting of them provided they don't try to infringe on me.

As I said to you before, it's a shame we aren't all pacifist Buddhists. Things would work much better then.

Ignore the first 30 seconds; he gets on topic after that.

The vid says "Sorry, Videos are not currently available in your country" (UK), can you give us the jist?

It's a comical review of the UK elections. Pointing out a 90's stage, 80's stage and making fun of the UK in general.

Well, if you watched only the first minute, yes. After that it's taking the piss out of American politics more than British.

Well yeah both. But was that actual footage of the real debate, btw? Or just some old thing they put in there as a joke?

Daily Show doesn't typically make funny recreations of events. They just mock the real ones.

Gordon Brown says little old lady is a biggot, country is thrown into turmoil.

I can't believe they made such a fuss over that.

I like how the question 'Was the little old lady actually biggoted?' will never even be considered.

I'd vote in a politician who actually spoke his fucking mind on certain issues.